delems

Truck EWS to short, move out.

47 posts in this topic

On 7/7/2019 at 9:55 PM, delems said:

Less can be 1000 instead of 1500, doesn't have to be 700?
 

I setup my defense position the other day and timed it, was between 15 and 20 min.

Very hard to setup defense when you spawn in and enemy has MS 400m from town already.

And as tat says, when MS can be anywhere around town, not just from the enemy front line direction, it is even harder.

 

*** the morris was already nerfed

Crack me up, omgosh.....

So being reduced from 5000m coast to 1000m coast is a nerf?  Disappointed in you.

 

If your going to address the EWS then you should also address the audio, which currently does not allow for reduced audio due to terrain conditions, weather etc. And while I can't prove it, I think the way they reduced the coast range of the Morris last time was to increase terrain penalties, which in turn effects more than coast range. I have never played axis, so I have no idea how far an opel can coast, so maybe the answer is to increase that? I also think FMS distance should be tied to population balance and not some static figure like your suggesting. 

Not sure how doing what you suggest will improve game play, unless you want the campaigns to last a year each? 

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Morris fix was to the vehicle itself, not a terrain change in any way.

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I thought if you trigger EWS ...Defenders start to spawn in?

 

S! n8 British Country Command CoS

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It seems we're having a hard time with coming to some reasonable understanding of what we want to do. We made a series of changes to promote the improved possibility of mobile spawns being placed, through that we've seen more mobile spawn placements occur and more play options without downtime reduced.

Why are we interested in reverting the changes that has produced this sort of result?

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Because changing it from 1500m to 700m was to much.

We tried it, too close; let's try EWS at 1000m for trucks.

Can leave MS placement as is for now (other than ditch HCMS).

 

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3 hours ago, n8r said:

I thought if you trigger EWS ...Defenders start to spawn in?

Some period of time after EWS, defenders start to spawn in. I'd bet the more players online, the faster the reaction time is (someone has to notice the EWS, then despawn wherever they are, then possibly make a mission and spawn at the EWS town, what do you think the minimum time is, 1.5-2 minutes? Then they have to look, listen, get their bearings, and maybe check depots and AI, or the bunker. How far can inf move in that time?

Even if they spawned in the instant EWS went off, this defense is 100% reactive.

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*** Even if they spawned in the instant EWS went off, this defense is 100% reactive.

That is the point, you can't beat the attackers, it is too close.

Drive full speed into town, soon as EWS kicks (700m) cut engine and glide 300m or so, place MS.

Absolutely no way for defenders to spawn in when truck is at 700m going full speed and cutting engine to get into town and hear anything.

Hence, defender spawns in, and MS is already a mere 300 to 400m from town, with absolutely no knowledge of where.

(now try waiting another min or two for 88 to spawn, push to spawning noisy HT and hook up.... ei will already be in AB killing 88)

 

IF there were off sides areas where MS couldn't go (behind towns), maybe the 700m could stay, but I would argue still to short.

 

Yesterday I was the first person to spawn into Eind (on EWS hit), barely got out of my SP and started scouting and there was ei, at SE CP, before CPs even hot.

MS was 300m or so from SE CP - completely behind town......

 

Edited by delems

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What would be the outcome of limiting  FMS deployment to road surfaces only?

this could help increase situational awareness and focus battles, still allowing FRUs to be deployed in the fields. 

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Poor turtles

FMS limits are great like they are

Just stop feed the chronic turtles

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*** FMS limits are great like they are

Read better, we are talking about truck EWS.

 

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Just now, delems said:

*** FMS limits are great like they are

Read better, we are talking about truck EWS.

 

Same shat

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*** What would be the outcome of limiting  FMS deployment to road surfaces only?

Have to think it through a bit more, but offhand:

1) Your FMS would always be in AI range when you spawn.  Hence you get shot by AI.

2) Tanks/infantry would just go down roads to prevent them from being set.

3) Would never have ATGs in the field (no ATG off LMS), as they would have to spawn at the road.

4) Even if limited to road, you still couldn't spawn in fast enough to figure out which road... though AI may tell you.

 

**** Same shat

Need to think better too.

 

Edited by delems

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Delems says Truck ews bothers because they place a FMS . Limiting the area of deployment would help he said as well. That is exactly what I am speaking about 

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This entire discussion is based on frustration that comes from population imbalance. I sincerely hope it doesn't get harder to place an FMS during a lively attack and defense because of this.

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*** This entire discussion is based on frustration that comes from population imbalance.

Nope.

Even with even pop, as attacker, I can get an MS 400m or 300m from town completely silent and non-detected.

And that MS can be absolutely anywhere around town... even behind it.

This issue is defender has no time to get any bearing on incoming attack. (much less get 88 or dMS out)

You are right, in that it does exasperate a low pop defender.

 

Edited by delems
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Just now, delems said:

This issue is defender has no time to get any bearing on incoming attack.

This game needs more fog of war.

If it was me, I would remove EWS / AWS and white skulls.

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@delemsAI MG should indeed be removed. Not AI ATG as it would prevent unprepared setup.

limiting to one side FMS deployment is going to have number 2 as well. So be careful for what you wish for. There need to remain some possibility for suprizes since not everyone wants full scale combined-arms attrition battles. I support the idea to offer alternatives to truck placed PPOs but that’s another topic.

2) would sound however like a good outcome to me as it would require more teamwork , give better situational awareness, hence greater battle density, and still allow truck to tow ATGs outside the stronger FMS ZOC (with more fragile LMS) at their own risk .

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It's not pop imbalance (though that and low pop make everything worse in the game), and it's not "turtles," it's a matter of what the point of the game is, and what game mechanics need to look like to produced desired gameplay.

I attack, and I defend. I cap, and I defend CPs.

Attack and defense in this game are not in fact different, indeed, I'd argue that on a tactical level as a single infantryman, defense is less "turtle" than attack is, @matamor. How? The defender needs to clear the CP. So if the defender is killed, he has to assault the CP to clear it. When I am on attack, the hope is always that no one bothers to check the CP, and I cap it without ever firing a shot. Indeed most super-successful attack proceed in exactly that fashion. We run in, occupy the CPs, and the bulk of the town falls very quickly before the enemy realizes how many of us there are.

You now what my favorite attacks are? The ones where we take the town with nary a fight, and move the map for our side? Nope. I'd rather LOSE an attack but have it be an actual attack. I prefer fighting my way in, when we have a mass of guys moving towards town from the FMS and we get pinned, and we have to take out the LMG in that attic over there so we can advance a little. I like the towns with distant CPs we cap, then it becomes a real fight from that spawnable to the rest of town. I don't care about "winning" past the point that it's my motivation for going towards town (or to recap the CP if we're on the defensive side of that).

The point of EWS in game is that there are units in town, and those units would have pickets, outposts, and patrols. If anything the EWS is too weak. Oddly, I'm also in agreement that there is not enough fog of war, but that's because we have this split between what we should know as individual units, and the fact that we are serially spawning just 1 unit, and in fact every single unit in town should always be on the map, not crammed into a barracks. That's why we need prepared defenses---which simply means units in the field. EWS and AOs are meant to fake this fact, which we simply cannot do with limited players, a wide front, and a minimum number of players to establish even a picket level defense away from town.

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16 hours ago, XOOM said:

It seems we're having a hard time with coming to some reasonable understanding of what we want to do. We made a series of changes to promote the improved possibility of mobile spawns being placed, through that we've seen more mobile spawn placements occur and more play options without downtime reduced.

Why are we interested in reverting the changes that has produced this sort of result?

I think the problem is that you have one side that can glide a Morris in from a rather silly distance without being detected and now rather set up close to town. With the possibility of spawning an ATG that destroys pretty much every Axis tank with only 1 or 3 rounds plus blends in rather well. Couple that with that Allies get to sprinkle Brits all over the map at their hearts content , added with increased maybe now slightly lowered Matilda numbers. 

It can't be coincidence that 90% of all attacks come from towns that have a Brit brigade attached to it , or that the push is almost all exclusively in the North.

To think that not to long ago there were complaints that both fractions of the Allied player base didn't wanted to play together cause some didn't like the French forces but in the same breath also complained that the A13 was useless , well it all got fixed . Matilda got increased , the Morris can glide forever , EWS got shortened , and in most it not all French towns we find a Brit brigade.

It's just what I noticed and I'm sure I'm not alone.  The Morris glide rate has been addressed numerous times but  now with the ability to set an FMS closer to town then ever before it's advantage of that feature really shows.

Can't blame the player base of taking advantage of it who wouldn't .

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Just a point. There are a LOT of players who don't know the "usual spots" to set up FMSs. Sure, maybe a Morris CAN coast a long time, but unless I'm aimed at a spot that I have already planned to use for an FMS, I have to drive around and search for a (hopefully) good spot. Coasting is useless for that. With that in mind. and taking sound of vehicles in mind, I have rarely been able to set an FMS up within 1K. Any closer, and I have always (and I do mean always) been spotted before I've wasted my time trying to set up the FMS.

 

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Yeah, I know none of the "good spots" I look for someplace on the fly.

I think a lot of these issues would be fixed by a combination of on-sides rules for MSP placement, and that idea of MSPs that link to each other, with much shorter deploy ranges from the original unit's spawn point.

ie: Maybe a truck can make a heavy MSP (HMSP) that can spawn all the ATGs/AAA, but it must be within maybe 1 km of where the truck spawned. Then you spawn from HMSP, and can make an FMS a few hundred meters from the HMSP, max, then another a few hundred m from the last FMS, and so forth. When one is killed, it reverts to the parent MSP as the spawn point.  This means a camped FMS can be pulled, and the units start spawning a few hundred meters back towards the FB, and can break the camp and go back to the attack. Defensive FMS can also then leapfrog out of town. Smart attacks and defenses will have more than one ant-line of these, so that if the enemy is pushing against one ant-line, you can nip off their advance from the flank by blowing an FMS a few links back, and the forward ones disappear.

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