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hawley

Green Tag Flying - My Experience

17 posts in this topic

Hello Everyone!

 

Although I previously played as a free-to-play player back in 2013, campaign 173 is my first time purchasing a premium subscription to the game. I started flying Axis in a BF109E-1 as almost a true green tag, and so far, it's been pretty fun. On Tuesday night, I finally scored enough points to be promoted by downing one of the game's best pilots, JCD04, and now I have access to the BF110! So if you see someone flying a BF110 in the middle of your furball in the next few days, it's likely me.

So far, I only have 2 observations.
The first is that most pilots assume you know how to fly and what they're talking about. Communication on Discord is good if you know which channel to join, but for anyone new to the game, there aren't a lot of clues on what an objective or target of a sortie is, how to approach a dogfight or furball, or the strengths and weaknesses of each aircraft. On YouTube, there are some helpful videos but not enough to be competitive with some of the pilots who have been playing this game for years.
The second is that, unless you purchase the premium subscription, you will ultimately be at a major disadvantage. As mentioned before, some of the pilots flying have been doing so for years and have already mastered aerial combat in the game. So combining their superior level of skill with superior aircraft will basically make it very difficult for a new player without a premium subscription to learn and have success with flying.

If the hope is for the community of pilots to grow with new players, it may be wise for the community and the game to setup players wanting to learn to fly for success. This doesn't mean implementing measures to put experienced players at a disadvantage or giving away the perks that premium players pay for for free. But it could mean for the current veteran pilot-base to reach out to green tags and inexperienced pilots when they notice one, and it could mean supplying non-premium members with a limited amount of advanced aircraft each day or week to play with in order to encourage further mastery of aerial combat within the game (and hopefully entice the eventual premium subscription).

 

Anyways, those are just some thoughts. Here's a link to the victory sortie:
https://stats.wwiionline.com/playersortie.php?username=hawley&sortieidin=154806

 

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This sort of thing is gold, I hope the Rats pay close attention to your perspective.

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In the 17 years I have played the game... don’t fly much. Killing a vet pilot is not like killing a vet infantry guy. Killing a vet tanker much less likely. However killing a vet pilot is sure luck. I myself  have killed jcd04. In my recollection I can claim 3 engagements were it was him vrs me where I  won. In those three I killed him once in the first 30 seconds, the other two lasted 1-3 minutes. When I flew axis my best day was killing rebel357 2x in two sorties. These were litterally a 2 second engagement and alone that lasted a few minutes.  Halsey is a ace pilot. Usually allied he has saved my butt on more than a few occasions. However when he goes axis I think I’m 1:7 to him. These guys rip me up period. All said and done, if you want to fly well, join an air squad.
 

Used to be cutting your teeth was the 110. The 109e1 is a superb fighter. The 110 is a dog compared to it in handling. last time I switched up I flew the 09e1 a lot, even in later tiers. There is nothing like getting a spit9 low turn fighting. Your engine will give you climb in a tight turn and y can pick them apart. While IMHO it’s the third best fighter in t0, it’s maneuvering puts it second t0 fighter vrs later tiered fighters. Get them low and slow.. gunnery is key. It’s only flaw is pew pew. You won’t kill as many as a cannon armed 09. However y chances of hanging in are vastly much better than the 110. 
 

I play axis for 5 years, switched up during year six between sides, found that the allies overall had more than a few deficits.  The primary was ppl. The very cause of boredom so many years ago. Set massive column, get to town and find three to five guys defending. Take town. The biggest fight was ourselves fighting to be the guy who mged the few defenders. We had guys even pull their tank in front of y to camp inf spawns in the AB.

 

Since then, I’m allied hardcore. My squad has gone axis, we started axis as 23pz. We cut our teeth as axis. We have friends who are axis, our roots are axis. However we will not ever go axis again. We got accused of going axis for pitty.  The road map has produced only axis equipment, no we deside to take the hard road. The difficult one. Let he lemmings and pzzys get thier cheap laurels. 

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The air community in this game will never grow. It'll stay roundabout where is right now with some fluctuations depending on time of year and circumstances. That is until all the olde farts start droppin' like flies. It will probably diminish a lot then. It is something you come to accept. If you still wanna learn to do well in the air, I'll link some stuff.

 

This is probably your best resource to learn how to fly and do well besides flying in-game and dying like a drone.

https://www.youtube.com/user/mabromley

 

Watch pertinent videos and apply them in your combat situations. Learn to spot commonalities between your engagement and his and how you can apply what he is telling you. Literally anything and everything you need to learn is in there. And, based on your remark of premium equipment giving the advantage, he is essentially flying a Hawk 75 and kicking peoples asses ( some of whom are in Tier 3 planes like the Fw 190 or later 09s)

 

Then it is just a matter of personalising and creating your flying style based on what you like to do. 

 

 

 

Edited by zippy33

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1 minute ago, zippy33 said:

Air community in this game will never grow

So long as the air game is treated like an after thought with infantry preferred over air then yes you're right.

'weather' and the 'fishbowl' that came with it destroyed QoL in the air. many others left due to AWS. combine these with issues like the D520s drag problems never being fixed, highly suspect spitfire damage models, 109s having their flight model destroyed, no gameplay changes, (insert laundry list of other issues) leads to player decline and lack of a reason for potential new palyers to leave other games.

this game could still be hands down the finest combat simulator on the planet. not holding my breath though.

 

also, wheres my macchi?

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7 minutes ago, madrebel said:

So long as the air game is treated like an after thought with infantry preferred over air then yes you're right.

 

this game could still be hands down the finest combat simulator on the planet. not holding my breath though.

 

All this is soooo accurate. The potential is still there. But, I've just resorted to playing ground for a past few years with some occasional hamfisting from time-to-time as I see fit. No point in swimming against the current. 

Edited by zippy33

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Good feedback and thank you for subscribing to support our game! I think our veterans are more than willing to help, but they're a bit disappointed with the lack of response when trying to reach out to players who need help. The ratio to effort vs response is staggering. How do we encourage new players to be more willing to reach out for that help and realize this game is hardcore / requires their investment? A question for the ages, another would be how do we at CRS make it easier for them to navigate and play without dumbing down the game?

A subscription will take you a long way in-game as it's designed that way to make sure we garner support to fund our operations (hardware, bandwith, software, personnel etc). 

In fact, Free Players no longer receive any aircraft intentionally because it's not only complicated to fly (particularly without a flight stick), but because they can get more support and are more likely to succeed (retention) on the ground. The initial trial of course opens up to them a lot (rank restrictions enforced), and that's intentional to get their initial interest / let them have an opportunity to try what they most desire.

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2 hours ago, XOOM said:

Good feedback and thank you for subscribing to support our game! I think our veterans are more than willing to help, but they're a bit disappointed with the lack of response when trying to reach out to players who need help. The ratio to effort vs response is staggering. How do we encourage new players to be more willing to reach out for that help and realize this game is hardcore / requires their investment? A question for the ages, another would be how do we at CRS make it easier for them to navigate and play without dumbing down the game?

A subscription will take you a long way in-game as it's designed that way to make sure we garner support to fund our operations (hardware, bandwith, software, personnel etc). 

In fact, Free Players no longer receive any aircraft intentionally because it's not only complicated to fly (particularly without a flight stick), but because they can get more support and are more likely to succeed (retention) on the ground. The initial trial of course opens up to them a lot (rank restrictions enforced), and that's intentional to get their initial interest / let them have an opportunity to try what they most desire.

I think after the steam launch us Vets came into the Forum and had a long list what we would like to see to retain said new players . 

Unfortunately nothing happened , and we still deal with the same issues.

I do also agree there should be beginner planes for new players.  Maybe make it so that if they spawn in one for the 1st time they get a somewhat of a tutorial where the 1st warning is , no joystick please don't attempt to fly , then it goes straight to the keymapper. 

Once that is done and they do attempt to fly they get a 3 plane minimum cause they are new with the instructions of the keymapper and joystick warning and that they get these 3 planes to try to take off .  Or maybe they get when they spawn in a trainer AI plane that is a mirror but will give instructions step by step how to take off. Once in air then ita up to them.

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Whosoever deleted the comment before dre's by another vet player offering his critique... Wow! Just wow! Why? It wasn't offensive, targeting a player, or rude. Was pretty constructive. Well, Playskewl gotta playskewl I guess...

This one will probably be deleted as well but yolo

Edited by zippy33

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Hawley, saw you on  couple of our sorties the other night.

Keep grouping up with JG51 and getting on our Discord with us.  We will be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.

If you are looking for a LW squad to join, just let any 51 member know next time you are on, and we will make it happen.  Would love to have you with us!

 

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Thank you for the feedback, gentlemen. 

Zippy, I'll definitely attempt to incorporate some of the lessons from that video (and his other videos) into flying.

 

On 5/13/2020 at 2:51 PM, XOOM said:

Good feedback and thank you for subscribing to support our game! I think our veterans are more than willing to help, but they're a bit disappointed with the lack of response when trying to reach out to players who need help. The ratio to effort vs response is staggering. How do we encourage new players to be more willing to reach out for that help and realize this game is hardcore / requires their investment? A question for the ages, another would be how do we at CRS make it easier for them to navigate and play without dumbing down the game?

 

Xoom, I think you have to identify your groups of new players and work towards figuring out the puzzle for each of them. In your game's case, I would assume you have 3 types of new players:

  • Casual players discovering your game on their own
  • Players who like war simulators (such as ARMA, for example) who understand the effort it takes to play a simulator
  • Players who may be friends of regular/veteran players of WW2 Online

 

Solely based on some of the input above from players willing to take the time to write a response (and likely care about the game), it seems that there may be some things regular/veteran players would like to see changed for the better of the game. Whenever you have a following, in general, you will have a base of hardcore/caring fans who will support you (This doesn't simply apply to gaming - think sports, businesses, churches, organizations, etc.). If you can support and satisfy this base of players, it will help you with the last group of new players as your regulars/veterans support you even more so. For example, when I first tried this game several years ago, the person who recruited me loved the idea of the game but continued to be frustrated by some of its shortcomings. In particular, in 2013 or 2014, there was a 1-3 second delay sometimes when shooting someone or being shot, and we would either shoot someone in game and then unjustly be shot back before the delay ended or vice versa. On principle, I couldn't spend money on a game that couldn't get the basics right, but now that this issue has been resolved, the veteran who recruited me resubscribed, I subscribed, and now that the game is, in my eyes, good enough, I am recruiting others to play. This is just one example, but hopefully that makes sense. Whether or not the requests/demands your regular/veteran player base are making are feasible from a cost/business and development perspective, I don't know. But I'd certainly encourage you to explore them if you haven't already!

 

Concerning the 2nd group of people, anyone who plays simulators should understand and embrace the time required to learn to play a game. They will simply need the resources (YouTube videos, guides, etc.) to learn the game and a community they can join to fully experience the game.

 

But concerning the 1st group of players - that's tough. You certainly don't want to make this a Call-Of-Duty style game where you spawn every 20 seconds and run around chasing stimulus after stimulus, but at the same time, I don't think this game is impossible to have fun in as a casual player. One of the strengths of this game is/should be its community and the fact that the game is player-driven (Attack Objectives, squad tactics, etc.). So, although a player needs to have some desire to play (which they do if they've chosen to download the game), the onus for reaching out to a player needs to also be on the existing community and game managers. Currently, besides seeing that there is a Discord for WW2Online, there doesn't seem to be much active recruitment by squads and no system to help place or advocate for players to join a squad and get connected/invested into the community. For example, when I created my user, I was invited by the person who recruited me. However, it wasn't until last Tuesday that I first joined my squad's Discord Channel, knew there was a group of them in there, or that it was their squad night! So maybe figuring out a way to emphasize the community, make it easier to engage with the community, or make it evident what each squad is doing and what they're good at. And make that evident within the game itself. Forums used to be a great way to do that, but they don't seem to be the way most other games have their communities communicate anymore.
Since you utilize a subscription model, you can't give away everything for free, but maybe providing 1 day each week where things are unlocked for free players may allow them to experience the game more and entice a subscription as well.

 

I'm just spitballing but hopefully this helps.

15 hours ago, KardehK said:

Hawley, saw you on  couple of our sorties the other night.

Keep grouping up with JG51 and getting on our Discord with us.  We will be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.

If you are looking for a LW squad to join, just let any 51 member know next time you are on, and we will make it happen.  Would love to have you with us!

 

Roger that - thanks!

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On 5/13/2020 at 5:15 PM, dre21 said:

I think after the steam launch us Vets came into the Forum and had a long list what we would like to see to retain said new players . 

Unfortunately nothing happened , and we still deal with the same issues.

I do also agree there should be beginner planes for new players.  Maybe make it so that if they spawn in one for the 1st time they get a somewhat of a tutorial where the 1st warning is , no joystick please don't attempt to fly , then it goes straight to the keymapper. 

Once that is done and they do attempt to fly they get a 3 plane minimum cause they are new with the instructions of the keymapper and joystick warning and that they get these 3 planes to try to take off .  Or maybe they get when they spawn in a trainer AI plane that is a mirror but will give instructions step by step how to take off. Once in air then ita up to them.

I have been one of the most out spoken critics over that last 19ish years, But I like the delayed AWS since ive been gone again, and the STO bombs and loadouts im just glad to see some positive progression still  wishing for the removal of Fisheye, Haze, and raising the render distance,  like when im watching tanks etc blink out of existence  I can see your point  with your green tag supply  I have seen 10 plane disappear in 5 mins, with green tag learning, but we were all there at one point.

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The fishbowl is on our list, we're definitely not a fan and we are trying to phase it out.

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To add onto what hawley said, a big difference for me, and many others who actually stayed on, was the engagement we got between the pilot community in the Hangar. The constant back and forth. It just simply isn't there no matter where you go. Sadly though, it isn't here either.

This is to address the thread about the forums being obsolete earlier as well Xoom. I don't have access to the Hangar, but from a trusted source it is a "ghost town" nowadays. Most of the current players don't engage in the Hangar. Personally for me, it was the back-and-forth banter between the community that drove me to stay on and feel included within the community. That aspect is simply nonexistent nowadays. There are no big forum personalities that make give the community or even side or squad an identity. Not like before anyways.

How many WBS Soliders have happened till date? Not a single one gave returning players access to premium forums and their comrades still in-game. The rationale behind this being, "We need players in-game, not in the forums". Hugely missed opportunity. Being in the forums is what gets people engaged with their old friends and current community, catch-up, exchange banter, and ultimately, back in-game. Moreover, it'll definitely help keep them there rather than just coming back, playing for a bit an then bugging off.

Regarding the original post about teaching people the strengths and weaknesses of planes in-game, how to approach a dogfight etc. I personally have spent countless, countless, countless hours on the training server and the live server when the training server was kaput or not practical with people, teaching. I never did it with complete greentags or new players unless I saw potential but with relatively established newcomers who had been playing for a bit. They definitely tangibly benefitted from the exchanges. However, none of them are currently in-game. Some of them are in other flight sims doing quite well, but not here. There are people who can do without the community/forums to keep their interest in-game, but there are a lot more who need such a thing to keep them interested in the game. If not even interested, just the proximity of keeps them in the loop. Where a return doesn't seem that daunting a prospect because they have stayed connected to the community. Rather than not knowing what the state of the game is like.

Modding the exchanges into dirt for the sake of new players makes less sense than not utilizing this great asset you have/had in the form of the air community in-game. I an many many others were new at some time and the exchanges were much bolder then and all it did was get us involved much quicker and integrated within the community. But, I know how much thought this'll be given so it is chill. I am in curfew and I got time to kill :P 

*someone who almost give $18 yesterday just to read the Hangar for a month, before realizing that there is literally nothing going on there.

 

Edited by zippy33

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On 16/05/2020 at 6:28 AM, XOOM said:

The fishbowl is on our list, we're definitely not a fan and we are trying to phase it out.

Being dumb here; what’s the fishbowl?

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19 minutes ago, jono said:

Being dumb here; what’s the fishbowl?

Ruh roh!

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Airwar- needs a set mission structure   nobody takes off alone  (unless there is a "recon" mission, with an unarmed plane)

                                                                   players gather in a ready room for a few minutes to get "ready"

                                                                   take off as a flight, with comms auto-tuned to that group ...

                                                                  only the flight leader gets comm from anybody else to reduce chaff on channel 

                                                                  flight leader goes down, goes to next guy on list

                                                                  if the flight isn't full at T0 then fill with AI planes that simply follow and give "check 6" messages                                                                               (like actual green pilots did)

                                                                  if somebody goes down, they can immediately take over one of the AI planes until the flight is     

                                                                  either  wiped out or RTB

                                                                  A "flight" of aircraft (fighters, bombers or transport) should be a mobile spawn point, allowing                                                                                 players  to stay in the game until the mission is complete or fails, none of the conga lines of lone                                                                             wolves that we see too often 

                                                                  This would keep those newbie pilots in the air longer, flying with vets as a group and instill a sense                                                                      of purpose to their flying ... plus if they get lost and die, they are auto-magically reunited with their                                                                    mates when they re-join via one of the available AI planes  

 

Edited by chry

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