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World War II Online is a Massively Multiplayer Online First Person Shooter based in Western Europe between 1939 and 1943. Through land, sea, and air combat using a ultra-realistic game engine, combined with a strategic layer, in the largest game world ever created - We offer the best WWII simulation experience around.

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Stg44

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stankyus
1 hour ago, drkmouse said:

so next allies will  doa  "hit" on a dif  unit till they win all the maps easy mode.... sad but true ( yes  i see the partne of those  nont stop on thelmg  then the 42 before that etcetcetc ) ye s   axis  5  mps  allies 5 mpas las t 12 campains  so  we evfen atm.....

Million man math there. 5+5 does not equal 12. Just FYI.

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delems

*** Million man math there. 5+5 does not equal 12. Just FYI.

Because it is 5-5-2.

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stankyus
7 minutes ago, delems said:

*** Million man math there. 5+5 does not equal 12. Just FYI.

Because it is 5-5-2.

That’s right I forgot, the Italian won two.

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tater

 

18 minutes ago, delems said:

Because it is 5-5-2.

Win/loss stats tell us exactly nothing about the relative strength of weapons in ww2ol, it tells us which side had the most players on a given campaign. Do the stats show campaigns where the numbers were basically even in all TZs, then we could compare who won those?

 

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krazydog
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, stankyus said:

I think what you are asking for has been discussion for a long time about adding stress to the ACs. The good news is that this team is working to get that done. Not sure how one thing means “well the db7” when we are talking about audits. You know it was not just the mg34 that got changed. It was all the lmgs. I hate to say it but the stress audit is going to effect all the planes too. 

Also, I should say that I respect your knowledge on hand-held firing arms etc..  And I really did not challenge you on anything technical you said but...

I think I made a couple of general points  that are relevant to this game, if you review my above posts I made these comments:

- Due to the very Limited supply of Stg44 in brigades (4 units!’?), and the fact that the are usually unavailable after the first 10-15 minutes of a battle, I don’t feel they are impacting the  overall tactical/strategic situation of the game.

- if we are going to make a historical gameplay argument, then I think there are a lot of other equipment in game that has been in game a lot longer  and needs an audit first

-There have been a couple of recent audits that have really affected the axis side more than the allied side:  the LMG audit and the Fg42 relocation back to Para only units.  And I think the Axis side will complain if another nerf-audit happens right now.

 I understand your intention was good to analyze the historical capabilities of the Stg44, but maybe a private message to the developers would make more sense, because I know where this thread will go now:  many allied players will have a lot of bad single encounters with the Stg44 in the next few days and they will scream for a nerf here -  even though the thread you started was very logical (you know this to be true).

I just decided that I am tired of all these nerfs back-to-back of axis equipment threads, and it was time for me to chime in here.    I held back my thoughts about the Fg42 thread, but another thread right now about axis equipment changes is too much - too soon for me.  And honestly I feel I needed to say something  here about that no matter how good the Stg44 is.

Cheers!

Edited by krazydog

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ZEBBEEE
2 hours ago, krazydog said:

This is good Xoom.   But I hope you guys are able to avoid double counting in game and on social media.

Also please make sure that Zebbee does not do another one of those too-narrowly worded question surveys which lead to biased results.

For example a survey question like:  “what infantry weapon would you like to see audited first?” would lead to inaccurate results.

I personally think its long been time to have an audit of the DB-7 for historical accuracy.  How would I answer a survey question like that?  

And if there is only just an “Other” option to fill in a DB-7 then the results wont reflect the true  thinking of players,  because many people will not think outside the A - B - C questions box.

Cheers!

If a question feels being too narrow, it will have been done on purpose as soon as it offers the answers "none of the above" and "no opinion". This gives a clear view about whether the suggested items were sufficient or not.

Some questions might have been wrongly formulated though. Please PM me whenever this happens. I have already planned to poll again old questions that were not relevant. Best practice comes with experience as well. 

Each answer rises 10 new questions though. 

Right now I just poll and compile the results in a large table organized per topic. your forum suggestions are screened and copy/pasted as well. So that each leader will be able to get a quick view of feedbacks and ideas. Since they are definitely smarter than I am, if a poll was misleading they will tell me as well. It does just help get your Axis or Allied voices through ;)

edit: So far only a few polls were flagged as "Extremely popular opportunities to think about", and made it into the game: bombers contributing to FB busting, faster cap timers, and sticking PPOs. It was not a 51 vs 49 majority, but more a 90 vs 10 one (all sides, all branches, all TZ combined). So don't worry about the counting.

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tater
Posted (edited)

 

9 minutes ago, krazydog said:

I just decided that I am tired of all these nerfs back-to-back of axis equipment and it was time for me to chime in here.    I held back my thoughts about the Fg42 thread, but another thread right now about axis equipment changes is too much - too soon for me.  And honestly I feel I needed to say something  here about that no matter how good the Stg44 is.

The StG 44 will still be the best small arm in the game regardless of a "nerf" as suggested by @stankyus. I put that in "" because making it accurate is not a nerf, it's making it accurate.

He's also said it should have range adjustment (it should).

Making it act more like it should (assuming it needs this) is not a "nerf" except to irrational people. There's a reason the AK copied this gun, then all other militaries eventually did in one way or another. No change to make it as realistic as possible will alter this fact.

EDIT: if the small audit he suggested was done, and range adjustment added, and you had an event with exactly even numbers of player on both sides with StG44 taking the place of Kar98s in the German list, vs the usual US, who wins that fight? I think the Germans do almost every time.

Edited by tater

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krazydog
1 hour ago, ZEBBEEE said:

If a question feels being too narrow, it will have been done on purpose as soon as it offers the answers "none of the above" and "no opinion". This gives a clear view about whether the suggested items were sufficient or not.

Some questions might have been wrongly formulated though. Please PM me whenever this happens. I have already planned to poll again old questions that were not relevant. Best practice comes with experience as well. 

Each answer rises 10 new questions though. 

Right now I just poll and compile the results in a large table organized per topic. your forum suggestions are screened and copy/pasted as well. So that each leader will be able to get a quick view of feedbacks and ideas. Since they are definitely smarter than I am, if a poll was misleading they will tell me as well. It does just help get your Axis or Allied voices through ;)

Noted.  I will PM you next time I notice this.

You  are right: the main thing is to improve with experience!

cheers!

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krazydog
3 minutes ago, tater said:

 

The StG 44 will still be the best small arm in the game regardless of a "nerf" as suggested by @stankyus. I put that in "" because making it accurate is not a nerf, it's making it accurate.

He's also said it should have range adjustment (it should).

Making it act more like it should (assuming it needs this) is not a "nerf" except to irrational people. There's a reason the AK copied this gun, then all other militaries eventually did on one way or another. No change to make it as realistic as possible will alter this fact.

Well axis have wanted an accurate DB-7 for over a decade now.  (Just an example).

Nothing has been done about it for over a decade.

Why should the Stg44 jump to the top of the fix list?

Most Avis players have not even touched the Stg44 weapon yet because its never in supply. - (There  are only 4 or so Stg44 in garrison supply).

This should not be a  P1 fix in my opinion - especially after fg42 changes that just occured.

cheers!

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stankyus
1 minute ago, krazydog said:

Well axis have wanted an accurate DB-7 for over a decade now.  (Just an example).

Nothing has been done about it for over a decade.

Why should the Stg44 jump to the top of the fix list?

Most Avis players have not even touched the Stg44 weapon yet because its never in supply. - (There  are only 4 or so Stg44 in garrison supply).

This should not be a  P1 fix in my opinion - especially after fg42 changes that just occured.

cheers!

I think a complete audit of the infantry weapons is paramount being the have the most impact. I think it is obvious that the StG 44 is incomplete. The very fact it’s missing adjustable sites should put it at the top of the list so it can be finished. There is no reason why they shouldn’t put it back into the game correctly. 
 

The CH5 cs tank went 4-5 maps without its adjustable sites. TBH, I’m not even sure it’s still in the game lol. Have not noticed it at all.

 

 The air audit is something they are working out with adding stress to the planes. That will also be coming. I am perfectly fine with that added feature. At least the are going to add it. So your concern about planes doing things they shouldn’t is going to be addressed. Like the infantry weapons, that is going to effect all the planes. 

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delems

*** with StG44 taking the place of Kar98s in the German list

Ya, all 3 of them...................

How about we fix some allied gear for a change, instead of axis?

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tater
1 hour ago, delems said:

Ya, all 3 of them...................

How about we fix some allied gear for a change, instead of axis?

You manage to somehow miss my entire point, either intentionally, or because you are too biased to care.

The StG44 is a new weapon in game. Presumably we want all new weapons to be to the same standard of accuracy. If it is not, then it needs fixing, precisely because it is literally a day old. Tweaking a single number if it needs that is easy, and there is no history. If they wait a few years, people will complain of the change, even if the change is 100% accurate to reality, because it will be different. And to my test event suggestion: It won't matter, the StG44 is certainly the best infantry weapon in the game if it is modeled accurately—nothing can change that.

As for Allied gear, again, there are whole classes of gear that have no Allied version whatsoever.

So just to make sure I know your argument:

Are you saying that even if you know the dispersion should not be identical between full auto and single shot, you are fine with that to "stick it to the Allies" over the DB-7?

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delems

First of all, I have fired the STG44, and the 2nd and 3rd shots do not go where the first bullet goes.  At least in my use.

Is it good, yes.  Are there many other pieces of gear that need to be fixed?   Yes.  Fix what we have first, once all the existing gear is fixed, then sure - audit the STG44 if need.  Are you not happy the FG42 is gone?  Sheesh.

 

*** there are whole classes of gear that have no Allied version whatsoever

Name them please......

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stankyus
Just now, delems said:

First of all, I have fired the STG44, and the 2nd and 3rd shots do not go where the first bullet goes.  At least in my use.

Is it good, yes.  Are there many other pieces of gear the need to be fixed?   Yes.  Fix what we have first, once all the existing gear is fixed, then sure - audit the STG44 if need.

Are you not happy the FG42 is gone?  Sheesh.

You realize the StG is incomplete? Why shouldn’t it be completed? When the new animation guy gets in or whom ever will be completing the new small arms. Wouldn’t you rather them start off correctly then having to revisit them down the road? Why intentionally Ignore that because the fg42 was placed back into the para brigades? I can Guarantee that we are going to get Axis ppl in here when they see actually how little the m1 carbine recoil is. I have shot the m1 carbine and I promise you, if it has to little or to much recoil I will say it here. There is a noticeable recoil to the m1 carbine, it’s about 1/3 less than the current stg44 we have ingame on semi auto. It has a short blow back cycle with a light bolt compared to the gas piston, bolt, bolt carrier group in the StG/Ak. It’s also accurate but I’d venture to guess that 300m probably its max effective range. The ballistics is very similar believe it or not to the 7.62x39 Iirc out to about 200m. It’s no slouch of a round as many would believe. It’s a very fun and pleasant to shoot. It should take the top spot in the smallest recoil for riffles. And it most likely will bring Axis players to the forums to complain.

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drkmouse
12 hours ago, stankyus said:

Million man math there. 5+5 does not equal 12. Just FYI.

you know what i was doing..    12 maps  5  axis  5 allies  2   tied... ( tied  each side gets  .5 win so yes 50%.... )

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tater
9 hours ago, delems said:

Name them please......

88

Dive bomber

Heavy bomber (111 is barely heavy, but Allies only have light bomber, the A-20 doesn't even rate a "B" from the USAAF).

All in the game since the very start, too, right (or was the 111 a little after the start?).

 

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tater
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, krazydog said:

Why should the Stg44 jump to the top of the fix list?

Because no new anything should be added that needs fixing. Add it in right the first time.

EDIT: BTW, I never said it needs fixing, I said IF it needs fixing, it should be fixed. I have no idea, hard to tell just from being shot at.

Edited by tater

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tater
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, delems said:

Is it good, yes.  Are there many other pieces of gear that need to be fixed?   Yes.  Fix what we have first, once all the existing gear is fixed, then sure - audit the STG44 if need.  Are you not happy the FG42 is gone?  Sheesh.

Don't release broken stuff, then wait decades to fix it, release it right the first time. Seems like a no-brainer.

Also, the FG42 is not gone, it's in the FJ units which it was designed specifically for, and was deployed in. They can be used at will.

 

BTW, should they ever get the M1 Carbine done, I would want that properly done right when released as well. Let people test it, if it's too accurate, whatever, then fix it immediately (if loads of testing is needed for people to wring it out). Partially in response to the StG 44, the M1 carbine was actually field converted to select fire (the M2 carbine)—the initial spec for the carbine before the war was select fire, but they adopted it as a semi to start (it was to replace 1911 pistols). Anyway, if that was goofy in full auto recoil, etc, I'd want that done right as well. Do everything right the first time.

Edited by tater

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madrebel
13 hours ago, tater said:

the ability to point that weapon is a function of the parallax between the front post and rear sight

mostly an issue with pistols that dont have a shoulder anchor point. sure, more distance between front and back sights will improve the MOA but at the ranges the stg44 is best used, it won't matter. further no weapon in game is required to deal with parallax the way they're modeled. 

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jwilly
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, krazydog said:

Well axis have wanted an accurate DB-7 for over a decade now.  (Just an example).

Nothing has been done about it for over a decade.

Why should the Stg44 jump to the top of the fix list?

I absolutely would like to see bomber-with-payload aerodynamics (DB7, Boston, others) fixed for better realism.

However, the "fix list" poll we're talking about was specifically requested by Hatch in regard to the new toolset and data format he has for infantry weapons. The idea is that a whole-infantry-weapons set audit would be a large undertaking requiring a full slot in the patch plan, but individual weapons are small tasks using the new toolset; therefore he hopes to get one or two weapons done with patches that nominally pertain to other work, if he can.

So, the point of the poll Hatch asked Zebbee to do is to be the infantry weapons "fix list" in a priority sense. If the community, overall, thinks that the Webley is the top priority for Hatch to review, then so be it.

Aircraft audits OTOH are individually large tasks, so the same opportunity doesn't exist for them. It'd be nice if everything needing audit or re-development was a small task, but that's not reality.

That seems like a great approach to me.

Edited by jwilly

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jwilly

Also, note that Hatch said nothing about the StG 44 being at the top of his infantry weapons audit list. That might have been said by some forum participants, but what Hatch said is that he'd pay attention to the poll he asked Zebbee to do.

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Poker

I came up against this in the hands of a skilled opponent tonight and got my arse well and truly whipped!!! 

I’m glad you guys haven’t got a ton of them available, that’s for sure! :lol:

See ya on the field...I’ll be the guy running away from you! ;)

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Jsilec

Its lethal i have not fired it yet but i am sure i could do some damage with that thing

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canukplf

it sounds funny and it dies easy.

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foe2
4 minutes ago, canukplf said:

it sounds funny and it dies easy.

Enough to about Bus0. What about the STG44?

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