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delems

How come Brit get semis?

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delems

That is not historical at all.  If the FG-42 is going to be removed for historical reasons, the garaand has to be removed from Brit flags.

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tater
1 hour ago, delems said:

That is not historical at all.  If the FG-42 is going to be removed for historical reasons, the garaand has to be removed from Brit flags.

While the UK only had ~5.4X more M1 Garands than FG42s were ever made (38,001 were given to the UK under Lend-Lease), I don't disagree with you. The 38k Garands were for home defense, so maybe there could be some use for them in a few "Home Defense" BDEs that must live in the UK?

First, the No4 mk1 needs to have the ability to cycle the bolt within the sight picture, it's been hobbled in ww2ol since day 1. It's by far the best bolt action combat rifle ever made. I've put many hundreds of rounds through an SMLE, and a 98k, and it's no contest which is the better rifle for combat (and I like my Mauser), they're not even close. Anyway, if the Enfield behaved like a real one, it would be much closer to a slower semi than what it is now.

Second, the game seems to have a "if one side has it, the other side has to have it" (can't be true for stuff like the StG44, since no one else had anything like it). I might be inclined to make sure that in the counterfactual ww2ol timeline the MAS 40 becomes standard starting in 1941, with the MAS 44 replacing it in 1944. So the US the French will have semis, but not the UK (except at home). The UK units will suffer later war, but so it goes. If it's totally impossible maybe Stens could be bumped in number at some point.

Third, the FG42 was not removed, it was put into the Luftwaffe units it was designed for. I'm totally fine with a mechanism where the FJ BDEs can be stripped of their chutes and placed in towns like other BDEs.

 

Edited by tater

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jwilly

I agree with:

1. No British Garands except in Home Defense brigades locked to England.

2. Fix the Enfield so it fires and cycles without losing the sight picture.

3. MAS40 in T1, MAS44 in T3.

 

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blakeh

If they fix the lee-enfield then yes, remove the M1  - it really makes no sense.  For logistical purposes the British would never have deployed it.

The FG-42 should be in para units only- with the Ste-44 there is no reason for it not be be.

Interservice rivalry would have prevented the German army gaining access to it anyway.

MAS-40 should not be in the first tier- assuming tiers 1,2,3 -- it should appear  in tier 2.  

MAS-44 -- not worth the time and effort to develop.

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jwilly
3 hours ago, blakeh said:

MAS-40 should not be in the first tier- assuming tiers 1,2,3 -- it should appear  in tier 2.

In the current full-year-tiers system, Tier 0 is 1940, Tier 1 is 1941, Tier 2 is 1942. CRS says they want some flexibility on that for game management reasons i.e. balance, but that's the usual guideline.

In the half-year-tiers system that CRS has experimented with, T0a or whatever it would be called is roughly May through August of 1940, T0b is September through December. All subsequent years are January through June and July through December. 

The production contract for the MAS-40 specified first deliveries to the Army in July 1941. That'd correspond to the first field units re-equipping in the early Fall.

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stump

The speed of the Lee Enfield was upped once all the other sides got semi-autos.  AT LEAST put the speed back down to the other bolt-actions.  IMO brits with semi-autos is really lame. 

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jwilly
23 minutes ago, stump said:

The speed of the Lee Enfield was upped once all the other sides got semi-autos.  AT LEAST put the speed back down to the other bolt-actions. 

Why slow down the Enfield, given that skilled shooters could cycle the Enfield significantly faster in required-accuracy testing?

The Enfield speed increase did serve a useful capabilities-balance function when it was done, but it was primarily justified based on realism.

Edited by jwilly

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dre21
2 hours ago, jwilly said:

Why slow down the Enfield, given that skilled shooters could cycle the Enfield significantly faster in required-accuracy testing?

The Enfield speed increase did serve a useful capabilities-balance function when it was done, but it was primarily justified based on realism.

You said skilled shooter, I highly doubt that every Brit soldier was a skilled shooter. One could make the argument a skilled LMG34 operator was able to fire said weapon while walking or at a light jog too.

After all the German Army picked who would get to operate an LMG34 , wasn't the 4foot 4 guy in the squad but usually one of the more brawny types  so he could handle said weapon.

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stump
5 hours ago, jwilly said:

Why slow down the Enfield, given that skilled shooters could cycle the Enfield significantly faster in required-accuracy testing?

The Enfield speed increase did serve a useful capabilities-balance function when it was done, but it was primarily justified based on realism.

Because the brits now have semi-autos as well -.-

Why make it to where we can't fire the lmg while moving?

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drkmouse
5 hours ago, jwilly said:

Why slow down the Enfield, given that skilled shooters could cycle the Enfield significantly faster in required-accuracy testing?

The Enfield speed increase did serve a useful capabilities-balance function when it was done, but it was primarily justified based on realism.

same can be said for ALL equip

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Kilemall
22 minutes ago, stump said:

Because the brits now have semi-autos as well -.-

Why make it to where we can't fire the lmg while moving?

If we only had 'outside', it might not be a thing.

But it's the twirling LMG of room clearing doom as manhandled by terminators coupled with properly modeled ROF that's a virtual abuse of the damn things.

And that's the real issue isn't it, getting that depot clearing advantage back 'where it belongs', right?

I can definitely believe that they did walking fire.

I do not believe they were CQB ballerinas, and the historical warfighters would probably mock players doing that, not to mention not wanting 7/8 of their squad firepower being risked on room clearing.

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drkmouse
12 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

If we only had 'outside', it might not be a thing.

But it's the twirling LMG of room clearing doom as manhandled by terminators coupled with properly modeled ROF that's a virtual abuse of the damn things.

And that's the real issue isn't it, getting that depot clearing advantage back 'where it belongs', right?

I can definitely believe that they did walking fire.

I do not believe they were CQB ballerinas, and the historical warfighters would probably mock players doing that, not to mention not wanting 7/8 of their squad firepower being risked on room clearing.

like the alies sniper and l,mg that  bury into berms so only top of heads shows?
 

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Kilemall
4 minutes ago, drkmouse said:

like the alies sniper and l,mg that  bury into berms so only top of heads shows?
 

I haven't seen such but I don't see it from that angle.  I would expect that if Allied inf can do it, so can Axis.

Unless you are full bore saying the Rats are programming the Allies to have some sort of terrain advantage.

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drkmouse
48 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

I haven't seen such but I don't see it from that angle.  I would expect that if Allied inf can do it, so can Axis.

Unless you are full bore saying the Rats are programming the Allies to have some sort of terrain advantage.

do not put words in my mouth

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jwilly

As in other aspects of the game, CRS decided to break a second piece of the game, trying to compensate for an earlier design error without just fixing that design error.

It makes no realism-sense that control of a town and the road/rail net around and through it is determined by who holds a particular room in a particular building. If CRS had had the time and resources to design a more sensible capture mechanism instead of the original "bump the radio table", we wouldn't have wasted so much time discussing LMG spinfiring.

Absolutely it historically was the case that walking semi-aimed fire was an available technique for all the game's LMGs and auto rifles. Walking fire was dreamed up in WWI as a way for attack charges to at least do some shooting back. It disappeared from use in WWII about as soon as real bullets started flying, because it made it easy for hidden enemy infantrymen to discern the one or a few guys that if taken out would cripple the attack. But, it should be permissible anyway.

The questions with spinfiring have always been the physics issues of sprinting into a building with such a weapon held extended forward, not the basic ability to hold the gun at the waist while walking.

Edited by jwilly

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Kilemall
42 minutes ago, drkmouse said:

do not put words in my mouth

I said unless.  Putting words in your mouth would be saying you ARE saying that.  I know better then to do that.

 

Well, which is it?  What are you saying by bringing that up?

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Kilemall
2 minutes ago, jwilly said:

As in other aspects of the game, CRS had to break a second piece of the game, trying to compensate for the earlier design error without just fixing that design error.

It makes no realism-sense that control of a town and the road/rail net around and through it is determined by who holds a particular room in a particular building. If CRS had had the time and resources to design a more sensible capture mechanism instead of the original "bump the radio table", we wouldn't have wasted so much time discussing LMG spinfiring.

Absolutely it historically was the case that walking semi-aimed fire was an available technique for all the game's LMGs and auto rifles. Walking fire was dreamed up in WWI as a way for attack charges to at least do some shooting back. It disappeared from use in WWII about as soon as real bullets started flying, because it made it easy for hidden enemy infantrymen to discern the one or a few guys that if taken out would cripple the attack. But, it should be permissible anyway.

The questions with spinfiring have always been the physics issues of sprinting into a building with such a weapon held extended forward, not the basic ability to hold the gun at the waist while walking.

This.  Spawn Castle Nodes are the bane of the game, it's what makes Axis infantry CQB firepower and Allied infantry tank assault designs supreme.

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stankyus
1 hour ago, drkmouse said:

like the alies sniper and l,mg that  bury into berms so only top of heads shows?
 

All lmgs can bury their gun in berms. I have tested all the lmgs to see how this is done years ago. The mg34 by far benefits from the berm clip “tactic” because the eye level is on top of the gun, but t the third person view completely obscures 99% of the gunners head while being able to depress the gun to knee level. The Bren and fm third person exploses the head to eye level but the gun cannot be depressed to hit ei beyond 10m. Second floor ei, not guys running across the ground.

 The window deployment also allows for the mg34 to deploy from the side of the window so the gun barrel clips the wall on deployment protecting the gunner behind the wall. The gunners view however still has 2/3rds his view unobscured and able to shoot. I see some of the mg34 gunners attempt this maneuver pretty often.  The Bren and fm can be deployed that way also but the view is obscured by the wall.  
 

I really don’t have a issue with the berm so much because the lmg is not required to deploy on top or downslope side of the berm but on the backside of the slope. This is a factual and proper deployment of lmgs anyway.

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tater
10 hours ago, stump said:

The speed of the Lee Enfield was upped once all the other sides got semi-autos.  AT LEAST put the speed back down to the other bolt-actions.  IMO brits with semi-autos is really lame. 

Have you ever fired one? How about a Mauser? The SMLE is grossly faster, it's not even close.

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tater
4 hours ago, stump said:

Because the brits now have semi-autos as well -.-

Because real Enfields could cycle not only way faster than a Mauser, but you can do so and stay in the sight picture. We're literally saying that if the Enfield acted like a real one, you could take the semis away from the UK (except on the home islands, where they should get a bunch of M1s (maybe the UK Garrison forces?).

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tater

Yeah, all the MGs clip some. Honestly, MGs are not powerful enough as offensive base of fire, or in a defensive role since they are so easy to kill unless they are in one of those clipped positions.

I'd be fine with all the MGs working in some fashion from the hip (maybe shouldered, frankly)—as was so well said, the problem is the arbitrary game mechanic of clearing a CP—pretty much the very worst part of ww2ol is every single combat that is required by mechanics to take place in a room.

Maybe some door PPOs, then internal door jams (and walls) in the CP as well. Clearing such a building would require blowing the PPOs (a nade would do it). Then LMGs can get hip fire back because they lack nades, can't force the doors (if they bring a rifle pal, he blows the door, they can twirl around inside if they like.

Oh, and no cap possible either way if any enemy alive in the building.

Edited by tater

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stankyus
2 hours ago, tater said:

Have you ever fired one? How about a Mauser? The SMLE is grossly faster, it's not even close.

A buddy of mine has his grandfathers Mauser he hunts with. It’s a RL ww2 German k98 he brought home from the war with swastica stamp from 1944. He inherited it, took off the original stock and put a freaking plastic riffle stick on it. It’s well worn in especially the trigger which I found smooth with about 2mm of play and breaking at mb 4-5 lbs which kinda surprised me  as I was expecting 6-8 lbs but cycling rounds through it is not very smooth but clunky. You could feel the round hit the breach when pushing home. The action requires a lot of movement. It’s not horrible but I was not impressed. 

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tater
8 hours ago, stankyus said:

A buddy of mine has his grandfathers Mauser he hunts with. It’s a RL ww2 German k98 he brought home from the war with swastica stamp from 1944. He inherited it, took off the original stock and put a freaking plastic riffle stick on it. It’s well worn in especially the trigger which I found smooth with about 2mm of play and breaking at mb 4-5 lbs which kinda surprised me  as I was expecting 6-8 lbs but cycling rounds through it is not very smooth but clunky. You could feel the round hit the breach when pushing home. The action requires a lot of movement. It’s not horrible but I was not impressed. 

My Mauser is 1943 byf stamped (matching). I've fired a zillion rounds through it. Dunno, well past 1000, since I bought 1000 rounds once, plus loads more in smaller quantities. My palm ends up hurting when it gets hot (after many rounds through it) and I have to slam the bolt to extract (and you are right, seating it, too). Literally never the case with the SMLE, that action is like warm butter 100% of the time.

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flong139

never had any issues with the several mausers I own all cycle very well, i can fire them as fast as my Enfields, perhaps a little TLC and field maintenance.

S!

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blakeh
15 hours ago, drkmouse said:

like the alies sniper and l,mg that  bury into berms so only top of heads shows?
 

that is not just one side-  plenty of axis snipers do it too.   This is not a side problem, it is a game problem.

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