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Jsilec

Is it boring?

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parsival74

Instead of penalising the active side, why not promote the trailing side at any given imbalance?  For example, if Allied are getting rolled in TZ3 open up the full equipment roster to all subscription players who select Allied, maybe boost the FTP Allied players to the basic infantry sub and then spruik that at log in.

 

Might make a few people want to log in as the under-performing team just to try out some shiny new gear on a multitude of targets?

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zippy33
5 hours ago, kilswitch said:

Thanks for the kind replies. I will keep grinding and learning.

In regards to new players (green tags?), I understand that it would get disheartening for the vets to keep reaching out and getting no response, but I would consider it more disheartening if you weren't reaching out and losing people who could be valuable members of the community. People are often shy (unlike most American's /wink), so reach out and if you don't get a response, reach out tomorrow. Once they find their feet a little and realise they need some assistance they might then respond. If they don't its not personal.

Although I'm no vet, it would be hypocritical of me not to follow my own suggestions, so I will help out and play my part where I can also.

Kil

Dude, your first forum post indicates that you have promise in the game. My first post resembled something like "Argh asd adadsadasdasdasdadasdasdasdasd". I wouldn't suggest even for a moment that I gauge your competence by comparing it to my incompetence, but I kinda am. ;) 

Although I cannot get in-game, but if you need help with anything, especially fighter/bomber things or even infantry, just shoot me a pm on here and I'd be happy to address your concerns and help you with whatever you need help with.

An ex-former noob who wasn't helped when he was brand spanking new 

Edited by zippy33

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delems

*** timers were not changed.  1 solo player can cap in 240sec (120sec if extreme lowpop, 360sec if extreme high pop).

Funny, just checked solo time over pop - got 456 seconds, or 7 min and 36 seconds.

So, if timers didn't change, then there is a big bug somewhere affecting capture timers.

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Kilemall
14 hours ago, kilswitch said:

Thanks for the kind replies. I will keep grinding and learning.

In regards to new players (green tags?), I understand that it would get disheartening for the vets to keep reaching out and getting no response, but I would consider it more disheartening if you weren't reaching out and losing people who could be valuable members of the community. People are often shy (unlike most American's /wink), so reach out and if you don't get a response, reach out tomorrow. Once they find their feet a little and realise they need some assistance they might then respond. If they don't its not personal.

Although I'm no vet, it would be hypocritical of me not to follow my own suggestions, so I will help out and play my part where I can also.

Kil

From one Kil to another....

What would be most helpful in your first hours....

 

1. Guaranteed text comms response

2. Built-in voice comms

3. More involved play through tutorial

4. In-game help/tutorial menus

5. Direct link to help forums to ask questions

 

Each one involves a different set of dev requirements and likely skills so prioritizing which direction for retention is important.

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sorella
1 hour ago, Kilemall said:

From one Kil to another....

What would be most helpful in your first hours....

 

1. Guaranteed text comms response

2. Built-in voice comms

3. More involved play through tutorial

4. In-game help/tutorial menus

5. Direct link to help forums to ask questions

 

Each one involves a different set of dev requirements and likely skills so prioritizing which direction for retention is important.

I would also ask Kilswitch and new players:

6. Help Channel ingame Chat: is this used or useful anymore? squad used to monitor if from before Steam Launch till few months ago, but within a few months after Steam it was dead. Anyone, noob or vet still use it or know of activity? Is is a still a Chat Channel default?

7.  Help (or Help, Tips & Tricks or New Player Help or There Are No Dumb Questions) Forum:  a separate Help Forum for any/all  new player questions - useful, useless or in-between?

Speaking of which, good comments like Kilswitch's post and the answers thereto get buried in threads like this, sort of like in Off-Topic - which is a disservice to both the OP and Kil. 

 

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Poker
10 hours ago, sorella said:

6. Help Channel ingame Chat: is this used or useful anymore? squad used to monitor if from before Steam Launch till few months ago, but within a few months after Steam it was dead. Anyone, noob or vet still use it or know of activity? Is is a still a Chat Channel default?

I probably answer between 3 to 5 questions on the help channel each evening I’m online - from the new to the not so new. Can confirm that it’s also still default.

Edited by Poker

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zwitek

Based on how many spawn depots and bunkers I tend to die in, I feel like I have some experience enough to share some thoughts on low pop play from an Allied viewpoint (spoiler alert- in 20 years, not much has changed).  Low pop can be some of the most exhilarating infantry battles that you can find.  Problem is, it's far easier as an attacker with over pop to mount an effective infantry attack.  Starts with 3 trucks.  Spawn infantry.  Moving in groups to support one another, and attacking depots that are usually unguarded with 2 or more infantry to speed up the timers.  Often times I'm defending an entire town with one or two other people. I'm usually alone in the spawn depot, one guy frantically looking for MS, and some random running around trying to recap the city depot.  I have had private little wars with Eagle, Crassus, and some others for weeks now, the only force multiplier that I get is the ability to respawn, over and over and over and over until hopefully attriting their numbers before they capture the spawn point.  The biggest difficulty that we face in low pop times, is more about the fact that there are less PEOPLE to actually mount effective defenses.  Let alone try to spare two guys to go blow an FB (preposterous during that time zone).  Now, this might sound like complaints, it isn't, I am seldom bored, ever.  Plenty of EI to kill.  BUT, and this is a HUGE one, it's more about behavior of players themselves during that time.  There are a few people in the game like @devboyand @aomercythat will ALWAYS check a depot, ALWAYS watch a bunker, or will never walk by an empty one and peeking inside.  What we need is MORE people supporting the lone guards, and not just ranting that they need more men to paradrop into Berlin or some such nonsense.  I'm having a ball in low pop, always has been my timezone even back in the day, and its challenging.  Its hard.  Its frustrating.  But it is FUN if you just pair up. :)  Missed you all a lot.  

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tater
37 minutes ago, zwitek said:

until hopefully attriting their numbers before they capture the spawn point.

I wish this had more of a real effect.

There's a real disconnect between the "operational" game (the "map" and the units on the map—BDEs and Garrisons), and the actual play. 50 guys in a nearly empty of supply Garrison would utterly destroy a few people with infinite, intermission-style supply, for example.

Wonder if units could be removed from supply as a function of pop balance? Ie: one side is OP 2:1. Defender kills an LMG, the attacker's LMG is KIA, plus another LMG is marked KIA and taken from the attacker's spawn list (so if OP by 3:1, anyone on the OP side is risking 3X the units?).

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saffroli
12 hours ago, tater said:

 

Wonder if units could be removed from supply as a function of pop balance? Ie: one side is OP 2:1. Defender kills an LMG, the attacker's LMG is KIA, plus another LMG is marked KIA and taken from the attacker's spawn list (so if OP by 3:1, anyone on the OP side is risking 3X the units?).

This is definitely interesting suggestion.

What I like about it is, the underpop side wouldn't necessarily even have to successfully take the town to make an impact, so any AO however failed, is still beneficial to future operations.



If underpop get into a camp position, and OP has SD then it would kind of cancel out some of the potential killing could occur and subsequent supply pain that would follow so I would suggest SD gets removed if a system like this ever comes in.

Edited by saffroli
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tater

I generally think resupply should be substantially slower, as well. If more BDEs need to be added, that's fine. the idea would be that the underpop, even if losing, can do meaningful damage to the enemy. If they weaken a unit enough, new BDEs might have to be rotated in.

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delems

If the campaign charts population indicated is close at all, the solution is easy.

Again, lock the in game world to 2 to1.

By that chart, there are only 3 hours a day where pop exceeds 2 to1; so eliminate it, players can still spawn in, just have to wait for a friendly to die.

 

And in fact, there are only 5 hours a day where pop exceeds 3 to 2; so, for a few hours a day (lowest pop), a few players can't log in immediately, they have to wait a bit.

Another benefit, the horrific SD and capture timers can be done away with.

Locking in game pop to 3 to 2 effects 5 hours of the game time, during low pop - and I'm guessing, once the low pop side realizes they won't be gang banged so bad, they'll log in more, meaning the over pop side players can log in more too - not wait for someone to die.

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Kilemall
4 minutes ago, delems said:

If the campaign charts population indicated is close at all, the solution is easy.

Again, lock the in game world to 2 to1.

By that chart, there are only 3 hours a day where pop exceeds 2 to1; so eliminate it, players can still spawn in, just have to wait for a friendly to die.

 

And in fact, there are only 5 hours a day where pop exceeds 3 to 2; so, for a few hours a day (lowest pop), a few players can't log in immediately, they have to wait a bit.

Another benefit, the horrific SD and capture timers can be done away with.

Locking in game pop to 3 to 2 effects 5 hours of the game time, during low pop - and I'm guessing, once the low pop side realizes they won't be gang banged so bad, they'll log in more, meaning the over pop side players can log in more too - not wait for someone to die.

So what happens to Potthead if he can't get in, or a player who lost connection and is locked out?  That seems good to you?

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delems

They can ALWAYS get in, just can't get into the game world itself to fight. (til someone dies or more enemy log in)

HC can still do stuff from the map, and again it's for 3 hours a day when 15 players are on.

How come we changing game for 15 players over 4 hours, and ruining the game for 100 players the other 20 hours?

Because of the way too many tanks and aircraft, and horrific capture timers (not to mention SD and EnterWorld bug), the only way to cap a town is for the other side to not show up.  Is that really the game we want?

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Kilemall
3 hours ago, choad said:

Well if potthead can't get in we take issue .... but if potthead2, potthead3, potthead4 can't get in then i guess that is just the breaks. 

Your point is kinda dull to be honest.

Not at all.

Potthead is a major leader for the TZ3 forces of whichever side he's on, it hurts content for him to be locked out.  Only one account is gonna be HC.

More to the point, a disconnect of anyone and then finding out Delems' rule kicks in and locks them out for hours will contribute more to unsubs.

Couldn't wait to see it happen to him TBH for pushing that thing, as much as he complains about timers having the ultimate 3-hour pop 'timer' would be something else.

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Kilemall
2 hours ago, delems said:

Because of the way too many tanks and aircraft, and horrific capture timers (not to mention SD and EnterWorld bug), the only way to cap a town is for the other side to not show up.  Is that really the game we want?

I agree that I don't trust the timer coding, but you got this backwards, the point is to get to pop neutrality THEN you make attack easier.

But it's just not fair and counterproductive to open up attack before then and make TZ3 worse.

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ZEBBEEE

not sure About that idea: imagine

*creates 30 fake accounts*

*spawn them all on the axis side*

*Rules the map with Allied  friends*

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potthead

 

Have FUN .. be patient... enjoy the game.. it is FUN as hell  in ALL Time Zones.. only those who DONT play consistently in ALL Time Zones think otherwise.. 

Sw1 can make an Allied TZ3 be a work of ART :)  so can many others!!! 

http://www.campaigncharts.com/

Just look at 164... 165.. 166  .... it comes and goes  on both sides.... and 169 shows it can even change in SAME map..  

it is all about attitude and wanting to win bad enough to stay awake longer... wars are not won from the comfort of ones bed...  it is 12:04 AM here .. im only 3 hours behind Server time zone now.. (well one day ahead hehe) .. and the GAME is RAGING fun!!!!  FB busts / factory sapping/ air wars!!! 

in 169 .. matamor as an example was awake late as hell to just tease and mess with Sorella2 i think :D it was fun to watch these 2 go at it late at night.. every single night.. 

my 2 cents anyways.. instead of trying to make one side log in less ... make the other side log in more!!! if they kill u and u feel there is not enough.. RAISE another soldier :D ... that is what i did every night in 164, 165, 166 and then later in 170+ ... and many many maps on Allies i think around maps 100-120 ish.. 

S! . Good night.. 

and NO . it is NOT boring!!!!!! if it was I would certianly NOT lose sleep over it and get yelled at by wife as i wake the kids up on discord!!

 

Each time zone has its OWN flavor! learn to ENJOY Them all. 

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dre21
10 hours ago, delems said:

If the campaign charts population indicated is close at all, the solution is easy.

Again, lock the in game world to 2 to1.

By that chart, there are only 3 hours a day where pop exceeds 2 to1; so eliminate it, players can still spawn in, just have to wait for a friendly to die.

 

And in fact, there are only 5 hours a day where pop exceeds 3 to 2; so, for a few hours a day (lowest pop), a few players can't log in immediately, they have to wait a bit.

Another benefit, the horrific SD and capture timers can be done away with.

Locking in game pop to 3 to 2 effects 5 hours of the game time, during low pop - and I'm guessing, once the low pop side realizes they won't be gang banged so bad, they'll log in more, meaning the over pop side players can log in more too - not wait for someone to die.

Horrible idea, I pay to play not stare at a a screen and wait till the game allows me to finally play. I want that I'll jump onto one of the other games I have on my PC and they get played very little , most times when the server is down or I only have 30 min to play and I need a fix and do 1 to 3 maps and go off again.

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delems

*** a disconnect of anyone and then finding out Delems' rule kicks in and locks them out for hours

Do you not read?  A player can spawn in as soon as a friendly dies (or despawns) in game, opening up a position for someone else to spawn in.

If it is 15 to 4; that means 8 axis are in the game fighting vrs 4 allies.   Yes, 7 axis have to wait for one of those 8 to die before spawning in.

But, my bet is, once the allies realized they won't just be slaughtered, another allied or two will stay in game and play.

Now it is 15 to 6, meaning 12 axis can play and only 3 are waiting for one of the 12 to die.

And, SD can go and those horrific capture timers can be removed or lowered.

Regardless, nothing else has worked, and, to be blunt, I'm getting terribly tired with the current mechanics (SD, Capture, EnterWorld bug).

The only way to fix a population issue, is to fix it, not go muck with all the other game parameters.  Fixing the tail doesn't save the head, we're trying to fix the tail, while the head is hemorrhaging imo.

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Kilemall
10 hours ago, ZEBBEEE said:

not sure About that idea: imagine

*creates 30 fake accounts*

*spawn them all on the axis side*

*Rules the map with Allied  friends*

Both sides have people that are convinced exactly that is happening.

I can't prove or disprove it, only you guys can.

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Kilemall
3 hours ago, delems said:

*** a disconnect of anyone and then finding out Delems' rule kicks in and locks them out for hours

Do you not read?  A player can spawn in as soon as a friendly dies (or despawns) in game, opening up a position for someone else to spawn in.

If it is 15 to 4; that means 8 axis are in the game fighting vrs 4 allies.   Yes, 7 axis have to wait for one of those 8 to die before spawning in.

But, my bet is, once the allies realized they won't just be slaughtered, another allied or two will stay in game and play.

Now it is 15 to 6, meaning 12 axis can play and only 3 are waiting for one of the 12 to die.

And, SD can go and those horrific capture timers can be removed or lowered.

Regardless, nothing else has worked, and, to be blunt, I'm getting terribly tired with the current mechanics (SD, Capture, EnterWorld bug).

The only way to fix a population issue, is to fix it, not go muck with all the other game parameters.  Fixing the tail doesn't save the head, we're trying to fix the tail, while the head is hemorrhaging imo.

Ahh, you mean like CinC wolf's Spawn Queue.

Eh, great, the whole overpop team gets 10-20 minute timeouts.

I'm sure that will work out JUST great, as unmitigated team cap timing blows out town after town, fast.

Even just flat time capture is guaranteed when the overpop team has time to kill off the underpop cappers and the underpop doesn't have time to clear the depot with more packing OTW from no delay.

I could see where that's attractive to you.  Too bad about the underpop, huh.  But hey, gotta have baby seals else no fun being a clubber.

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Kilemall
9 hours ago, potthead said:

 

Have FUN .. be patient... enjoy the game.. it is FUN as hell  in ALL Time Zones.. only those who DONT play consistently in ALL Time Zones think otherwise.. 

Sw1 can make an Allied TZ3 be a work of ART :)  so can many others!!! 

http://www.campaigncharts.com/

Just look at 164... 165.. 166  .... it comes and goes  on both sides.... and 169 shows it can even change in SAME map..  

it is all about attitude and wanting to win bad enough to stay awake longer... wars are not won from the comfort of ones bed...  it is 12:04 AM here .. im only 3 hours behind Server time zone now.. (well one day ahead hehe) .. and the GAME is RAGING fun!!!!  FB busts / factory sapping/ air wars!!! 

in 169 .. matamor as an example was awake late as hell to just tease and mess with Sorella2 i think :D it was fun to watch these 2 go at it late at night.. every single night.. 

my 2 cents anyways.. instead of trying to make one side log in less ... make the other side log in more!!! if they kill u and u feel there is not enough.. RAISE another soldier :D ... that is what i did every night in 164, 165, 166 and then later in 170+ ... and many many maps on Allies i think around maps 100-120 ish.. 

S! . Good night.. 

and NO . it is NOT boring!!!!!! if it was I would certianly NOT lose sleep over it and get yelled at by wife as i wake the kids up on discord!!

 

Each time zone has its OWN flavor! learn to ENJOY Them all. 

Great attitude and you more then anyone are getting the TZ3 Axis to success, I'm sure.

BUT.

What about your opponents on TZ3, who don't have a Potthead?  Or other TZs where you wouldn't have the time to organize and push like you do cause they are under stress the whole time?

I would like underpop Axis to be able to push as much as underpop Allies on TZ3, but the game inherently does tilt towards numbers winning, and it takes heroic leadership to turn it around.

When you run out of heroic leadership, then what?

Edited by Kilemall

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delems

*** I could see where that's attractive to you.  Too bad about the underpop, huh.  But hey, gotta have baby seals else no fun being a clubber.

You just don't get it.  I'm trying to help the under pop side by limiting the over pop that can be in game at once.  Can you not see that?

And yes, I wan't capture timers back to some sane level like they were for 10 years prior.  I want other TZs to cap stuff, not just TZ3 (either side).

And I want no SD until the Enter World bug is fixed.

The objective is to allow all TZs to capture towns and have fun, not just 3 hours where one side is grossly over pop.

Towns don't change hands unless there is huge over pop - that is a problem; that is because of SD and horrific capture timers. (not to mention some bad AB mechanics when bunker captured; and of course ludicrous amounts of tanks and aircraft)

 

 

*** Eh, great, the whole overpop team gets 10-20 minute timeouts.

Completely 100% false.

Only the part of the over pop team that is past the 2 to 1 limit gets a SMALL timeout, till someone on their side dies.

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Kilemall
13 minutes ago, delems said:

*** I could see where that's attractive to you.  Too bad about the underpop, huh.  But hey, gotta have baby seals else no fun being a clubber.

You just don't get it.  I'm trying to help the under pop side by limiting the over pop that can be in game at once.  Can you not see that?

The stress point is not 2:1, it's at 30% overpop.  At 30% pretty much the overpop side can attack a town with impunity AND kill off any attacks because they have extra people.  2:1 with no timer or other mitigation is still an Iwin button.

Quote

And yes, I wan't capture timers back to some sane level like they were for 10 years prior.  I want other TZs to cap stuff, not just TZ3 (either side).

And I want no SD until the Enter World bug is fixed.

The objective is to allow all TZs to capture towns and have fun, not just 3 hours where one side is grossly over pop.

I want other TZs to cap stuff too, the attack part of the equation needs to be goosed up as it IS too easy to defend if everyone can populate the defenses and not get local superiority on the attack.  Since we can't generate 2:1/3:1 supply/firepower advantage with brigades in most cases, or have to do exorbitant overstock runs, it's either a flashy fast getting foothold in town and a solid unbreakable grind, or move off and hope a fast switch allows for another fast try.

The game always has to be jiggered to allow for multiple ways to win, and for a long time it's been who owns TZ3.  At least Rats 2.0 is doing something about it, even if it's not there yet, and your plan doesn't solve it, it makes it worse and frankly I don't entirely trust your motivation if you don't see that neutral timers of whatever variety and 2:1 is an absolute crapshow then and all the other TZs that are affected.

Are you ready to have a 1.3:1 spawn queue?  Don't think so.  Then you won't really help with this system.

<Shrug> spawnlist in general needs to be smaller, that's one goose.   However, I'd say 'all the tanks' is to ensure people get a shot at driving one, be able to get to town as tanks are the scissors in scissors/rock/paper that allows infantry to close to assault across terrain, and to survive all those sappers and ATGs sprouting out from everywhere much less enemy tanks.  If the tanks are to be reduced, so does all of that AT equipment, then with the resupply timers as is towns would be readily hashed out fast, either the attackers lose their ability to close or the defenders are crushed and playing for alamo time for rescue forces or backline supply timers.  Lower it too much and not enough time for rescue FMS or armor columns.

Quote

*** Eh, great, the whole overpop team gets 10-20 minute timeouts.

Completely 100% false.

Only the part of the over pop team that is past the 2 to 1 limit gets a SMALL timeout, till someone on their side dies.

Spawn queue at 2:1, that's exactly what's going to happen.

 

Remember, the underpop side is desperately trying to do anything to win, including FBs and sometimes distract attacks/FB blows, so the ratio in town defense is often far worse then 2:1, or it is 2:1 and meanwhile the overpop is blowing FBs at a 2:1 or higher rate then the underpop.  But the relevant point to the 'someone dies' queue system is that you are likely going to have few defenders successfully killing off attackers, as they aren't even there in town or don't survive long enough to get kills or are spending time desperately recapping the now time-neutral depots.  So YES the overpop WILL be sitting on their spawn screens for far longer then any SD you have ever seen.

 

And exactly how much fun is it to basically tell the underpop, 'hahaha don't even THINK about spawning a plane or attacking', that's what no timer mitigation does.

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delems

*** Are you ready to have a 1.3:1 spawn queue?  Don't think so. 

Basically yes.  First map go 2 to 1; next map go 3 to 2.

You are talking 3 hours of 2 to 1 and 5 hours of 3 to 2 population based on campaign charts.

The idea is to stem the losses for those 3-5 hours, so the other 19 hours (and 5x population base) can actually have fun and take towns.

Regardless, hope you are right, as for me; I find the game less fun now.  I'm tired of 7 min capture timers, SD and Enter World bug.

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