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IloveGod12

Unfair advantage

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IloveGod12

I don't mean to be a complainer but I have noticed some stuff that should definitely should NOT be in game. For example the Germans already have the Tiger tank, last I checked the only way they should have the tiger is if it is to be 1942 in game already, which I doubt. Now with the tiger tank, last I checked it could not one shot any tank it came across including heavy tanks. And if you don't want to make that historically accurate why don't you add the mechanical malfunctions which included tracks breaking for no reason or possibly just stopping because the engine is busted. Also it has been brought to my attention that tiger tanks would also light on fire due to the fuel system. Now if you want an example that these German tanks are overpowered how is it my Churchill tank had every single crew member killed from well over 300 meters  not sure the exact distance. Now to make it even worse I had fired at least three times to get the range and had missed. This tank turned and on the first shot killed everyone. So I grab another and get killed before I leave the army base. So how is that possible in a heavy tank. I have used the B1 heavy and have taken multiple hits without dying or loosing a single crew member. The B1 was made BEFORE the Churchill meaning the Churchill should be stronger. NOT IN THIS GAME. All I have to say is FIX IT.

Edited by ilovegod12

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delems

It is tier 2 in game, so 1942, the Tiger belongs. (type .rdp to see tier)

No vehicle in game has malfunctions coded.

An 88 gun firing at 300m is very devastating, prolly tear the turret right off most tanks of the time.

Check armor value of the tanks your are spawning (turret, hull, side), and check the penetration of the gun that is hitting you.

Tanking is very hard in general, lots to learn.

 

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OLDZEKE

Churchill tanks have a good bit more armor than the B1bis. The round, distance it travels, angle it hits all play into penitration.

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matamor

Axis has 18% TOM more than Allied so far this campaign.

This is the only real unfair advantage I see.

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goreblimey

Wow, Just a reminder of how little new players know about this game. 

Talk to your squad mates, I know ur in ATEAM. They could have sorted u out pretty quick.

 

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IloveGod12
2 hours ago, delems said:

It is tier 2 in game, so 1942, the Tiger belongs. (type .rdp to see tier)

No vehicle in game has malfunctions coded.

An 88 gun firing at 300m is very devastating, prolly tear the turret right off most tanks of the time.

Check armor value of the tanks your are spawning (turret, hull, side), and check the penetration of the gun that is hitting you.

Tanking is very hard in general, lots to learn.

 

ok if it is 1942 there should not be that many Tigers yet, yes the 88 is very powerful but a Churchill has quite a bit of armor so to kill every single crew member on the first shot without knowing the range is a bit fishy. 

 

1 hour ago, OLDZEKE said:

Churchill tanks have a good bit more armor than the B1bis. The round, distance it travels, angle it hits all play into penitration.

So if it has more armor than a b1 but dies easier isn't that a problem?

 

1 hour ago, matamor said:

Axis has 18% TOM more than Allied so far this campaign.

This is the only real unfair advantage I see.

Ok first you play axis so you will never admit that your side is VERY overpowered. second why do you have more time on missions, BECAUSE WE DIE WITH THE FIRST SHOT FROM ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now to prove this I will bring up some examples. I dropped multiple HE shells on 2 different AT guns, neither one died. A tiger found me on shot tank dead. I am driving down a road get shot at by a PZ 4, I keep moving an shoot him in the side with an mg and AP rounds while moving, nothing happens. I stop my SHERMAN and the next shot from the PZ 4 kills everyone but the driver, the next shot did that. I shot a German with a sniper rifle within 2 feet of me, took TWO shots. How about the fact the MP 40 in game can shoot VERY far VERY accurately when its a machine PISTOL, GEE what weapon is similar the MAS 38 or 30 something cant remember at the moment. But this French machine PISTOL can barely kill someone within 50 meters and cant hit the broad side of a barn standing inside at 100. Also it has been brought to my attention that the German planes had a weakness. THEY COULD NOT TURN SHARP. yet I have been out maneuvered by every German plane possible and no matter how sharp the turn they always are right on my tail. EXPLAIN THAT. And lets put it this way if you say that I should report stuff like that or that doesn't happen well guess what YOUR A BUNCH OF LIARS AND DONT DESERVE TO BE RUNNING A GAME LIKE THIS CAUSE YOUR THE ONES RUINING IT BY NOT FIXING THE ISSUES YOU ALL HAVE CREATED BY TWEAKING THE GERMAN WEAPONS TO MAKE THEM BETTER THAN WHAT THEY WERE IN ACTUAL HISTORY.

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Kilemall
6 hours ago, ilovegod12 said:

I don't mean to be a complainer but I have noticed some stuff that should definitely should NOT be in game. For example the Germans already have the Tiger tank, last I checked the only way they should have the tiger is if it is to be 1942 in game already, which I doubt. Now with the tiger tank, last I checked it could not one shot any tank it came across including heavy tanks. And if you don't want to make that historically accurate why don't you add the mechanical malfunctions which included tracks breaking for no reason or possibly just stopping because the engine is busted. Also it has been brought to my attention that tiger tanks would also light on fire due to the fuel system. Now if you want an example that these German tanks are overpowered how is it my Churchill tank had every single crew member killed from well over 300 meters  not sure the exact distance. Now to make it even worse I had fired at least three times to get the range and had missed. This tank turned and on the first shot killed everyone. So I grab another and get killed before I leave the army base. So how is that possible in a heavy tank. I have used the B1 heavy and have taken multiple hits without dying or loosing a single crew member. The B1 was made BEFORE the Churchill meaning the Churchill should be stronger. NOT IN THIS GAME. All I have to say is FIX IT.

The spawnlist issues are another matter, but I think you have some serious misonceptions about tanks in general, and other issues with 'it's a game'.

 

Generally speaking you're not going to get breakdown rates like all heavy tanks 'should'.  Chars and Churchills broke down like Tigers did, because all three were pushing the limits of their chassis and reliability.  Players hate 'it just broke' outside of their control, so it's not ever going to be coded.

As to Churchill vs. Tiger, the one Churchill that is going to stand up to Tiger is the Churchill VII.  The Churchill III should be seen as sort of an 'assault TD' but it's front is not going to be proof against 88s.  Churchill VII likely won't at 300m either, but it's got the best chance of anything at range to frontally take a Tiger hit.  Churchill III will die to the Tiger so I wouldn't expect much survival advantage there.  Sherman 76 could survive at distance and at higher altitude then a firing Tiger, but the real solution to the Tiger is 17lbers on Fireflys, Achilles or ATG.

Can't compare Churchill to the earlier Char and Matty situation.  Those were heavy tanks paired up against too weak Axis guns that did not allow penetration very well.  Also, they tended to do a more overall armor scheme, most tanks since oriented their heavy armor to the front and mantlet and lighten up overall to allow faster movement.   And of course Chars and Matties die to 88 ATGs, so they were not invulnerable either.

Axis guys complain that their tanks die first shot I shot the other guy blah blah blah about 2-3x as much as Allied guys.  Part of this is modeling elements the Rats haven't fully implemented, part of it is being in a panzer doesn't make you a tank god, part of it is game that doesn't have RL infantry density so tank killing implements get unnaturally close and effective then the real world was.  That reality impinges on Churchills too.

 

Here is a pen calc calculator you can play with.  The Tiger gun is the kwk36 l/56 88mm, you'll eventually see that the best thing to do is angle your Churchill relative to the Tiger and either engage other targets or hope to get a lucky shot on the treads and spin it around, or that it gets stupid and gets too close while you are at an advantaged angle.

http://www.wwiiequipment.com/pencalc/

 

 

 

Edited by Kilemall

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Kilemall

You want to see what overpowered up German weapons look like, you should check out some of the competing games.

Right now I'd say some things are overpowered and some are underpowered on all sides.  That's cause the armor model isn't quite where it needs to be, so some things splode when they shouldn't and some don't when they should.

Thing is, weird happened in RL too, perhaps a tank weld was poorly done or a bad ammo batch came through.  Don't put yourself in the position where a hero turn with a Churchill is necessary or get it out of town before the battle gets that close.

WORK THE PROBLEM.

And don't assume you necessarily know what 'should' happen, a lot of what I'm reading from you sounds like History Channel pablum, of which both sides take big gulps of.

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delems

First, fine to report stuff.

Ok, a few things.

HE should kill ATG crew when fired at them; have to hit and usually just to the side.  BOTH sides say ATGs are odd now and then when hit by HE fire; not just 1.

Tiger is going to 1 shot many tanks if the panzer commander knows what he is doing.

French SMG is more accurate than mp40 at long range (imo); it does have more climb I think, but generally speaking, all the SMGs are similar - well, grease gun best, but I digress.

Depends which axis plane, was it a Stuka?  They have very tight turning radiuses.

Also, there are pilots that have been flying here for 10 years +, if anything, the air branch prolly the hardest to learn to do well.

I can assure you, gear for gear, allies outmatch imo overall; the reason it is tough right now for allies is as mata said, TOM  being 18% better for axis really helps.

It is always much easier to play/fight when your side has more bodies, regardless of gear.

 

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OLDZEKE

Only 2 units have the 88mm gun, both have range finders.

However most of us with many years ingame have learned, just through shear repetition, to range by the size of the target vrs the gunsight itself. We have folks that have been playing since release, 6/6/2001. 

Now if a 88 round penitrates a turret, or hull/crew compartment it may or may not hit a crew member. It's possible to miss the crew with the round itself, not common but possible. The spall created when the round busted through that armor though is flying off and it can wound and kill. Then you have the fact that most all axis AT rounds as well as some US are APHE, the have a HE component. If the shell dest pass through and out of the tank before that fuse goes off then you have all the shrapnel from that round. And it's all happening in a very confined space. And of course there is also the concussion from the round exploding inside that confined space as well.

 

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matamor
56 minutes ago, ilovegod12 said:

Ok first you play axis so you will never admit that your side is VERY overpowered. second why do you have more time on missions, BECAUSE WE DIE WITH THE FIRST SHOT FROM ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now to prove this I will bring up some examples. I dropped multiple HE shells on 2 different AT guns, neither one died. A tiger found me on shot tank dead. I am driving down a road get shot at by a PZ 4, I keep moving an shoot him in the side with an mg and AP rounds while moving, nothing happens. I stop my SHERMAN and the next shot from the PZ 4 kills everyone but the driver, the next shot did that. I shot a German with a sniper rifle within 2 feet of me, took TWO shots. How about the fact the MP 40 in game can shoot VERY far VERY accurately when its a machine PISTOL, GEE what weapon is similar the MAS 38 or 30 something cant remember at the moment. But this French machine PISTOL can barely kill someone within 50 meters and cant hit the broad side of a barn standing inside at 100. Also it has been brought to my attention that the German planes had a weakness. THEY COULD NOT TURN SHARP. yet I have been out maneuvered by every German plane possible and no matter how sharp the turn they always are right on my tail. EXPLAIN THAT. And lets put it this way if you say that I should report stuff like that or that doesn't happen well guess what YOUR A BUNCH OF LIARS AND DONT DESERVE TO BE RUNNING A GAME LIKE THIS CAUSE YOUR THE ONES RUINING IT BY NOT FIXING THE ISSUES YOU ALL HAVE CREATED BY TWEAKING THE GERMAN WEAPONS TO MAKE THEM BETTER THAN WHAT THEY WERE IN ACTUAL HISTORY.

First, no need to yell at me and at anyone here. Your little 372 kills in career doesn't give you 1/100 of these rights.

Both sides with numbers and both sides have their challenges. Allied won last 2 including the epic 169 win which I actively taken and proudly of. 

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IloveGod12
17 minutes ago, matamor said:

First, no need to yell at me and at anyone here. Your little 372 kills in career doesn't give you 1/100 of these rights.

Both sides with numbers and both sides have their challenges. Allied won last 2 including the epic 169 win which I actively taken and proudly of. 

Ok the reason I'm yelling is because I'm tired of this crap the axis cries like baby's till they get what they want. Allied doesn't say a thing. 372 kills, almost 2 months playing if you want people to stay set things back to being accurate. Yes both sides have strong points some have weak points but it should not be the Germans having the majority of the advantages and the Allied having one or two.

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OLDZEKE

Let's go easy guys, this is a moment to help with understanding, not brow beat. 

Each units has advantages and disadvantages, this is not red vrs blue.

In general the allied planes turned a bit tighter in a flat turn over the 109. The 109 has leading edge slats that deploy automatically ( that "clicking" you'll hear in a tight low speed turn in a 109). Those slats were to make it turn tighter but, they also cause increased drag and slow the plane down so generally speaking the 109 gets about 1 rotation flat turning before it wobbles and either has to straighten out of crash. Most 109 pilots ingame know it's far better to roll with the turn and keep speed. You'll cover more area but a big part of that area is climb and dive rather that dead flat turn so although you covered more area you did so in a smaller circle and you held onto more speed.  

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mcafeed

The Axis got Equipment Advantages because they whined because they lost a few maps.

3H and Pak 38 in Tier 0 for Axis was not right.

Now Axis get 4G, 3G and TIGER and Allies Have Sherman.  That is a joke.  Allies should have Tank Destroyer and Sherm 76.

Now axis get Pak 40 and Allies don't get the 17 lber or the M5.  Another joke.

 

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Kilemall

Frankly I haven't 'got' the spawnlists for the past two years anyway, one side or other advantaged I don't care, they don't seem to match up to me, and seem to have varying criteria I don't get.

But despite principles being practiced that I am not tracking on for either business or game purposes, my question is more to the players in general.

 

Do we have to balance exactly in every category of every nation every tier?

How close do we track on historical ratios and relative intro rates?  Nothing but?  Some?  None?

Do we allow for advantage in a category or two per nation per tier?  How much?

Do we want fast battles and town resolution?  A lot of back and forth?  Sustained drives?  Big battles?

Do we want big towns to mean big supply, relatively even supply, and what ratio garrisons to brigades?

 

Those kind of questions have to go into every spawnlist decision.

Answer those and spawnlist design can be done in short order.

 

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IloveGod12
2 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

Frankly I haven't 'got' the spawnlists for the past two years anyway, one side or other advantaged I don't care, they don't seem to match up to me, and seem to have varying criteria I don't get.

But despite principles being practiced that I am not tracking on for either business or game purposes, my question is more to the players in general.

 

Do we have to balance exactly in every category of every nation every tier?

How close do we track on historical ratios and relative intro rates?  Nothing but?  Some?  None?

Do we allow for advantage in a category or two per nation per tier?  How much?

Do we want fast battles and town resolution?  A lot of back and forth?  Sustained drives?  Big battles?

Do we want big towns to mean big supply, relatively even supply, and what ratio garrisons to brigades?

 

Those kind of questions have to go into every spawnlist decision.

Answer those and spawnlist design can be done in short order.

 

Ok I get it. I am putting this argument to rest cause this made a lot of sense. Is the game perfect no will it ever be perfect no is it the closest to real life historically accurate events yes so My apologies to all I yelled at and see you on the Battlefield.

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bus0

The day you kill Matamor with a rifle will be a good day, usually there very bad, trust me, you'll be on the losing side, repeatedly.

The day you kill enemy tanks of Dandare, Canukistan, Tieto, Rohmu or Dm79 etc if he ever comes back, will be a good day, usually you die repeatedly.

Before you even think of comparing equipment, try learning one and becoming proficient with that choice you make, but if you think you'll out-tank or out-kill these gentlemen, you'll be wrong on too many levels.

Learning curve is so big.

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IloveGod12
4 minutes ago, bus0 said:

The day you kill Matamor with a rifle will be a good day, usually there very bad, trust me, you'll be on the losing side, repeatedly.

The day you kill enemy tanks of Dandare, Canukistan, Tieto, Rohmu or Dm79 etc if he ever comes back, will be a good day, usually you die repeatedly.

Before you even think of comparing equipment, try learning one and becoming proficient with that choice you make, but if you think you'll out-tank or out-kill these gentlemen, you'll be wrong on too many levels.

Learning curve is so big.

Learned that today

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Kilemall
1 hour ago, ilovegod12 said:

Ok I get it. I am putting this argument to rest cause this made a lot of sense. Is the game perfect no will it ever be perfect no is it the closest to real life historically accurate events yes so My apologies to all I yelled at and see you on the Battlefield.

Oh, this is beyond you now.

I've been arguing this stuff for something like 18 years.  And I'm not done, cause I'm still not happy that the players OR the Rats are on top of their variables or how to keep the vast majority of us happy at the same time.

It's a crazy crazy quest I have no right to think has a solution, but I do.  I'm just not sure attitudes can change on either the Rat or player level.

 

A lot of the things you are talking about are primal screams everyone has, cause its so beautiful and so frustrating.  So we're there with you that way.

But there is a LOT going on that just a few weeks won't sink in, being blown up easy is pretty low on the list of Things To Get Upset About cause everyone gets blowed up except for the elite Bus mentions.

And they get beat too.  Just.  Not very often.

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kazee

welcome to game ilovegod

please note, we all went through the same learning experience, and even the most experienced vets die everyday many times to different equipment, it's just part of the game

My only advice would be... have the mindset that every piece of equipment in game will die to another. Its really not about the equipment but how you play with what you spawned in. Just try to realize that everything is a threat, eliminate the biggest threat first and move on. Even a rifleman is a threat the the best tanks because he will alert everyone of your presence

If you last more than 15 mins on one mission you are doing pretty good :) 

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dfire

Play axis a campaign and youll see it's not all sunshine and rainbows. I thought allied was sunshine and rainbows since I never played that side, but I changed my mind not long after. Both sides have things that suck and things that are good

Edited by dfire
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Elfin

As evident by this thread. This game can be entirely frustrating !!! For all players... except for the elite. (and no...not you matamor) ;)

Isn't that great. lol. :)

I can totally sympathize with lovegod's frustration.

16 years later I am still on a learning curve.

lol.

I am really bad at not learning this game.

:)

S!

 

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OLDZEKE

This game can make you pull out your hair, throw things, make your wife mad at you.

And it can be so addictive that you find yourself checking 6 while driving.....

18 ½ years in, for me, and yes it still can do all the above :)

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aef

Learn how to play as infantry till your comfortable and then move up to armor...try atgs as well and learn the soft spots on enemy armor which is usually as close as u can get to a 90 degree angle side shot or from rear...no hit points in this game its all about what your using and where your shooting

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dre21

So many points to hit on.

Yes the ATG and nailing it and not dieing is a pet peeve of mine that's why you will see every year a DMG model thread for ATG and AAA in here posted by me till we get that. Having said that I do on occasion play Allied and ran into the same issue hitting Axis ATG as I do Allied ATG just to see them deploy and take shots at me.

Now to the comment he turned and had an accurate shot on you.  Many of us Tankers know the distance just by looking at our target cause we have been doing it for years . Also if you ever sit in a German Panzer they all use the same target reticle ( look up Tigerfibel) there it will explain / show how Axis tankers can range targets just by using the target triangles we have in our scope.

 

As we have argued and Argued but in the end I think player numbers really drive this game and if one side is lobsided, like the Axis have now and last map the Allies it just elevates our misconceptions.  Of our equipment. 

So if you get killed in a Tank look up that player and see how long he has been with this game , that will tell you the real story . Don't look at overall kills /deaths , the stats are no where near the number that most of us have . Most have about thousands more but a few Stat at one time got screwed up in a bad way . Where players lost a ton .

Edited by dre21

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