• Announcements

    • B2K

      Forum Upgrade - 7 Jun.   06/01/2020

      The initial phase of the forum updating has been completed.  We will now be moving onto Phase II: Software update:   The current forum software is in need up an update to current version.  We have been testing the newer version, and are ready to update our live forums.    Themes: The Current WWIIOL Theme will be retired as part of the forum update.  It is non-compatible with the newer forum software.  A new WWIIOL Theme will be added after upgrade (as part of the upgade if everything goes smooth).   Once the update is completed the forums should look the same, but perform significantly better.   We will also be able to potentially expand functionality to include features and add-ons that are not available with our current version of the forum software.   There will be a few hours of downtime beginning on 7 Jun in the the early evening Server Time. 
kgarner

Spawn delay 30+ secs?

110 posts in this topic

Interesting idea. I wonder if a SD could be used to make the number if infantry in play in a given AO/Do roughly mimic their appropriate numbers (~1 in 10 a SMG/LMG, the rest rifles).

Still it would not solve the issue that SD is meant to address, population imbalance.

I still say that depot/MSP spawning should be limited to the relative balance of units attacking vs defending a given AO.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, shagher said:

Can we free Riflemen from SD at least? So then you have the option to still play??? I insist SD is against players game enjoyment, Allie or Axis. 

And if it is noted it affects a side more than the other then it should absolutely be reduced. 

S!

I know it is, no need to preach to the choir on the adverse effect. However the worser of the two evils is to not have it (it is defined balance of some sort, even if that means an imbalance in numbers but a balance in avoiding a roll against the under populated side).

Freeing Rifleman from Spawn Delay would counter many who argue for Free Players (predominately Rifleman) from being forced to participate in the act of spawn delay. Some even suggest highly that they should be forced to the underpopulated side as a way for the game to balance itself without impacting paying users.

Cause and effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, XOOM said:

Freeing Rifleman from Spawn Delay would counter many who argue for Free Players (predominately Rifleman) from being forced to participate in the act of spawn delay.

Seems as if the marketing logic would be that subscribers...paying customers...would get less, or maybe no, spawn delay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, jwilly said:

Seems as if the marketing logic would be that subscribers...paying customers...would get less, or maybe no, spawn delay.

Keeping a healthy balanced game play experience takes precedence. Otherwise the rest of it goes out the window and becomes difficult.

Undoubtedly, if such a thing was to be considered, such as force pushing traffic to the underpopulated side, paying subscribers would be exempt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/6/2019 at 11:02 PM, XOOM said:

As you know, the spawn Delay maximum has indeed gone up to 30 seconds. When you achieve 30 seconds, it is under worst possible conditions. The unwillingness for side balance to occur through other measures has resulted into this. It's a necessity. Majority of folks who seem opposed to it are predominately Axis players. Today, on our 18th anniversary we saw the Allies for about 4 hours have a 33% overpopulation. Guess what? They got nailed with spawn delay and felt the same thing.

Now at hour 5, we're seeing 1:1 population, and no one has a spawn delay. This is when the game is at its best, when there's a balance. We need to incentivize this happening and we must stop massive rolls of the campaign. When side balance is prioritized more by the general player base we'll pull off this a bit and get those timers settled down. Until then, this'll have to happen.

Remember... 30 seconds spawn delay means you have a WICKED overpopulation at this point. Our game is extraordinarily harder to balance in general because we do not fit the mold of a traditional FPS (in terms of scale). There's a lot of other considerations at play. I'll keep an eye on it but this seemed like a necessary move based on the trends we're seeing.

What's the deal with waiting your 30 seconds, and then when you hit enter game, the enter button go's grey, and your still not in game. Wait another 20 seconds or so, it go's back green, and maybe this time you can enter. This is a total PITA. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/7/2019 at 9:25 PM, choad said:

They don't want spawn delay. They don't want extended cap timers. They want to win, and they want to win now dammit. There are not many alternate solutions that have been brought to the table that are realistic. So where does that leave us?

Reading through all this, my idea sounds better and better .... maybe because of a lack of alternative thoughts.

So i will state it again...

Get rid of spawn delay. If you are KIA on a sortie you get a 20 second delay before you can reenter the game world. The timer starts as soon as u go back to the after action report screen, and counts down .... but doesnt get reset if you change missions like SD does now. It is the game telling you to get better at living, try harder. A penalty for dying that everyone feels .... as it should be. If the side you are playing is underpop, that spawn delay is forgiven to some degree or another. That is your positive reinforcement that so many are going on about.

There is your answer .... you are welcome.

There are actually a LOT of others way to counter the over population problems without instituting spawn delays, and or cap timers. It just takes more coding. Spawn delays and cap timers are hack fixes that can be changed with minimal effort on the coding front. Another problem is spawn delays should be regional, not global. A two on two battle (or 4 on 4) on a secondary AO should not be faced with a 30 sec spawn delay because one side is over pop in a battle half way across the continent. 

Can we for once try something other than Spawn Delays and Cap timers?

some of the things you could try.

1) adjust Fms placement distances based on population (if overpop, can only setup 1k yards out, if underpop 500 yards, etc etc). 

2) add FMS timers ( a placed fms is only up for a predetermined period of time before it disappears, and this time is adjusted based on population) 

3) adjust the weapon pool (strong emphasis on auto weapons) up or down based on population. If your overpop, you get less auto's. 

4) adjust stamina ratings

5) adjust ai accuracy and strength based on population. 

 

And these are just things that come to mind without giving it much thought. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/7/2019 at 9:25 PM, choad said:

They don't want spawn delay. They don't want extended cap timers. They want to win, and they want to win now dammit. There are not many alternate solutions that have been brought to the table that are realistic. So where does that leave us?

Reading through all this, my idea sounds better and better .... maybe because of a lack of alternative thoughts.

So i will state it again...

Get rid of spawn delay. If you are KIA on a sortie you get a 20 second delay before you can reenter the game world. The timer starts as soon as u go back to the after action report screen, and counts down .... but doesnt get reset if you change missions like SD does now. It is the game telling you to get better at living, try harder. A penalty for dying that everyone feels .... as it should be. If the side you are playing is underpop, that spawn delay is forgiven to some degree or another. That is your positive reinforcement that so many are going on about.

There is your answer .... you are welcome.

The flip side of that is it promotes a style of game play not conducive to the way the game should be played. It encourages more people to hide like cowards and snipe, rather than run the risk of dieing rushing a bunker or depot. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, nc0gnet0 said:

There are actually a LOT of others way to counter the over population problems without instituting spawn delays, and or cap timers. It just takes more coding. Spawn delays and cap timers are hack fixes that can be changed with minimal effort on the coding front. Another problem is spawn delays should be regional, not global. A two on two battle (or 4 on 4) on a secondary AO should not be faced with a 30 sec spawn delay because one side is over pop in a battle half way across the continent. 

Can we for once try something other than Spawn Delays and Cap timers?

some of the things you could try.

1) adjust Fms placement distances based on population (if overpop, can only setup 1k yards out, if underpop 500 yards, etc etc). 

2) add FMS timers ( a placed fms is only up for a predetermined period of time before it disappears, and this time is adjusted based on population) 

3) adjust the weapon pool (strong emphasis on auto weapons) up or down based on population. If your overpop, you get less auto's. 

4) adjust stamina ratings

5) adjust ai accuracy and strength based on population. 

 

And these are just things that come to mind without giving it much thought. 

You  are subbed and have access to Barracks, right?  My original Pop Neutrality proposal had most of these and more, I'll pop it up if you want to look it over.

 

I believe we need 3-4 PN type measures, all interlocking and designed to achieve the end without killing off the Adrenalin rush this game does so much to build up only to undercut with either ubercamping or delays.  Crutch on one too much and you get bad results.  They also need to ramp up to at least 90% effect range, and the actual calc needs to be VERY smart as to what it's based on- see too many situations where the underpopped side gets SD for x minutes, suggesting the calc captured an anomalous state or has some weird averaging over 10-60 minutes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

You  are subbed and have access to Barracks, right?  My original Pop Neutrality proposal had most of these and more, I'll pop it up if you want to look it over.

 

I believe we need 3-4 PN type measures, all interlocking and designed to achieve the end without killing off the Adrenalin rush this game does so much to build up only to undercut with either ubercamping or delays.  Crutch on one too much and you get bad results.  They also need to ramp up to at least 90% effect range, and the actual calc needs to be VERY smart as to what it's based on- see too many situations where the underpopped side gets SD for x minutes, suggesting the calc captured an anomalous state or has some weird averaging over 10-60 minutes.

Yes, I am a subscriber. Would love to see what you have proposed, post the link.

Another thing I would like to see fixed is that after you set a fms, you have to wait ten seconds to despawn, then if your over pop, another 30 seconds to spawn back in. I mean, COME ON CRS!!!!!. Add a enter bug to that equation, and it's over a minute to get back in game, and by that time the FMS is camped. 

And let the trucks with machine guns mounted set fms so they can at least do something, seeing how the driver is glued to the drivers seat. 

Edited by nc0gnet0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, nc0gnet0 said:

Yes, I am a subscriber. Would love to see what you have proposed, post the link.

Another thing I would like to see fixed is that after you set a fms, you have to wait ten seconds to despawn, then if your over pop, another 30 seconds to spawn back in. I mean, COME ON CRS!!!!!. Add a enter bug to that equation, and it's over a minute to get back in game, and by that time the FMS is camped. 

And let the trucks with machine guns mounted set fms so they can at least do something, seeing how the driver is glued to the drivers seat. 

Here tis, have not bumped it in years, feel free to comment there though as it would be nice for newer people to get the original with new thoughts on it.

 

Not that I claim originality for all or most mechanisms, just more the 'branding' and defining the need for PN.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.