Elfin

Gamey versus Not Gamey

Gamey or Not Gamey?   45 members have voted

  1. 1. Some players have decided to park vehicles directly in front of the spawn point of their enemies forward mobile spawn. What do you think?

    • Gamey (i.e. poor game etiquette, cheating-not 'real' kills etc...)
      33
    • Not Gamey (i.e. all is fair in love and war...and especially on line gaming)
      13

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

87 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, SCKING said:

 

Here is an idea.. When you are running low of HE and you have no one around to help you, how about backing away then so you have some shells left to defend yourself as you retreat? You obviously know where it is and finding them is typically the hard part, not destroying them. In my mind, you staying, with no backup and running out of HE, is just as irresponsible as you feel the people who placed the FMS without defenses around the spawn point.

 

 

I am sure @OHM and @HICKSEY will confirm that if your vehicle is on an infantry spawn point, you will get warned, kicked and possibly banned if persistent enough no matter what you think of the design or what you think should be done to protect it.  

Redesigned has been internally discussed previously but currently is not something we have the man power to do any time soon. 

You do that and I'll be saying good bye to the game.  We have been asking for a LMG on the Stug forever and you guys can't manage it. And I run into FMS more then I really care for but I'm not backing out so a ATG can shoot a track off and then I get sapped or zooked. 

Then I have to say the  [censored] poor design of the FMS you guys came up with , but all you guys have for an answer is warning , kick and ban . Sure threaten with a  ban of a player that has supported the game since 2001. Just because you guys can't think ahead and maybe consider that a Tank that has no INF fighting capabilities like the STUG has only that one option as a defensive measure. 

You say finding is the hard part , I got news for you I find them on a regular basis when I sit in a Stug . Most times I'm far enough away . But when a Engineer comes you can bet your [censored] that I will use what ever means I have and the game allows me to, to get that Engineer to fulfill his task.  And if that means I assault the FMS with my weapons platform then so be it.

 

FIX IT. And stop threatning players with BANS .

 

 

BTW  I used that tactic maybe 2 or 3 times , once as a PAK 36 supported by Agave as a Sniper he picked the guys off I missed ( FMS was pulled ) no precious Engineer needed imagine that. The other 2 times was a Stug , but I don't park and stop, I keep moving .  Cause as far as I know a ATG or a AAA does not die by a vehicle just sitting there. I believe it clips into parked Tank and actually has easy pickings of the Tanks crew then.

 

Redesigned has been internally discussed previously but currently is not something we have the man power to do any time soon

 

Are you telling me you guys can't add 3 tank barricades  around where the INF persona would spawn  kinda like this.   X. X..

                                            X  

And in between the INF spawns .

Can even be this.    X.     X.

                                  X.      X.  

So INF and ATG and AAA can spawn in the middle without having to worry that a Tank is spawned right there.  Hell you guys can make it even so that one's own ATG or AAA can walk right through it while the enemy can not . Eliminating the occasional ATG Spawn killer. 

It would be a temp solution till you guys can find the time to maybe redesign it . 

Edited by dre21
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A vehicle sitting on your FMS killing ei as they spawn just means you have lost all ZOC of the area.

You don't deserve to keep the FMS up, it has been overrun, pull it.

Not much different than a LMG sitting 20m from the FMS killing ei as they spawn is it?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, matamor said:

Jesus Warping Brigade System (c)

peter-drowning2.jpg

Ok..this was funny.

S!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, delems said:

A vehicle sitting on your FMS killing ei as they spawn just means you have lost all ZOC of the area.

You don't deserve to keep the FMS up, it has been overrun, pull it.

Not much different than a LMG sitting 20m from the FMS killing ei as they spawn is it?

 

Did you miss the part where it's impossible to know what's going on if you try to spawn in and die before you can even render visually? If it happened to me...I'd try again a couple of times...if it kept happening, I'd have to assume my game was screwing up...That requires me to

1. Shut down the game.

2. Reboot my system (Why take chances?)

3. Check the game files for a virus.

4. Reload the game.

This is about a TWENTY MINUTE process. If I'm not really into the game... the odds are it's better for me to call it a night and reverify all my drivers as well.

Killing other players in such a manner doesn't always let them know they are camped. It IS a great way to make them worry about their computers and game files though, and to get them completely out of the game for at least half an hour. Multiply that by say two regular players and 2-3 new players...well them, you have got 2 regulars out of the game for 1/2 an hour or more and potentially guaranteed that 2-3 of the new players find something else to play and post a "very buggy game. I couldn't even spawn in. 10/10 Would uninstall again" review on Steam. Congratulations!
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get killed before I know what's going on at an FMS all the time. If I get killed at an FMS, I post a note to the mission chat that the FMS is camped, and spawn elsewhere.

Why would anyone spawn to that multiple times, then assume it was a problem and reboot? You just spawn someplace else, and if that works, it's clearly camped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, tater said:

I get killed before I know what's going on at an FMS all the time. If I get killed at an FMS, I post a note to the mission chat that the FMS is camped, and spawn elsewhere.

Why would anyone spawn to that multiple times, then assume it was a problem and reboot? You just spawn someplace else, and if that works, it's clearly camped.

I get killed at an FMS all the time but there is a visual and I see that I got killed. INormally when spawning into a spawn camp, there is at least 1 second to know you have made it into the game. But when someone is doing what is described...it can prevent that verification. THAT is the issue. If I'm trying to spawn in and can't make it all the way in to GET killed...then to me that is a tech issue.

Several years back when I was new, I started to spawn into an army base. But I died. I didn't hear sound... just dropped dead inside the spawn. I attempted to respawn about a dozen times... sometimes I just went black... sometimes I ragdolled...my graphics flipped all over a few times. I did hear a couple of explosions, but died so fast to tell if they were related, and they were a staccato sound, instead of a big one. As far as I could tell I never fully spawned in.

I reloaded the game and tried again... same thing... My response was to delete the game and reinstall and check my whole system... but I didn't get on again that night.

The next day I found out that an ET had a firing bug and had somehow got the right angle to just whammy the inside of the spawn point like a giant HE LMG. But I had no way to know that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL, they clear that up for you Dre?? suppose they coulda suggested you stop using the stug till it gets a MG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, matamor said:

It's like saying that JWBS serves no interest to defenders to stop being rolled during low pop. 

There is no equivalence between both ; one brings stealth, JWBS brings infinite supplies.

Several equivalences, above all unearned movement of supply to avoid fighting except at point blank urban fights.

 

One player operates both so other players don't have to, and take less manpower to defend/attack.

 

Puts emphasis on the individual instead of the team.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's more gamey are mobile spawns without on sides rules. Since I guess that never changes, maybe they can change the FRU and FMS models to this:

860-header-Tardis_BBC_Television_Center.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, rockhit said:

LOL, they clear that up for you Dre?? suppose they coulda suggested you stop using the stug till it gets a MG

Nope, but I have no issues to take it up the ladder .

@Quincannon.   I guess that why we have the spiral camera once again so you can see what is going on after you die.

I personally don't like the death spiral camera , it gives one information that one should not get you , you just died .

Maybe a snapshot  but not a rotating death cam that rotates outward for 5 seconds. 

 

And what Tater said , spawn somewhere else. You spawned into the same spot over and over again trying to get a different result without double checking a different area. I would say that one was on you .  It be like driving a Truck the same route over and over just to get killed at about the same spot , it's be silly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, dre21 said:

And what Tater said , spawn somewhere else. You spawned into the same spot over and over again trying to get a different result without double checking a different area. I would say that one was on you .  It be like driving a Truck the same route over and over just to get killed at about the same spot , it's be silly.

When I spawned into the same spot YEARS ago. I didn't know what was happening. I thought that I was not completing spawning in. Why does no one get that? If I had understood that I was spawning in and then dying...I would respond appropriately. If I believe that the spawn in is not completing properly,,,that is then a TECH issue with the game, and requires a different response. One does not respawn somewhere else in response being unable to spawn into the game in the first place... which is what I believed was happening at that time. I had no one to ask questions... Try to realize that before saying it was "on me." I was a brand new player dealing with something I didn't know was possible. If it appears to be a tech issue... why would I try to spawn somewhere else? If any other computer program doesn't seem to work right I reboot it. Why should this game have been any different?

It's one thing to completely spawn in and then die. It's another for the spawn in to appear to not complete, and if this is complete with incomprehensible graphics... it will make no sense and may appear to be a bug or glitch, especially if you are new to the game.

TRY to imagine you are a FIRST day player (This is my baseline for considering how any of this crap really affects the game)  Imagine being NEW and trying to spawn in for the first time, and not only not being able to do so, but then seeing the camera swirl around and it looks like you are inside a tank...The graphics make no sense. You didn't get into the game and THEN die... OK you try that again... same result...no spawn... swirling graphics of the inside of a tank? (IF you know what the inside of a tank looks like) You weren't inside a tank...why would you be seeing inside a vehicle? You were trying to spawn a rifleman... OK maybe you try one more time... the same thing happens... You are now convinced that something is buggy and you can't log in... you don't know anyone in the game... You CAN'T ask questions. You don't know how yet. At best maybe you should delete and reload this new game... Maybe something didn't load right... At worst you say " the hell with it" and delete it and move on. Either way, your first impression of the game is a bad one.

Preventing new players from spawning into the game at all is bad... it only takes one bad experience to lose them.




 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, dre21 said:

Nope, but I have no issues to take it up the ladder .

@Quincannon.   I guess that why we have the spiral camera once again so you can see what is going on after you die.

I personally don't like the death spiral camera , it gives one information that one should not get you , you just died .

Maybe a snapshot  but not a rotating death cam that rotates outward for 5 seconds. 

 

And what Tater said , spawn somewhere else. You spawned into the same spot over and over again trying to get a different result without double checking a different area. I would say that one was on you .  It be like driving a Truck the same route over and over just to get killed at about the same spot , it's be silly.

What he is saying and I can confirm, that when a vehicle is parked in the spawn area. You go black instantly and in spiral death came the vehicle does not render so you have no idea what killed you. When you die by bullet, you get sound audio and a indication you are camped. Not so when you insta-die to a parked vehicle. Therefore some ppl might think thier connection is bad or the game is bugged. I know you have done this in the past, I know because you were one of the stugG drivers I have killed spawning a AA gun to clear you. Matter of fact you were "stuck" on my AA gun and could not back out.  That being said, the RATS have clarified the legality of the maneuver.  I have not complained about the maneuver because it's rare, and because it's is usually easy to clear. The aa and atgs do not die and when you spawn, you are completely clipped inside the vehicle. You can see the crew so you shoot them. Sometimes you hit the ammo and they explode. Don't do that lol. At times the hulk stays and you spawn in and get stuck in the hulk. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, dre21 said:

Nope, but I have no issues to take it up the ladder .

@Quincannon.   I guess that why we have the spiral camera once again so you can see what is going on after you die.

I personally don't like the death spiral camera , it gives one information that one should not get you , you just died .

Maybe a snapshot  but not a rotating death cam that rotates outward for 5 seconds. 

 

And what Tater said , spawn somewhere else. You spawned into the same spot over and over again trying to get a different result without double checking a different area. I would say that one was on you .  It be like driving a Truck the same route over and over just to get killed at about the same spot , it's be silly.

Driving over inf is fine, But the parked and not moving on the spawn point is pure Bs and you know it. The "touch a tank and you die" model CRS has implemented, pure BS. If you don't like the fact your precious stug has no defense against ei, then don't go out un-escorted by support inf (which by the way is how it was done). Tankers cried so much about sappers and their ability to take out tanks so they got a patch to help out. And what do they do with it? 

Edited by nc0gnet0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, nc0gnet0 said:

Driving over inf is fine, But the parked and not moving on the spawn point is pure Bs and you know it. The "touch a tank and you die" model CRS has implemented, pure BS. If you don't like the fact your precious stug has no defense against ei, then don't go out un-escorted by support inf (which by the way is how it was done). Tankers cried so much about sappers and their ability to take out tanks so they got a patch to help out. And what do they do with it? 

I'm torn here, I actually hate that the game requires camping by design.

On one level, I hate exploits like this, but honestly, the problem is the touch a tank and die thing.

Let the vehicles do this (park on spawns), but eliminate the rule that touching one is death. Everyone is happy. Tank spawns on MSP spawn point, place my rifle charge inside tank that I spawn inside, problem solved.

Edited by tater

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, nc0gnet0 said:

Driving over inf is fine, But the parked and not moving on the spawn point is pure Bs and you know it. The "touch a tank and you die" model CRS has implemented, pure BS. If you don't like the fact your precious stug has no defense against ei, then don't go out un-escorted by support inf (which by the way is how it was done). Tankers cried so much about sappers and their ability to take out tanks so they got a patch to help out. And what do they do with it? 

Historically tanks and ATGs were coated in contact poison and so this is accurately modeled.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kilemall said:

Historically tanks and ATGs were coated in contact poison and so this is accurately modeled.

That must have really sucked for the operators of the tanks and ATG's  ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, tater said:

I'm torn here, I actually hate that the game requires camping by design.

On one level, I hate exploits like this, but honestly, the problem is the touch a tank and die thing.

Let the vehicles do this (park on spawns), but eliminate the rule that touching one is death. Everyone is happy. Tank spawns on MSP spawn point, place my rifle charge inside tank that I spawn inside, problem solved.

Yup, that is one way to fix it. That way the game no longer allows the practice (as Dre21 suggests). And when the tankers complain, CRS can point to this thread and Dre21's response. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, nc0gnet0 said:

That must have really sucked for the operators of the tanks and ATG's  ;)

They were given ladders to get in, but they didn't get ladders to get out safely, that's why our tankers don't leave and take risks rather then certain death touching the poison.

Very consistent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

They were given ladders to get in, but they didn't get ladders to get out safely, that's why our tankers don't leave and take risks rather then certain death touching the poison.

Very consistent.

Explains why they took so long to repair, and where often scuttled. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*** If you don't like the fact your precious stug has no defense against ei

Issue is, the IIIG should have a MG to use, it doesn't.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, nc0gnet0 said:

Yup, that is one way to fix it. That way the game no longer allows the practice (as Dre21 suggests). And when the tankers complain, CRS can point to this thread and Dre21's response. 

Yeah, this leads to the exploit of spawning inside a tank, but in this case it would be the CHOICE of the tank to be exploited.

I assume that there is a head shake if you try and deploy a FRU inside a tank, right? So at least it cannot be exploited the other way.

Oh, and give the STUG any MGs it should have (that sorta goes without saying). Regardless, I don;t think the solution to the clear problem of no defensive weapons on one kind of armor is to screw up infantry/ATG spawning. (also, I've said before that with some improvements to ATGs, and on-sides MSPs, etc, I'd get rid of AT satchels).

Wait, another thing. The Stugs need MGs, but you know what else lacks any defensive capability at all, that it certainly, organically had it? All the ATGs and AAAs. Every single gun crew was armed. All of them. Rifles, pistols, SMGs at the very least (and semi and even some full auto M! carbines for the US, which we utterly lack). So while the stugs have every right to complain about a lack of MGs, every single ATG for every country lacks the extra crew positions that tanks take for granted.

Edited by tater

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know Tater out of all you make sense and I can agree with you the most.

To Nog ! you say don't go unescorted , yeah buddy easier said then done, how many did you have yesterday trying to get that FB ?  Was you and another that was it and I recall you died tons of times but did you give up nope.

I don't seek out FMS so I can drive onto them and kill EI that spawn . I actually stay back and use HE and if in need AP rounds.  Not once have I parked a Tank .

Most times it's by sheer luck or should I say being unlucky that I come across one , sometimes I'm so close that when I come across one that I don't have much of an option. Remember I did this drive back and forth thing TWICE and I stand by it . Now if I would have a MG this would be not even a discussion but CRS doesn't give me that option . So many times I curse cause I could surpress a FMS with a mounted MG , but I have become very effective using the Main gun as a INF killer. Why do you think the HE audit was sorely needed in game . Cause inches , feet mattered what a HE round did. 

 

@Quincannon

Fair enough I guess when you are brand new to the game and run into it I guess one could think the game is screwed up .

I forget sometimes that not everyone has been a long time player.

 

Having said all that , I came up with a simple solution to the issue , not one other player has come up with a solution,  just complaints and then pointing fingers and telling others to go out with escorts and whatever else. 

The ball is in CRS court , and banning players is not the answer. 

The answer is .

A . Multiple spawns being able to set via 1 truck. 

B. Separate the 2 spawn points INF and the other ATG and AAA as 2 separate ones both deployable by one Truck . 

C. Simple redesign by building anti tank barricades around the Spawn point ( like outlined above in the other post)  could even be a half circle around the FMS where ones unit can go through it but the enemy can't , to prohibit  ATG do the park camping. 

D. CRS has given us the tools via PPOs maybe build Tank barricades ,but of course that would take away from getting to the action and who wants to build stuff when pissing and moaning on the forum is so much easier and maybe in turn we can get a few players banned cause I don't like what they just did cause I was to inept to do what is necessary to protect the FMS ( sorry to be so blunt and that might have just hurt your feelings. )

Myself i like option A ,B and C the best after all its CRS FMS design and their responsibility to fix it , leave option D for the ones that want to build additional protection.

Thanks for reading .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, dre21 said:

You know Tater out of all you make sense and I can agree with you the most.

To Nog ! you say don't go unescorted , yeah buddy easier said then done, how many did you have yesterday trying to get that FB ?  Was you and another that was it and I recall you died tons of times but did you give up nope.

I don't seek out FMS so I can drive onto them and kill EI that spawn . I actually stay back and use HE and if in need AP rounds.  Not once have I parked a Tank .

Most times it's by sheer luck or should I say being unlucky that I come across one , sometimes I'm so close that when I come across one that I don't have much of an option. Remember I did this drive back and forth thing TWICE and I stand by it . Now if I would have a MG this would be not even a discussion but CRS doesn't give me that option . So many times I curse cause I could surpress a FMS with a mounted MG , but I have become very effective using the Main gun as a INF killer. Why do you think the HE audit was sorely needed in game . Cause inches , feet mattered what a HE round did. 

 

 

Fair enough, you say you don't do it often, and I have no reason to disbelieve you. It's the practice of doing it, and the attitude you portrayed that I took offense too (that it should be allowed). I pointed out the only reason it happens was do to a patch/fix that was implemented to make tanks harder to sap. Taking advantage of this fix in such a way is the very definition of "gamey". 

If a tank parks on the spawn in point of the fms, at the very least spawn in should not be possible, but not result in death. A better solution would be for the spawn in to happen at an alternate location (back or side of fms, or inside). 

As for yesterday, that was me, and the other me (only one). With a major shout out to Drake1 to finish the job in the air. I'm not a stat player, never will be. Not good enough to be ( I am a good enough shot, but my old eyes always struggle to locate targets). I just figured that I was tying up 2-4 good axis players who would most likely be on the offensive for a good amount of time. In my book that is a win, small as it may be. And btw, I did get that FB (not sure if you were still defending then, think you were?). 

As for the Stug having an lmg, ok, model that in game. While were at it lets model in the reliability factor and maintenance down time for tanks as well. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, nc0gnet0 said:

If a tank parks on the spawn in point of the fms, at the very least spawn in should not be possible, but not result in death. A better solution would be for the spawn in to happen at an alternate location (back or side of fms, or inside). 

Excellent points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.