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kgarner

Spawn delay 30+ secs?

124 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, sgthenning said:

I don't care about this map I never did. I already knew before map start what was going to happen. So did the rest of the axis player base. No one on axis side cares if we lose this map or not it was a given. 

So you gave up already? Why didn't you just change tactics and adapt? Not to mention it's only been a few days. Once the Tiger hits, your pop will come back up and many of the "axis" players will come back and you'll be all over the forums praising "your" greatness.

That is unless something bad happens and you threaten to rage quit again.

Edited by Randazzo

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7 minutes ago, Randazzo said:

So you gave up already? Why didn't you just change tactics and adapt? Not to mention it's only been a few days. Once the Tiger hits, your pop will come back up and many of the "axis" players will come back and you'll be all over the forums praising "your" greatness.

That is unless something bad happens and you threaten to rage quit again.

I didn't rage quit I knew who was going Allied before the map even started lol you really are naïve Randazoo  

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6 hours ago, bus0 said:

Some of us played when we had 2min SD, this 30sec is child's play, do I agree, No, but its a necessity per Xooms view of recent game play, can always revert back in the future, for now, STFU and play.

This^^^^

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Admittedly I don't get to play many online multiplayer games nowadays but every single one that I have played over the years has some sort of wait time between every match/spawn. Why is it not excepted here when the sides are imbalanced?

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If every single fight is to be a run around shooting people in every direction, all the time, then SD makes little sense. If the battles could feel more like battles, then people might be willing to invest a little more time.

I have a theory that people like the camp situations not because of the kill fest, but because they actually have some idea where the enemy is, and that the enemy is---unlike the rest of the time in game---actually in front of them.

This situation is true in some of the town geography, and when it works out that players have to attack across a front, with fire and advance, smoke, and actual flanking (setting up MSPs 360 degrees is not ever flanking, sorry. WW2OL battles are either 100% flanking attacks (a point is all flank by definition), or 0% flanking attacks (because there is never a front. Pick one. I mean when units are actually spread out along a forest endge, for example, and you need to move across some area to get to them, or a Depot that is removed from town a few hundred m. Those are the best fights in this game, precisely because the enemy is mostly in front, until you actually overrun their position. That feeling of always being surrounded is a different kind of play, and if we hand fronts, one still available via paratroops.

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3 hours ago, sgthenning said:

Allied have some good vets just not enough of them. I enjoyed my time as Allied HC and we won a lot of maps. After I retired and Allied CINC allied side has seemed to go down hill. I would like to know why that happed because it baffles me. You have the better equipment now than you did when I was CINC; and since they took the tactical game out by putting units in every town you would think it would be easier. So I am trying to figure out how your losing so many maps I just don't understand it. I played Allied for the mini map and yea you have to issues over there they need fixed. I tried to help and was told to stfu. So I left after 2 maps allied and went back to axis. Before I left as Allied CINC I made a detailed post on how to win a map and it can work on both sides. Seems Axis picked up on that and used it but allies haven't. Really I don't care much anymore one way or the other. I don't play anywhere near as much as I used to. I will be playing less and less and once I hit my 20 year mark I wont play anymore after that. So I only have 2 more years of playing this game and I may even give it up before that depending on how my health holds out which currently isn't do to well.

I don't want to throw you under the bus in public, but this post is wrong on so many levels.  

 

I hope your health improves though.  S!

 

The one thing you said earlier that's worth mention is the added draw that the Axis side has.

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4 hours ago, sgthenning said:

Allied have some good vets just not enough of them. I enjoyed my time as Allied HC and we won a lot of maps. After I retired and Allied CINC allied side has seemed to go down hill. I would like to know why that happed because it baffles me. You have the better equipment now than you did when I was CINC; and since they took the tactical game out by putting units in every town you would think it would be easier. So I am trying to figure out how your losing so many maps I just don't understand it. I played Allied for the mini map and yea you have to issues over there they need fixed. I tried to help and was told to stfu. So I left after 2 maps allied and went back to axis. Before I left as Allied CINC I made a detailed post on how to win a map and it can work on both sides. Seems Axis picked up on that and used it but allies haven't. Really I don't care much anymore one way or the other. I don't play anywhere near as much as I used to. I will be playing less and less and once I hit my 20 year mark I wont play anymore after that. So I only have 2 more years of playing this game and I may even give it up before that depending on how my health holds out which currently isn't do to well.

I hope you feel better soon and your health takes a turn for the better. Don't place artificial time boxes on your playing career .... why wouldn't u play after 20 years? Just curious. Obviously you enjoy it to some extent to stick with it for 20 years.

 Anyways ... a lot of the other stuff u said was kinda self serving don't ya think? Perhaps not grounded in reality ....or put differently ... your fantasy? 

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6 hours ago, Nick said:

Admittedly I don't get to play many online multiplayer games nowadays but every single one that I have played over the years has some sort of wait time between every match/spawn. Why is it not excepted here when the sides are imbalanced?

Back before the limit: it rose to 300s a few times, people just logged off.

120-200s was pretty common.

 

If a player swiches sides, they'll be kicked out of the squad.

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42 minutes ago, major0noob said:

If a player swiches sides, they'll be kicked out of the squad.

To clarify, noob means his own squad - this is not true for all squads.

 

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6 hours ago, choad said:

I hope you feel better soon and your health takes a turn for the better. Don't place artificial time boxes on your playing career .... why wouldn't u play after 20 years? Just curious. Obviously you enjoy it to some extent to stick with it for 20 years.

 Anyways ... a lot of the other stuff u said was kinda self serving don't ya think? Perhaps not grounded in reality ....or put differently ... your fantasy? 

I did 20 years in the Air Force ill do 20 in this game and retire from that too Choad My health is getting worse and I need to spend more time with my son. He will be 14 in Aug so I am running out of time to spend with him before you know it he will be gone out on his own too.

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29 minutes ago, sgthenning said:

I did 20 years in the Air Force ill do 20 in this game and retire from that too Choad My health is getting worse and I need to spend more time with my son. He will be 14 in Aug so I am running out of time to spend with him before you know it he will be gone out on his own too.

I hesitate to say anything cuz this is really none of my business, but maybe don't wait two years try to catch up some quality time with your son. He'll be 16 and he'll want to be driving and spending as little time w/ parents as possible (if my childhood is any reference point, lol). This game isn't a job and it isn't a military career. It's fun ... but like alcohol, use it in moderation. ;) And as the others said, sorry about your health situation. 

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3 hours ago, Randazzo said:

To clarify, noob means his own squad - this is not true for all squads.

Don't seem any axis tags on allies, or axis on allies. Only exception is when a entire squad migrates for a campaign.

Moving back and forth within hours or days isn't tolerated. Went through several squads as lIaceIl (aka lysol) looking for one that played both or underpop without success.

 

One of my favorite players tried to get his group to play the other side when they needed help, there was almost a mutiny...

The side bias is just as ridiculous as the fourms suggest.

 

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there are about 40 axis online and we're getting 22 seconds of spawn delay at 4:00 p.m. US EST

at this point it's a tax for spawning infantry

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On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 11:02 PM, XOOM said:

. Majority of folks who seem opposed to it are predominately Axis players. 

 

Can we free Riflemen from SD at least? So then you have the option to still play??? I insist SD is against players game enjoyment, Allie or Axis. 

And if it is noted it affects a side more than the other then it should absolutely be reduced. 

S!

 

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Interesting idea. I wonder if a SD could be used to make the number if infantry in play in a given AO/Do roughly mimic their appropriate numbers (~1 in 10 a SMG/LMG, the rest rifles).

Still it would not solve the issue that SD is meant to address, population imbalance.

I still say that depot/MSP spawning should be limited to the relative balance of units attacking vs defending a given AO.

 

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4 hours ago, shagher said:

Can we free Riflemen from SD at least? So then you have the option to still play??? I insist SD is against players game enjoyment, Allie or Axis. 

And if it is noted it affects a side more than the other then it should absolutely be reduced. 

S!

I know it is, no need to preach to the choir on the adverse effect. However the worser of the two evils is to not have it (it is defined balance of some sort, even if that means an imbalance in numbers but a balance in avoiding a roll against the under populated side).

Freeing Rifleman from Spawn Delay would counter many who argue for Free Players (predominately Rifleman) from being forced to participate in the act of spawn delay. Some even suggest highly that they should be forced to the underpopulated side as a way for the game to balance itself without impacting paying users.

Cause and effect.

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23 minutes ago, XOOM said:

Freeing Rifleman from Spawn Delay would counter many who argue for Free Players (predominately Rifleman) from being forced to participate in the act of spawn delay.

Seems as if the marketing logic would be that subscribers...paying customers...would get less, or maybe no, spawn delay.

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Just now, jwilly said:

Seems as if the marketing logic would be that subscribers...paying customers...would get less, or maybe no, spawn delay.

Keeping a healthy balanced game play experience takes precedence. Otherwise the rest of it goes out the window and becomes difficult.

Undoubtedly, if such a thing was to be considered, such as force pushing traffic to the underpopulated side, paying subscribers would be exempt.

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On 6/6/2019 at 11:02 PM, XOOM said:

As you know, the spawn Delay maximum has indeed gone up to 30 seconds. When you achieve 30 seconds, it is under worst possible conditions. The unwillingness for side balance to occur through other measures has resulted into this. It's a necessity. Majority of folks who seem opposed to it are predominately Axis players. Today, on our 18th anniversary we saw the Allies for about 4 hours have a 33% overpopulation. Guess what? They got nailed with spawn delay and felt the same thing.

Now at hour 5, we're seeing 1:1 population, and no one has a spawn delay. This is when the game is at its best, when there's a balance. We need to incentivize this happening and we must stop massive rolls of the campaign. When side balance is prioritized more by the general player base we'll pull off this a bit and get those timers settled down. Until then, this'll have to happen.

Remember... 30 seconds spawn delay means you have a WICKED overpopulation at this point. Our game is extraordinarily harder to balance in general because we do not fit the mold of a traditional FPS (in terms of scale). There's a lot of other considerations at play. I'll keep an eye on it but this seemed like a necessary move based on the trends we're seeing.

What's the deal with waiting your 30 seconds, and then when you hit enter game, the enter button go's grey, and your still not in game. Wait another 20 seconds or so, it go's back green, and maybe this time you can enter. This is a total PITA. 

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On 6/7/2019 at 9:25 PM, choad said:

They don't want spawn delay. They don't want extended cap timers. They want to win, and they want to win now dammit. There are not many alternate solutions that have been brought to the table that are realistic. So where does that leave us?

Reading through all this, my idea sounds better and better .... maybe because of a lack of alternative thoughts.

So i will state it again...

Get rid of spawn delay. If you are KIA on a sortie you get a 20 second delay before you can reenter the game world. The timer starts as soon as u go back to the after action report screen, and counts down .... but doesnt get reset if you change missions like SD does now. It is the game telling you to get better at living, try harder. A penalty for dying that everyone feels .... as it should be. If the side you are playing is underpop, that spawn delay is forgiven to some degree or another. That is your positive reinforcement that so many are going on about.

There is your answer .... you are welcome.

There are actually a LOT of others way to counter the over population problems without instituting spawn delays, and or cap timers. It just takes more coding. Spawn delays and cap timers are hack fixes that can be changed with minimal effort on the coding front. Another problem is spawn delays should be regional, not global. A two on two battle (or 4 on 4) on a secondary AO should not be faced with a 30 sec spawn delay because one side is over pop in a battle half way across the continent. 

Can we for once try something other than Spawn Delays and Cap timers?

some of the things you could try.

1) adjust Fms placement distances based on population (if overpop, can only setup 1k yards out, if underpop 500 yards, etc etc). 

2) add FMS timers ( a placed fms is only up for a predetermined period of time before it disappears, and this time is adjusted based on population) 

3) adjust the weapon pool (strong emphasis on auto weapons) up or down based on population. If your overpop, you get less auto's. 

4) adjust stamina ratings

5) adjust ai accuracy and strength based on population. 

 

And these are just things that come to mind without giving it much thought. 

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On 6/7/2019 at 9:25 PM, choad said:

They don't want spawn delay. They don't want extended cap timers. They want to win, and they want to win now dammit. There are not many alternate solutions that have been brought to the table that are realistic. So where does that leave us?

Reading through all this, my idea sounds better and better .... maybe because of a lack of alternative thoughts.

So i will state it again...

Get rid of spawn delay. If you are KIA on a sortie you get a 20 second delay before you can reenter the game world. The timer starts as soon as u go back to the after action report screen, and counts down .... but doesnt get reset if you change missions like SD does now. It is the game telling you to get better at living, try harder. A penalty for dying that everyone feels .... as it should be. If the side you are playing is underpop, that spawn delay is forgiven to some degree or another. That is your positive reinforcement that so many are going on about.

There is your answer .... you are welcome.

The flip side of that is it promotes a style of game play not conducive to the way the game should be played. It encourages more people to hide like cowards and snipe, rather than run the risk of dieing rushing a bunker or depot. 

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1 minute ago, nc0gnet0 said:

There are actually a LOT of others way to counter the over population problems without instituting spawn delays, and or cap timers. It just takes more coding. Spawn delays and cap timers are hack fixes that can be changed with minimal effort on the coding front. Another problem is spawn delays should be regional, not global. A two on two battle (or 4 on 4) on a secondary AO should not be faced with a 30 sec spawn delay because one side is over pop in a battle half way across the continent. 

Can we for once try something other than Spawn Delays and Cap timers?

some of the things you could try.

1) adjust Fms placement distances based on population (if overpop, can only setup 1k yards out, if underpop 500 yards, etc etc). 

2) add FMS timers ( a placed fms is only up for a predetermined period of time before it disappears, and this time is adjusted based on population) 

3) adjust the weapon pool (strong emphasis on auto weapons) up or down based on population. If your overpop, you get less auto's. 

4) adjust stamina ratings

5) adjust ai accuracy and strength based on population. 

 

And these are just things that come to mind without giving it much thought. 

You  are subbed and have access to Barracks, right?  My original Pop Neutrality proposal had most of these and more, I'll pop it up if you want to look it over.

 

I believe we need 3-4 PN type measures, all interlocking and designed to achieve the end without killing off the Adrenalin rush this game does so much to build up only to undercut with either ubercamping or delays.  Crutch on one too much and you get bad results.  They also need to ramp up to at least 90% effect range, and the actual calc needs to be VERY smart as to what it's based on- see too many situations where the underpopped side gets SD for x minutes, suggesting the calc captured an anomalous state or has some weird averaging over 10-60 minutes.

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8 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

You  are subbed and have access to Barracks, right?  My original Pop Neutrality proposal had most of these and more, I'll pop it up if you want to look it over.

 

I believe we need 3-4 PN type measures, all interlocking and designed to achieve the end without killing off the Adrenalin rush this game does so much to build up only to undercut with either ubercamping or delays.  Crutch on one too much and you get bad results.  They also need to ramp up to at least 90% effect range, and the actual calc needs to be VERY smart as to what it's based on- see too many situations where the underpopped side gets SD for x minutes, suggesting the calc captured an anomalous state or has some weird averaging over 10-60 minutes.

Yes, I am a subscriber. Would love to see what you have proposed, post the link.

Another thing I would like to see fixed is that after you set a fms, you have to wait ten seconds to despawn, then if your over pop, another 30 seconds to spawn back in. I mean, COME ON CRS!!!!!. Add a enter bug to that equation, and it's over a minute to get back in game, and by that time the FMS is camped. 

And let the trucks with machine guns mounted set fms so they can at least do something, seeing how the driver is glued to the drivers seat. 

Edited by nc0gnet0

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1 hour ago, nc0gnet0 said:

Yes, I am a subscriber. Would love to see what you have proposed, post the link.

Another thing I would like to see fixed is that after you set a fms, you have to wait ten seconds to despawn, then if your over pop, another 30 seconds to spawn back in. I mean, COME ON CRS!!!!!. Add a enter bug to that equation, and it's over a minute to get back in game, and by that time the FMS is camped. 

And let the trucks with machine guns mounted set fms so they can at least do something, seeing how the driver is glued to the drivers seat. 

Here tis, have not bumped it in years, feel free to comment there though as it would be nice for newer people to get the original with new thoughts on it.

 

Not that I claim originality for all or most mechanisms, just more the 'branding' and defining the need for PN.

 

 

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