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delems

Truck EWS to short, move out.

47 posts in this topic

Truck EWS is way to short.

If you drive in, EWS goes off at 700m, then you can coast to 400m and defense hasn't even spawned in yet.

So, before first defender can even spawn in, eMS is set 400m from town.

Truck EWS should go to 1k at least; 1500 might even be better.

 

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Shorten the coasting on all Trucks , especially the Morris, it's utter BS how far that thing rolls after engine off.

CRS  can leave the EWS range .

Make it so on road it's a certain distance and off road a even shorter distance and it's fixed.

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I thought everybody wanted to goose offense.  This is like trying to determine by competing medical reports what causes or cures cancer this week.

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52 minutes ago, B2K said:

Y'all need to make your minds up.

This is easy to change, right? Seems ripe for experiment. I agree with the coasting post, above, offroad speeds are already about an order of magnitude too fast (yes, I mean that literally). If trucks can move at magical offroad speeds, why can't ATGs?

The inf sprint, for example makes us rest quite a bit. Even then, if are likely unrealistically fast, and that's OK, as we lack infantry sized terrain features (Look for things around your own yard that even just half the exposure of the front/back size of your body (prone height)).

Since I have been back I have observed that most attacks that win quickly are:

Trucks zoom in, set FMS all around town, troops start moving in, ignoring the utterly useless AI by waling a few pixels to one side of where they shoot, then AO set quickly (or already in process), and by the time the defense gets a couple people in with the lay of the land, the result is a foregone conclusion unless HC tells everyone to zerg the defense.

Isn't the point of AOs to allow some defenders to organize a defense before the attack arrives to simulate the fact that the unit in town being attacks would not be 100% asleep and 100% in town 100% of the time?

 

 

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11 minutes ago, tater said:

This is easy to change, right? Seems ripe for experiment. I agree with the coasting post, above, offroad speeds are already about an order of magnitude too fast (yes, I mean that literally). If trucks can move at magical offroad speeds, why can't ATGs?

The inf sprint, for example makes us rest quite a bit. Even then, if are likely unrealistically fast, and that's OK, as we lack infantry sized terrain features (Look for things around your own yard that even just half the exposure of the front/back size of your body (prone height)).

Since I have been back I have observed that most attacks that win quickly are:

Trucks zoom in, set FMS all around town, troops start moving in, ignoring the utterly useless AI by waling a few pixels to one side of where they shoot, then AO set quickly (or already in process), and by the time the defense gets a couple people in with the lay of the land, the result is a foregone conclusion unless HC tells everyone to zerg the defense.

Isn't the point of AOs to allow some defenders to organize a defense before the attack arrives to simulate the fact that the unit in town being attacks would not be 100% asleep and 100% in town 100% of the time?

 

 

Vehicle off-road performance is a different topic (and I agree - nothing should 'coast' off road more than a few feet tops, especially wheeled vehicles).  

EWS for trucks used to be farther out (1500m), it was changed (to 700m) in Jan of 2018 due to player requests.  

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This was a welcome change and it makes attacking less of a chore and more fun as there is a chance at fog of war....i was on both ends of these changes and i am onboard with low ews and closer ms’s...sorry but defense has enough advantage ingame atm

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21 minutes ago, B2K said:

Vehicle off-road performance is a different topic (and I agree - nothing should 'coast' off road more than a few feet tops, especially wheeled vehicles).  

EWS for trucks used to be farther out (1500m), it was changed (to 700m) in Jan of 2018 due to player requests.  

And there is nothing wrong with it.

 

But that is exactly where the Morris has a huge advantage over any other Truck. 

It shuts engine off before it gets into audio range , then coasts in and sets up.

Now if 3 or 4 players do that  they can surround a town easily,  Allies don't even have to roll in Armor . Cause the 2 pounder hides very well in the green bushes and kills pretty much ever Axis tank at range and a few might have to be a bit closer to the ATG but it kills them none the less. So in other words the 2 pounders in the FMS can deplete a Axis Armor spawn pool rather quickly.  

With that tactic the defender is always on the back heel and would / will have a hard time defending.

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23 minutes ago, dre21 said:

And there is nothing wrong with it.

 

But that is exactly where the Morris has a huge advantage over any other Truck. 

It shuts engine off before it gets into audio range , then coasts in and sets up.

Now if 3 or 4 players do that  they can surround a town easily,  Allies don't even have to roll in Armor . Cause the 2 pounder hides very well in the green bushes and kills pretty much ever Axis tank at range and a few might have to be a bit closer to the ATG but it kills them none the less. So in other words the 2 pounders in the FMS can deplete a Axis Armor spawn pool rather quickly.  

With that tactic the defender is always on the back heel and would / will have a hard time defending.

Right to the allied vs axis stuff dre....the morris was already nerfed offroad by quite a bit which i am fine with...this is about offense vs defense....trucks engine noise makes pinpointing it Very easy which is also another reason to leave ews as is....returning to boring ww1online is hopefully not in the plans personally i think offense should be given even more advantages but there seems to be a decent amount of back and forth with a good defense able to push an attack out without having to change things

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I’d care less about FMS range or ews if there were on-sides rules for fans placement, @B2K

Edited by tater

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just softcapped esloo, ews went of with towed guns. there was plenty of time to react, only like 2 defenders showed up though

another 4 hour old AO on axis side, no FMS's there

 

players are not showing up

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When the topic of LESSENING the ews range was brought up before it was LESSENED in January, (as B2k accurately says "Due to player requests"), my views were that it would hurt the defensive efforts, especially if the defensive efforts were tasked to the underpop side.  

My views were dismissed as being 'side-biased', and 'those of a well-known defensive player who refused to agree that defense was too easy'.  Neither of those characterizations of my views were accurate.  I would, however, be interested to see how many of those who thought attacking was too difficult and defending too easy have changed their views now that they are on the defensive more often.

 

S!

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Less can be 1000 instead of 1500, doesn't have to be 700?
 

I setup my defense position the other day and timed it, was between 15 and 20 min.

Very hard to setup defense when you spawn in and enemy has MS 400m from town already.

And as tat says, when MS can be anywhere around town, not just from the enemy front line direction, it is even harder.

 

*** the morris was already nerfed

Crack me up, omgosh.....

So being reduced from 5000m coast to 1000m coast is a nerf?  Disappointed in you.

 

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If vehicles had semi-realistic average offroad speeds (assume the terrain has details/obstacles that ours does not), the "on sides" would partially take care of itself, since driving to the far side of town would take about as long as walking (or slower than walking), and people would just want the offroad truck trip to end ASAP.

This is unrelated to EWS range, but are AI ranges universal?

 

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Increase the EWS range but deaden the sound some more, the issue is that a truck is hunted down and found by the sound it makes almost immediately.  Let the EWS go off and let the defenders have a chance to spawn in and set up, and let the truck have a chance to get in set up a FMS and the attackers a chance to get in.  The way it is the truck is often destroyed almost immediately by a cagey defender who can locate it via sound.  Move the EWS back out but deaden sound.  Figure out how to make it so that things like TREES and TERRAIN can be used to mask sound.  Trees block sound, hills block sound, valleys block sound.  If I'm driving on top of a hill my sound will carry down into a valley, but if I'm driving in a valley my sound isn't going to carry flat across the terrain into town.  If I'm behind a hill/berm/trees that will dampen the sound energy that gets to the town.

I say move EWS detection ranges back out but the sound detection ranges need to be cut in at least 1/2.

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Sound is ridiculous, I agree, but MSPs are also placed in the rear. As long as the enemy can deploy magical teleporters, the sound is fine, and MSPs should if anything be easier to hunt and kill.

I'm a full-throated supporter of MSPs, BTW, but the instant they are allowed to deploy behind lines they are not abstractions of enemy forces, they are teleporters. The should never have been allowed to deploy offsides.

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15 hours ago, Jsilec said:

Right to the allied vs axis stuff dre....the morris was already nerfed offroad by quite a bit which i am fine with...this is about offense vs defense....trucks engine noise makes pinpointing it Very easy which is also another reason to leave ews as is....returning to boring ww1online is hopefully not in the plans personally i think offense should be given even more advantages but there seems to be a decent amount of back and forth with a good defense able to push an attack out without having to change things

What do you mean right to the Allies vs Axis stuff? 

 When I come over to Allied I use the Morris why cause it like a Porsche in off road steroid mode.

It's fast and rolls forever when the engine goes off perfect to sneak in..

 

I'm not advocating for a EWS change just the engine off glide speed of said vehicle  , Turn off a Opel in terrain and see how far it rolls , it's not very far and just a bit farther when one goes full speed on the road and then goes offroad.

Every one goes Defence has it easy.  

Well here is the thing in game it's like this EWS goes on , the other side doesn't know is this going to be a an AO or is it some new player that might have set it off , so sometimes defenders wait and see if a AO gets placed before spawning in.

Now if the other Attacking side assembles at FB a huge amount of troops and drives to town and EWS goes on then AO is set ,then the defender is already in an disadvantage. Depending on town layout , and what tier ,Axis tanks won't even make it out of the barn 5 meters, and don't deny it. 

In real the Attacker was always facing dug in troops and well positioned defenders , In game it's a reaction to an attack where the Attacker usually sits in well positioned places before the defence even shows up ( unless one reacts to the 1st EWS )

Also in real life the attack came from one direction in addition with a pincer movement.   In game we literally have troops come from behind the lines .

And with that being said the off road glide capability of the Morris is a clear advantage,  that for some reason Allies do not utilize to its full potential. 

By getting FMS up and ATG spread out to take care of the 1st wave of Panzers,  not to mention the Sappers and ATR that can also take out the Panzer , now if CRS would give you guys the Rifle Grenadier back and his heat ammo then , I don't think any Axis tanker would even spawn in anymore. What for it be stupid just so one side can kill anything that rolls in front of the gun.

I never cared for who won the map and still don't but I do have to say when Axis roll the map and I was over on the Allied side I had fun , target rich environment and I knew I could get kills with almost anything I spawn vs almost anything that was coming in front of me . 

Axis side that's not so much the case , there one has to pick and choose make sure I have the right angle ,right spot to fire at , the right distance , the right persona spawned in depending what rolls in front of me.

A fighting chance be nice when one looses the map , I have that when I play Allied , I don't have that feeling when I'm Axis .

 

Edited by dre21

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5 minutes ago, dre21 said:

What do you mean right to the Allies vs Axis stuff? 

 When I come over to Allied I use the Morris why cause it like a Porsche in off road steroid mode.

It's fast and rolls forever when the engine goes off perfect to sneak in..

All the trucks need to have their offroad speed reduced in many places to human walking speed at most. If the Morris is really bad, knock it down right away, I'm fine with that (Allied player, here). If they glide a little farther from what should be their top offroad speed (literally 10X slower than they go now) it won't make a difference.

(anyone complaining about time to set up---use a road, that's what they are for).

 

5 minutes ago, dre21 said:

Every one goes Defence has it easy.  

Well here is the thing in game it's like this EWS goes on , the other side doesn't know is this going to be a an AO or is it some new player that might have set it off , so sometimes defenders wait and see if a AO gets placed before spawning in.

This is so true. I'd add that even if EWS goes off, people have to notice it, and not be too busy. The kind of people who would be first responders to early EWS are also the kind of players who are already, you know, guarding a CP. They are also the ones who can afford to pay attention, since they're staring at a wall, listening for ei, and can read the chat (out of sheer boredom, if nothing else).

So people need to notice EWS, then be in a position to be able to react to it, sometimes setting up missions, etc. Defense in the game is nearly 100% reactive.

5 minutes ago, dre21 said:

Now if the other Attacking side assembles at FB a huge amount of troops and drives to town and EWS goes on then AO is set ,then the defender is already in an disadvantage. Depending on town layout , and what tier ,Axis tanks won't even make it out of the barn 5 meters, and don't deny it. 

I rarely tank, and I don't do axis, but I think this is true on both sides. The mere fact that you can spawn in during an early EWS period and get killed in the AB at all is absurd.

5 minutes ago, dre21 said:

In real the Attacker was always facing dug in troops and well positioned defenders , In game it's a reaction to an attack where the Attacker usually sits in well positioned places before the defence even shows up ( unless one reacts to the 1st EWS )

This was often, though not always the case (though I agree completely with the sentiment). What is certainly true is that defenders were not all holed up in a few hotels in town, waiting for gunfire in the lobby before getting dressed.

5 minutes ago, dre21 said:

Also in real life the attack came from one direction in addition with a pincer movement.   In game we literally have troops come from behind the lines .

The very worst thing about MSPs is that they were ever allowed to deploy behind lines (or across rivers).

5 minutes ago, dre21 said:

And with that being said the off road glide capability of the Morris is a clear advantage,  that for some reason Allies do not utilize to its full potential. 

I drive trucks and set FMS from time to time. I never glide them at all, it's gamey BS to me, and I'd rather have the truck killed than do it. YMMV.

 

5 minutes ago, dre21 said:

I never cared for who won the map and still don't but I do have to say when Axis roll the map and I was over on the Allied side I had fun , target rich environment and I knew I could get kills with almost anything I spawn vs almost anything that was coming in front of me . 

Axis side that's not so much the case , there one has to pick and choose make sure I have the right angle ,right spot to fire at , the right distance , the right persona spawned in depending what rolls in front of me.

I don't see that <shrug>. I play ATGs, usually the small ones, and the only time I get kills on "whatever rolls in front of me" is when I let them roll in front of me close enough I could shoot them with a rifle with certainty if they were inf.

I'd like to see a sort of heavy MSP (like all MSPs it should not ever deploy in the rear) that could spawn heavy ATGs. The ability for the Germans to pre-deploy 88s in good spots would be pretty powerful.

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@tater

I can tell ya I enjoy playing Allied far more in Axis OP , then vice versa. 

 

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Players place FRUs in the exact same spots for years ... they did ... they do ... and they will do it in 95% of the attacks again.

Once a town name pops up for EWS ... I can instantly tell you the usual FRU spots for it.

You all act as if it is some sort of rocket science ... no it isn't. Once EWS pops up ... spawn a scout car or infantry and run towards one of the usual directions. Then run around town in a circle of 500-700m ... and voila you are able to spot every FRU. Spot it ... mark it on map ... flank it ... blow it up or call for support.

I've been able to shut down allied attacks single handedly because of this tactic and ofc my memory of their usual spots. Waiting for allied trucks to roll in and try it again over and over again.

 

There is a huge difference between ACT and REACT. I prefer to REACT to first EWS unless it was too obvious that an AO will come to town ... and then instantly switch to ACT ... and block new inc trucks

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21 hours ago, dre21 said:

I can tell ya I enjoy playing Allied far more in Axis OP , then vice versa. 

I helped a Rat test something once or twice as Axis, those would be the only times I ever spawned Axis, so yeah.

7 hours ago, undercova said:

Players place FRUs in the exact same spots for years ... they did ... they do ... and they will do it in 95% of the attacks again.

Once a town name pops up for EWS ... I can instantly tell you the usual FRU spots for it.

You all act as if it is some sort of rocket science ... no it isn't. Once EWS pops up ... spawn a scout car or infantry and run towards one of the usual directions. Then run around town in a circle of 500-700m ... and voila you are able to spot every FRU. Spot it ... mark it on map ... flank it ... blow it up or call for support.

I've been able to shut down allied attacks single handedly because of this tactic and ofc my memory of their usual spots. Waiting for allied trucks to roll in and try it again over and over again.

Yeah, I realize this is true, though having been gone a while, I certainly don't remember the spots. That said, we all can see what direction the AI points, and how attacks walk in between the AI (which is why the AI is completely useless).

You observations are obviously true, but that's pretty boring gameplay for both sides, frankly, right?

1. As you say, it's always the same.

2. The attackers either come up against someone like you, and the attack peters out, or they don't, and often end up taking the town before much a defense forms at all (some are in between).

 

7 hours ago, undercova said:

There is a huge difference between ACT and REACT. I prefer to REACT to first EWS unless it was too obvious that an AO will come to town ... and then instantly switch to ACT ... and block new inc trucks

The point is that the troops should already be deployed in those areas where you know to place yourself and act. In RL, this would also be limited to the front, and you---as CO of the units in town, for example---would place them in those spots that you know are the best avenues of approach.

Would it be possible to make a kind of FMS that is persistent?

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If EWS was extended 2000m or 2500m you would have time to react/deploy, even ACT!  If the sound of incoming trucks was deadened it would give them a chance to get in closer and set an FMS, they get too close to get detected easily, or put a FMS in a common locale, that's on them.

My main difficulty in finding a truck is Friendly aircraft, friendly armor, and friendly trucks are 3X louder and almost immediately drown out the sound of approaching enemy trucks.

I don't have a problem with a line "in the sand" that can't be crossed to keep the enemy from magically appearing in your rear area (unless they decide to jump out of a perfectly good airplane.) 

We already have people spawn in their 2nd account and have them sit in a bush to keep EWS active for 36 hours, why not have them spawn in and keep EWS active in a truck for 36 hours.

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Again, 700m is way to short to even began to have time to get 88s out.

Move truck EWS to 1000m.

 

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On 7/8/2019 at 10:47 PM, undercova said:

Players place FRUs in the exact same spots for years ... they did ... they do ... and they will do it in 95% of the attacks again.

Once a town name pops up for EWS ... I can instantly tell you the usual FRU spots for it.

You all act as if it is some sort of rocket science ... no it isn't. Once EWS pops up ... spawn a scout car or infantry and run towards one of the usual directions. Then run around town in a circle of 500-700m ... and voila you are able to spot every FRU. Spot it ... mark it on map ... flank it ... blow it up or call for support.

I've been able to shut down allied attacks single handedly because of this tactic and ofc my memory of their usual spots. Waiting for allied trucks to roll in and try it again over and over again.

 

There is a huge difference between ACT and REACT. I prefer to REACT to first EWS unless it was too obvious that an AO will come to town ... and then instantly switch to ACT ... and block new inc trucks

You are one scary dude!  Sure you wouldn't prefer to join the Allies?  :)

 

I think that 700m is too short, and I thought that when the discussion to shorten the ews distance was happening.  

I think that an AO should be set before a mission can be placed for a potential town objective.  This alone would give defenses time to prepare.  Having said that, as Undercova so ably pointed out, a defense alerted is going to be tough to have a battle with, let alone a successful battle, as FMSs will be killed quickly and efficiently.  Thus, I don't think setting an AO before a mission can happen is feasible.

I would support lengthening the truck EWS, and like some other players, I do not turn my engine off and glide into a position because I believe it is gamey, crappy gameplay.  I much prefer an organized attack where multiple trucks are leaving FBs soon after each other, and arriving nearly simulataneously, so that the Undercova's of the game can't kill an attack off all by themselves.

I also would be in favor of disallowing FMSs to be set behind the lines, i.e. I am in favor of FMSs being forced to be set within a 180 degree arc.  I am not sure those who believe 'defense has it too easy' would like this change to the game, though.

Too often the FMS, which was designed to allow battles to continue with less time-lag between being able to get back into the battle, are set with the intention of loading the town up with attacking troops before there can be a battle.  Too often, intrepid defenders kill the trucks and/or FMS before a battle can happen.  In either event, the BATTLES are suffering, and thus most players are at risk of suffering lessened gameplay as well.

 

S!

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