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david06

new player situation still not fixed

18 posts in this topic

there are 4-5 greentags spawning at a FB to a town where we've just pulled the AO

doesn't sound like much, but that is 10-20% of the axis population right there

seeing as each and every one of these guys is counted the same towards spawn delay a veteran driving around in a tank or lagwizarding around a depot with a SMG, this is a problem

if you are going to clobber one side with spawn delay simply for having players spawned in to the game then you need to give them some kind of control over where to send them

they don't even speak english, and it's not like the english-speaking F2P players were amicable to orders anyway (if any of you want to remember the steam debacle a year and a half ago)

i8jMVC4.jpg

it was actually admirable in that they all set out in a line walking towards town

1ZM37yL.jpg

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The game gives a message to them that the ao has been removed, rtb and despawn.

What do you suggest CRS can do to help this situation?

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There is a problem with greentags that almost no coding will fix.  Its called laziness. Not being mean, I just see it a lot.

About a week ago a green tag spawned in on my FMS.. he figured out how to spawn in on a FMS I guess by accident.. but he says "how do I aim my riffle?" and ran around the FMS shooting from the hip and tossing grenades eventually killing himself. Thats just one instance.. I have the help channel tuned and you get "how do I reload".. or how do you "jump".. or other things that make you wonder how they even figured out how to spawn in.  But more important is that they actually failed to even look at what makes the game work as intended.  Like what button does what, the very basic info you think they would have looked for.

 

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make default on active battles tab:

- exclude attack missions without fms or spawn building

- exclude  defence missions with fms

- exclude fb missions

- exclude anything not AO related

- make all that adjustable in settings

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16 hours ago, stankyus said:

There is a problem with greentags that almost no coding will fix.  Its called laziness. Not being mean, I just see it a lot.

About a week ago a green tag spawned in on my FMS.. he figured out how to spawn in on a FMS I guess by accident.. but he says "how do I aim my riffle?" and ran around the FMS shooting from the hip and tossing grenades eventually killing himself. Thats just one instance.. I have the help channel tuned and you get "how do I reload".. or how do you "jump".. or other things that make you wonder how they even figured out how to spawn in.  But more important is that they actually failed to even look at what makes the game work as intended.  Like what button does what, the very basic info you think they would have looked for.

 

I totally get what you’re saying and I agree to some extent. In fact I’ve had greentags crawl into my foxhole with me and refuse to leave, throwing smoke bombs and stabbing at me, etc.  Or just generally acting crazy at an FB or wherever. Some of them don’t ever respond to chat or PMs, to a degree that I think they probably don’t know how. 

But look at it from another perspective.  There are many WW2 games out there to choose from. This is just one among many that maybe they’ve decided, on a whim, to try out. And it’s an FPS, and most FPS games these days act *mostly* the same .. the controls are similar, the general objectives usually seem clear (maps indicate capture points, things generally point you in a direction after you spawn in. Or you just follow the other players around!). 

It’s not reasonable to expect most new players to do their homework about this game and really try to understand “what makes the game work as intended” before they hit the game world. It’s not really laziness (well maybe a little bit), it’s just short attention spans and thinking “well if this game sucks, I’ll move on to the next one.”  Should they take the training? Absolutely. I know I did. But the training only goes so far, there is a still a ton of stuff that is confusing even after learning the basics. 

I don’t have a solution, unfortunately. 

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46 minutes ago, hillstorm said:

I totally get what you’re saying and I agree to some extent. In fact I’ve had greentags crawl into my foxhole with me and refuse to leave, throwing smoke bombs and stabbing at me, etc.  Or just generally acting crazy at an FB or wherever. Some of them don’t ever respond to chat or PMs, to a degree that I think they probably don’t know how. 

But look at it from another perspective.  There are many WW2 games out there to choose from. This is just one among many that maybe they’ve decided, on a whim, to try out. And it’s an FPS, and most FPS games these days act *mostly* the same .. the controls are similar, the general objectives usually seem clear (maps indicate capture points, things generally point you in a direction after you spawn in. Or you just follow the other players around!). 

It’s not reasonable to expect most new players to do their homework about this game and really try to understand “what makes the game work as intended” before they hit the game world. It’s not really laziness (well maybe a little bit), it’s just short attention spans and thinking “well if this game sucks, I’ll move on to the next one.”  Should they take the training? Absolutely. I know I did. But the training only goes so far, there is a still a ton of stuff that is confusing even after learning the basics. 

I don’t have a solution, unfortunately. 

You laid out the whole problem right in your post.

Quake play is NOT ww2ol THANK GOD.  I played quake for a while, then ran into a guy who played ww2ol Crass63 who told me about this game.  I went out a found it, the thing he stressed to me was that it was hard, there where no powerups or first aid, huge map etc.  I spent about 2 weeks playing offline flying and running around, etc before I ever hit the log in button and still got my butt handed to me.  I remember my first encounter of EI, my first tank kill and my first a2a kill and my sortie that opened up the stuka for me.  The aspect of playing historical weapons and not fantasy weapons was a big draw.  I knew a lot about the German equipment, some about the american equipment, spitfire and nothing about the French.  I chose the Axis side because 1. it was sexy, 2 I perceived the Axis had all the best equipment. I played Axis for the first 5/6 years wanting to be a LW ace until I actually flew... 110s for the longest time. Extremely hard. 109s where sexy beasts but then learned I was just a LTAP and found that I loved the stuka and 111. Joined a primarily Stuka Squad. When it dissolved I went ground. I found my niche as a ground pounder. That took 2 years... and even then I posted a thread about "how come the Axis dont have a 2pdr type ATG!!" which I got a short facepalm when they said, you do.. its called the 88. Duh. I felt stupid. Since then I learned 100x more about ww2 equipment, history, ect.. 

What I was looking for was something that had more depth than shoebox shooters.  Shoebox shooters get bored and move on to the next one, then expect the same when they join ww2ol.  Its far from it.. TBH the Marketing point should be "Tired of Shoe Box Shooters?" or "Tired of Quake with ww2 skins?"  Something that drives that point home PRIOR to ppl looking for the next shoebox shooter in ww2 skins and giving the game a bad review because its not a shoebox shooter.

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Firing squad.

They might enjoy it! Before being shot their last words would probably be "Wow cool!", specially if you gav'em a cig.

http://qypKTfx.png 

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6 hours ago, dpetraeus said:

make default on active battles tab:

- exclude attack missions without fms or spawn building

- exclude  defence missions with fms

- exclude fb missions

- exclude anything not AO related

- make all that adjustable in settings

Nice!

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1 hour ago, hillstorm said:

I totally get what you’re saying and I agree to some extent. In fact I’ve had greentags crawl into my foxhole with me and refuse to leave, throwing smoke bombs and stabbing at me, etc.  Or just generally acting crazy at an FB or wherever. Some of them don’t ever respond to chat or PMs, to a degree that I think they probably don’t know how. 

But look at it from another perspective.  There are many WW2 games out there to choose from. This is just one among many that maybe they’ve decided, on a whim, to try out. And it’s an FPS, and most FPS games these days act *mostly* the same .. the controls are similar, the general objectives usually seem clear (maps indicate capture points, things generally point you in a direction after you spawn in. Or you just follow the other players around!). 

It’s not reasonable to expect most new players to do their homework about this game and really try to understand “what makes the game work as intended” before they hit the game world. It’s not really laziness (well maybe a little bit), it’s just short attention spans and thinking “well if this game sucks, I’ll move on to the next one.”  Should they take the training? Absolutely. I know I did. But the training only goes so far, there is a still a ton of stuff that is confusing even after learning the basics. 

I don’t have a solution, unfortunately. 

I do, a LOT more linked wiki entries, direct YouTube-equivalent links, etc.

 

Plus an offline trainer build package that squads can create their own boot camps and share the files with their new squaddies that run them through THEIR idea of the basics.  Call it Bootcamp Builder.

 

And above all, integrated voice comms that comes with the game package and sets them up to be talking to us first thing.

Edited by Kilemall

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13 hours ago, Kilemall said:

I do, a LOT more linked wiki entries, direct YouTube-equivalent links, etc.

 

Plus an offline trainer build package that squads can create their own boot camps and share the files with their new squaddies that run them through THEIR idea of the basics.  Call it Bootcamp Builder.

 

And above all, integrated voice comms that comes with the game package and sets them up to be talking to us first thing.

combination of the above;  plus what dptraeus said - ie. make it as foolproof as possible so they can only spawn, in the first instance via active battles, on a mission with fms/spawnable/clear active objective/other players/AO or DO action (with settings adjustments to alter this later for new or vet players - which is a great idea as well) PLUS as stankyus said; some hard-headed marketing or game descriptions making it clear this is neither a simple nor ultra-modern PVP FPS. 

new players aren't lazy -given the current pvp/wargame game environment and culture there is just no way for them to have a clue - because there is nothing out there that is analogous to this game - both the good of it and the bad of it. 

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Nowadays you can switch the amount of info that labels/nicknames show in-game.

Would it be possible to add a Field with the player languages? At least the most popular ones.

When you create your persona, you tick boxes with the languages you speak and they are shown with the squad info.

Like:

Eng -> English

Esp -> Spanish (Español)

Rus -> Russian

Oth -> Other

--------

Piska250

250H / Esp-Eng

I've spent HOURS when not Days of playing time trying to assist green players with no result and maybe they just don't even speak/understand English.

Edited by piska250

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16 hours ago, hillstorm said:

I totally get what you’re saying and I agree to some extent. In fact I’ve had greentags crawl into my foxhole with me and refuse to leave, throwing smoke bombs and stabbing at me, etc.  Or just generally acting crazy at an FB or wherever. Some of them don’t ever respond to chat or PMs, to a degree that I think they probably don’t know how. 

But look at it from another perspective.  There are many WW2 games out there to choose from. This is just one among many that maybe they’ve decided, on a whim, to try out. And it’s an FPS, and most FPS games these days act *mostly* the same .. the controls are similar, the general objectives usually seem clear (maps indicate capture points, things generally point you in a direction after you spawn in. Or you just follow the other players around!). 

It’s not reasonable to expect most new players to do their homework about this game and really try to understand “what makes the game work as intended” before they hit the game world. It’s not really laziness (well maybe a little bit), it’s just short attention spans and thinking “well if this game sucks, I’ll move on to the next one.”  Should they take the training? Absolutely. I know I did. But the training only goes so far, there is a still a ton of stuff that is confusing even after learning the basics. 

I don’t have a solution, unfortunately. 

Good Post S!

 

The "solution" for me was being in a great squad from day one. The Iron Wolves had a dedicated training team, and in the first few weeks I was probably on the training server as much as I was in game. However, training new guys is VERY labour intensive, and a paying player has to give up their game time to get a rookie up to speed. It also is not a "quick fix", it takes weeks and probably months, to get a new guy properly up to speed. (I have "met" vets on discord who do not really know about linking CPs, setting missions from HQs etc after 10+ years of continuous game play!!).

I was very lucky in my choice of squad (I thought the name was pretty cool and there was a mean looking wolf as well!) and aside from the dedicated training section every single Wolf would help and guide me, and the others that followed over the years. So S! and "Thank you!" gentlemen and ladies in 1LB Iron Wolves, especially Memnoch (who still plays occasionally)  Spikemk (Who we all miss and haven't seen in game for years) and Tanky (sadly no longer with us, but no doubt he is somewhere sitting in his Tiger, now with unlimited ammo, an unbreakable gun, hull down and at least 2000m outside the AO picking off ETs!) thanks guys for teaching me this game, and for giving me such a lasting source of fun and friendships, not just with 1LB, for the last 15 years!

 

So it was a squad that trained me and many others how to play, but squads cannot effectively look after 10 or more greentags all at once. I doubt many squads these days have the "resources" to properly train one or more Greentags at the same time. How many squads still have regular weekly training server sessions? With player numbers the way they are there is little or no "downtime" to use the training server, or when there is no action in your DO time to show new guys the best spots to take in order to guard CPs (TheWench was an expert!) - these are inside the CP by the way, not shooting out from the depot! - or good spots to shoot into ABs or cut streets from depots (that would be Borntogo's lessons). 

I know we have dedicated trainers, I see their tags in game, and I expect they run dedicated sessions for new players, but I have never seen these being pushed, do we highlight these as much as we could? 

It seems to me that new players just have to hope that they strike it lucky and end up at an FB or CP with a guy like Tex64 who will chat to them, explain the basics, and try to get them through the first few days and weeks of "heck, dead again! Did anyone see what killed me?" 

 

S! Ian 

 

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23 hours ago, dpetraeus said:

make default on active battles tab:

- exclude attack missions without fms or spawn building

- exclude  defence missions with fms

- exclude fb missions

- exclude anything not AO related

- make all that adjustable in settings

Very good idea to start with. 

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On ‎13‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 11:15 AM, dpetraeus said:

make default on active battles tab:

- exclude attack missions without fms or spawn building

- exclude  defence missions with fms

- exclude fb missions

- exclude anything not AO related

- make all that adjustable in settings

+1 

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1 minute ago, nily said:

Take Green Tags out of spawn delay equation.

S!

LIES

+1   And don't apply SD to them... why put off prospective customers who keep spawning a rifle, dying, then have to wait 30 seconds to repeat the process.

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Good suggestions here!  Some like the UI upgrade and the IVC are on the roadmap for this year.  But we need more supporting the roadmap and more development!

S!

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Just a few days ago I ran into a player that spoke no English ( he was a Chinese player) 

After a few tries of communicating with him with no result I figured it's all up to me to take down an EFMS , was him and I at that FB. He had a LMG at the EFMS and it should have been an easy take down but it wasn't . I actually has a 232 at the same EFMS when I tried to get him to spawn a Opel and set a FMS to blow said EFMS .

He managed at least to tell me he spoke no English and that he was Chinese . With that I called for help from a Squad mate that just logged in and about 10 min later the EFMS was finally down .

Besides the no option of turning chat bar off for new players and may make a PM stand more out then the typewriter sound . I don't know what can be done.

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