tr6al

What happens when you shoot someone

44 posts in this topic

just ran into a cp , from main door , looked right, then went left into room with closet . Turned around ,and there was one of my team in the right corner , I had glanced right upon entering, and there was nothing , but a sec or so in, and he appeared . If it was a enemy I would have been dead . I will guard bunkers cause you have a little chance there . but CPs I will not guard , if they are blown up I can guard from outside looking in , but that's not always a sure thing.

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1 minute ago, xohorvath said:

And this is also very true. Many do not consider the possible LoS available. I agree with you in that regard. 

I do disagree with tater, but that's personal preference: I greatly enjoyed guarding CPs.  I didn't find it awful at all. 

Man you used to drive me nuts, you must know every crack and crevice that gives just enough view into a cp window. I spent hours hunting down some of those to see how you got me but it was always ligit :)

 

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4 minutes ago, OLDZEKE said:

Man you used to drive me nuts, you must know every crack and crevice that gives just enough view into a cp window. I spent hours hunting down some of those to see how you got me but it was always ligit :)

 

Yes sir, <s>.  =) Play long enough,you learn those angles and how each town is built and the available LoS options. Say the town and the CP I can tell you how to clear it.

Me loved the Cp defending.--------and driving people nuts. =)

(And I apologize for making it seem as if I was coming "at" you, as the kids say these days.) 

 

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What I hate about guarding is being in the CP. Trapped in this tiny space, with incredibly limited FOV. On attack at least they have to come for you, it's a bit bizarre that defenders have to clear the building, but attackers don't. The progress bar is extremely counterintuitive, BTW. I was in a CP the other day that we owned, and I thought I was resetting it after killing a couple ei, and there was an ei downstairs and they capped it. I swear it was doing what it usually does, too.

Anyway, guarding would still be a thing with open CPs, but the guarding would be done from a wider area, allowing the CP defenders (in the case of CPs the attacking side are also "defenders" of the CPs they have capped!) to pick their ground to control the area.

Edited by tater
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21 hours ago, OLDZEKE said:

I've did a lot of guarding. When I still had time to play and my eyes could stand hours in front of a monitor I guarded a lot. Back when we had the offset issue that came in with 1.35 I saw a lot of "got shot and only saw shooter in the death cam" as well as shot through walls, shot him and he didn't die etc. We found issues, coders fixed issues.

I've not seen this issue, I've used the buzzard to observe players that were reporting invisible killers and every time it was a player well hidden but with LoS to the reporter.

Clearly some are seeing a issue, we are trying to also find a way to experience that issue so we can replicate it for DEV so they know what to look for and or at.

I'm replying as straightforward and clearly as I know how. I try to answer questions to the best of my knowledge and abilities as I feel players need to at least know we are listening. 

But, when it get to the point my posts are ill received then I'm done.

 

Sorry, but when you say you have not been able to replicate it, it came across to me as being dismissive. 

I am not speaking to the invisible player appearing out of nowhere issue here (that does seem to be occurring less).

I can clearly see the player in question, clearly see I shot first, clearly see I hit him (multiple times) and yet he still manages to fire on me (after getting shot) and we both die. 

Not speaking about LOS matters either (although the body parts sticking through walls continues to be a huge pet peeve of mine, you should not die because someone shot you in the foot/leg that was magically sticking through a brick wall)

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I try to be very careful in all my responses on these forums, discord, facebook as well as ingame. These capitol letters are heavy at times, I can no longer joke or act silly in chat, game or forum because every word is weighed against possible leverage to discredit. I don't go onto discord when ingame anymore for the same reason. 

I try to be informative and helpful as best as I can. Written text is never a good substitute for face to face conversation, too easy for wrong assumptions simply due to differences in writing styles and or difference in the ways we compose thoughts in writing them.

I'm a volunteer, I don't get paid for any of this. I do testing, I search through the game itself to figure out/reverse engineer how parts of it work as well as assist art, dev and production in whatever ways I can because it gives me a means of satisfying my curious nature as well as keeping my mind active. 

I'm not a coder, have no formal computer  type education. I'm a 65 year old former coal miner, disabled due to a mining injury many years ago. What I've learned computer, code, art wise has been self taught due to a insatiable curiosity about how things work.

 

Now as to the issues discussed. Part of testing involves discovery as to how to replicate a issue. This gives the devs a definitive starting point. That's not to say dev does not look at issues without replication but that having  defined replication steps greatly speeds the process up.

"I can clearly see the player in question, clearly see I shot first, clearly see I hit him (multiple times) and yet he still manages to fire on me (after getting shot) and we both die.  " The auto despawn was added to help reduce this, it's still being refined. Netcode3 is also a step in reducing this, you'll notice it's disabled currently as it's causing far too many autodespawns and needs refined some more. It's greatly improved, it still needs to be better.

Feet sticking through buildings.... Yea it's not a good thing that we desperately want to have fixed and have had several folks attempt. Vehicles, buildings, terrain all use the same type model. Their colliders are created with the model, to put it in a very basic way you simply select the pollys of the wall or vehicle to be the collider (that's from my layman's view of what I've been shown while watching art work). Vehicles are more involved as each collider has a armor value.

Infantry though are a different type model, use a different collision deal that is not as adaptable. 

The speedtrees are also a different type model and use a capsule type collider. this is why some trees seem to have a "forcefield" coming out of them. they are broadbase and taper but the collision capsule does not give the option to taper it. Some have a bend in the trunk, the capsule does not have that ability, it will only expand by width and length.

These are limitations that we hope to grow past soon.

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In close quarters combat outside of the cps you must keep moving so the other guy cant hit ya center mass...inside cps pick a spot and control the means of egress and entry's...the rest becomes easy tbh i think everyone who runs upstairs might as well just nade themselves because they have little to no chance of survivability up there against players who know what they are doing....i always aim low and fire up from the legs and that seems to do that trick

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What oldzeke means by "being able to replicate " is that we need to be able to follow the steps that we are told and end up with the desired results . (whatever you are having issues with .)

If we can't do that , it makes it extremely hard if not impossible to track down the issue you are having and then  passing that on to a programmer with the logical steps to reproduce that issue.

If we can log in , do a few things and repeat it to get same results , we can then get it sorted .

That would then have a ticket created with the steps to reproduce the problem , and it would go into the list of hundreds of other tickets and  would get prioritized according to ease of repair and importance .

Edited by tr6al

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 I had a .45 machine gun , sprayed guy in cp, seen blood  ,I run off , he's still alive and I charge in and he kills me . I  don't understand how a ei can take 3-4 hits in torso and still live . 

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1 hour ago, tatonka said:

 I had a .45 machine gun , sprayed guy in cp, seen blood  ,I run off , he's still alive and I charge in and he kills me . I  don't understand how a ei can take 3-4 hits in torso and still live . 

This kind of problem does seem to be happening quite a bit more lately.  Myself and Hastien (I believe) were in a town the other day.  I was cutting a bunker we were capping, he was in it.  Allied infantryman runs across the courtyard and is reported to me, I see him (I'm laying at an angle the bunker door) and open up.  Blood flies everywhere, I count about 10+ LMG hits on him from my gun.  He keeps running and gets into the bunker.  I call out that the EI made it into the bunker.  Hastien, a rifle, shoots him twice in the chest, blood on the wall.  The EI kills Hastien and stops our bunker cap. 

This kind of stuff is driving my nuts because it's not the first time it happens nor does it seem to be an isolated incident.  It isn't like it's happening all the time, but it's frequent enough that it's starting to get to me (and quite a few others)

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On 12/4/2019 at 11:12 AM, OLDZEKE said:

I try to be very careful in all my responses on these forums, discord, facebook as well as ingame. These capitol letters are heavy at times, I can no longer joke or act silly in chat, game or forum because every word is weighed against possible leverage to discredit. I don't go onto discord when ingame anymore for the same reason. 

I try to be informative and helpful as best as I can. Written text is never a good substitute for face to face conversation, too easy for wrong assumptions simply due to differences in writing styles and or difference in the ways we compose thoughts in writing them.

I'm a volunteer, I don't get paid for any of this. I do testing, I search through the game itself to figure out/reverse engineer how parts of it work as well as assist art, dev and production in whatever ways I can because it gives me a means of satisfying my curious nature as well as keeping my mind active. 

I'm not a coder, have no formal computer  type education. I'm a 65 year old former coal miner, disabled due to a mining injury many years ago. What I've learned computer, code, art wise has been self taught due to a insatiable curiosity about how things work.

 

Now as to the issues discussed. Part of testing involves discovery as to how to replicate a issue. This gives the devs a definitive starting point. That's not to say dev does not look at issues without replication but that having  defined replication steps greatly speeds the process up.

"I can clearly see the player in question, clearly see I shot first, clearly see I hit him (multiple times) and yet he still manages to fire on me (after getting shot) and we both die.  " The auto despawn was added to help reduce this, it's still being refined. Netcode3 is also a step in reducing this, you'll notice it's disabled currently as it's causing far too many autodespawns and needs refined some more. It's greatly improved, it still needs to be better.

Feet sticking through buildings.... Yea it's not a good thing that we desperately want to have fixed and have had several folks attempt. Vehicles, buildings, terrain all use the same type model. Their colliders are created with the model, to put it in a very basic way you simply select the pollys of the wall or vehicle to be the collider (that's from my layman's view of what I've been shown while watching art work). Vehicles are more involved as each collider has a armor value.

Infantry though are a different type model, use a different collision deal that is not as adaptable. 

The speedtrees are also a different type model and use a capsule type collider. this is why some trees seem to have a "forcefield" coming out of them. they are broadbase and taper but the collision capsule does not give the option to taper it. Some have a bend in the trunk, the capsule does not have that ability, it will only expand by width and length.

These are limitations that we hope to grow past soon.

Fair enough, I apologize and let us start over. 

However, I think now that a few more have chimed in claiming the same thing, and it's rate of occurrence, your starting to get a picture that this is a real thing, and that it is happening enough to be concerned about. And in my opinion, it is one of those things that should shoot straight up the priority list, as, it effects capture mechanics.  

I am not sure why you cannot duplicate it, and I don't know what you have tried. How do you attempt to duplicate game play (on your local machine) between two players (serious question) that reside on different continents? The simplest of explanations is this is a lag issue because the Kill registers are done on each players local machine, and then sent to the server. My guess is no time stamp is applied, so the game server has no idea which actually happened first (in real time). I will actually go as far as to say that even though on my machine, I clearly shot first, what the opposing player saw on his machine was quite different, and he has no idea what I in fact saw. 

if this is in fact the case, then the only way to correct the issue is a tighter restriction on connection requirements. That opens up a whole new can of worms. Do you now not allow these players to play the game? Hard question. But, acknowledging the problem exists brings into question the way that spawn delay and capture timers are implemented as well. 

"Feet sticking through buildings.... Yea it's not a good thing that we desperately want to have fixed and have had several folks attempt. Vehicles, buildings, terrain all use the same type model. Their colliders are created with the model, to put it in a very basic way you simply select the pollys of the wall or vehicle to be the collider (that's from my layman's view of what I've been shown while watching art work). Vehicles are more involved as each collider has a armor value."

I'm not letting CRS off the hook for this one so easy, sorry. I get the issues with trying to fix the fact that feet do render through buildings, and one would think that the opposing player being able to get a fix on his position was advantage enough, but the fact the opposing player can stand outside a building (impervious to fire from the poor soul inside with his foot sticking through brick) and shoot him in the foot AND GET A KILL SHOT is complete and utter  .............   Why would a shot to the foot kill you is my first question? 

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I use 2 pc and a mac. I can run multiple accounts on the pc's. Mac there is a way but not worth the effort. 

I use software on one pc to induce lag (high ping) or packet loss, or both by percentage. I can do this inbound/outbound or both, TCP or UDP packets. This leaves the other pc and mac operating under normal network conditions. 

I can use the ping command to verify what its doing or wireshark which is a connection diagnostic tool.

 

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49 minutes ago, nc0gnet0 said:

I'm not letting CRS off the hook for this one so easy, sorry. I get the issues with trying to fix the fact that feet do render through buildings, and one would think that the opposing player being able to get a fix on his position was advantage enough, but the fact the opposing player can stand outside a building (impervious to fire from the poor soul inside with his foot sticking through brick) and shoot him in the foot AND GET A KILL SHOT is complete and utter  .............   Why would a shot to the foot kill you is my first question? 

This has always been odd to me---the infantry damage model. I get the impression from playing that shot placement is far more important on tanks than people. Aside from how awful it is that people clip though walls, it is odd that one shot in the toe is instant death, yet other times I get peppered with SMG fire, and while wounded, even really badly, I don't die.

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*** I can run multiple accounts on the pc's. Mac there is a way but not worth the effort.

At times, I run 3 accounts just fine on my mac.

FPS suffers of course, ping seems no change.

 

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I think there is a big problem with the multi accounts , IE:   

Axisplayer (who i know is good clean player) no lag out of the ordinary   , he then logs his other closely named accounts in , and the trouble starts, i know of maybe 4-5 axis guys with mulit accounts and they are fine when one is online without the others.

 

I can do the same thing, log in 2-4-6 accounts on the mac and my god your not going to kill me before i have entered your bunker and mowed you down then i drop dead.  Its why i dont use multi accounts anymore , i didnt know it was happening until i was told and it started happening back so i started testing things.

 

It can kinda be tuned , by that i mean , say i am running 2 accounts in a big city, one of the accounts has to look into a wall of at the ground so the other account dosent get auto despawned , the more you let one account look at textures ( which drops FPS and increases ping) the worse other account is , this tuning if you want to call it that is  how you can make yourself extremely slow to register a death .   hope that makes sense . 

 

Another thing i was testing out, was make both accounts lag to the point where they are about to both auto despawn , one account was a tank and one was an inf, i walked the inf to the centre of the AB and switched to the other account and drove the tank towards him, and both screens were apx 20-30 seconds out of sync,!  (just like years ago when we would tow an ATG , we would be at the rear of the truck towing us , next thing we rubberbanded way back and forth)   and neither account was autodespawned.

 

i also think that running the game in multi accounts off the same machine makes  issues with the sound and some how correlates to the out of sync issues , i mean i assume sound and hits are the same thing? one triggers the other?  and if thats the case , on one machine with multi accounts , you got on both personas sharing  both lots of sound,  slowing the ping down as well.   it almost feels to me like before a crucial packet is sent back, its held back by something from multi accounts running on one machine before its sent, because the correct message get through , just very late.

 

maybe the way to test this properly is someone like me from across the world , and one of the guys i know lags like a mule when running multi accounts play another and both   machines monitored and videoed , i am sure as [censored] that will give you the replication you guys cant seem to find with your testing.

 

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9 hours ago, delems said:

*** I can run multiple accounts on the pc's. Mac there is a way but not worth the effort.

At times, I run 3 accounts just fine on my mac.

FPS suffers of course, ping seems no change.

 

How can you be so sure? It is completely possible in the scenario we are talking about that the laggy player isn't even aware of what is happening, because he is only conscience of what he sees on his machine. 

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12 hours ago, nc0gnet0 said:

How do you attempt to duplicate game play (on your local machine) between two players (serious question) that reside on different continents?

The QA team has players on 2 continents and 3 countries while we are testing ( as an FYI ).

Problem is mainly that we don't have enough testers on at the same time to test anything under population load except on live server .

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10 hours ago, grunt768 said:

I can do the same thing, log in 2-4-6 accounts on the mac and my god your not going to kill me before i have entered your bunker and mowed you down then i drop dead.  Its why i dont use multi accounts anymore , i didnt know it was happening until i was told and it started happening back so i started testing things.

I only have one account, and my ping is great, and I bet the other night Axis guys were complaining about me. I went into the SAB bunker, there was a guy behind the crate downstairs---who I assumed was the guy who killed me when I left the bunker---I shot him with my rifle (I was prepared to shoot someone when I went into view there). I then ran right into the radio room, assuming it was empty (stupid). There were TWO guys in there, and I shot both of them, having to reload the bolt rifle in between, lol. No nade, no smoke. One or both were in map mode, presumably.

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