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delems

SD and cap times.

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delems

Can we for the love of the game, let these be reasonable?

Remove SD - is horrific with the Enter World bug, and that is being kind.

And, it is absolutely ludicrous to take 8 min to capture a CP.

Just let the over pop side take some towns for a change.

So what, each side can roll some towns when they have over pop - GOOD, makes for a more fun game.

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jwilly
26 minutes ago, delems said:

Just let the over pop side take some towns for a change.

So what, each side can roll some towns when they have over pop - GOOD, makes for a more fun game.

Not for the underpop side.

And if they don't have fun, and leave, the game folds.

I assume the OP side having more fun isn't worth that outcome to you?

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delems

*** I assume the OP side having more fun isn't worth that outcome to you?

As long as each side gets some OP, they can have fun.

Seriously, 8 min to cap during low pop TZ while over pop ??   Is that fun?

I know there is a fine line, but the map has to move too, towns have to change sides.

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ZEBBEEE

It Would probably have been better to have put these balance % on the bunker radio unlock timer, but maybe it was harder to design/ code 

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Kilemall

No.

If anything they have been loosened up too much.

My preference would be 3-4 UP/OP controls and so any one of them does not exceed pain thresholds.  Unfortunately they have not put in the conceptual much less the code for full PN.

But gifting the OP to that point?  No.

Earn it.

 

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jwrona

Lost veere, bliss, westkapelle, breskins under severe underpop today. the only active battle during westkapelle... me, makettle, new guy, two green tags not spawned in. 
 

Meanwhile DDs, paras, ground troops, and air attacking us. 

 

cap timers suck when you’re over pop, especially in extremes. But when you’re up against that... it is how it is. 

come play allied in TZ3 right now. It’s a flipping hoot. 

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dwalin

I've been on the giving and receiving end of this and I can say without a doubt, without a hesitation..... standardize the cap timers.  Spawn Delay sure, but standarize the cap timers.  They have been or seemed broken for years and years.  3:00 minute cap timers across the board (adjust for number of people in the CP). 

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Kidd27

im not in favour of cap times that change. The player isnt provided any information in game as to when this could or is happening, its akin to changing the rules of a game after the game started.

 

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goreblimey
1 hour ago, dwalin said:

I've been on the giving and receiving end of this and I can say without a doubt, without a hesitation..... standardize the cap timers.  Spawn Delay sure, but standarize the cap timers.  They have been or seemed broken for years and years.  3:00 minute cap timers across the board (adjust for number of people in the CP). 

You can’t standardise cap timers and then give a bonus for for cappers. That’s pandering to the overpop crowd , standa

Standardised timers would Be plenty advantageous to overpop side.

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dwalin
6 minutes ago, goreblimey said:

You can’t standardise cap timers and then give a bonus for for cappers. That’s pandering to the overpop crowd , standa

Standardised timers would Be plenty advantageous to overpop side.

I think it's kind of funny because I heard this exact same comment that I made from Allied players when I was over there and we (Allies) were overpop.  People were big time in favor of it.  Goes to show how winning and losing can change your perspective.  Not a knock on you specifically Gore, just making a comment about how this is such a difficult issue to contend with from a development standpoint.

With that said, though, I'm good either way.  Standarize and leave it alone at 3:00 then.  Whether there is 1 or 45 cappers in a CP.  My point is the OP side is punished too much with side lock, spawn delay, and cap timers.  And I've been consistent in saying that whether I've been OP or not.  Combine that with @Kidd27's comment about how there is no way to tell when the changes occur, there is no way for players to know what is happening minute to minute in terms of the rules of the game changing, and I think it's time to get rid of different cap timers.

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tater

If one side is highly OP, require multiple people for the cap to even begin for the OP side.

Require people guard or it resets. The number might be >1, so if 2 guards and 1 killed, it starts resetting.

Both the above numbers based on relative balance and total pop.

 

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dwalin
1 minute ago, tater said:

If one side is highly OP, require multiple people for the cap to even begin for the OP side.

Require people guard or it resets. The number might be >1, so if 2 guards and 1 killed, it starts resetting.

Both the above numbers based on relative balance and total pop.

 

But that, again, is changing the rules in the middle of the game without knowledge of the players.  Population can fluctuate so rapidly, especially during TZ transition times or low pop times.  

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tater
20 minutes ago, dwalin said:

But that, again, is changing the rules in the middle of the game without knowledge of the players.  Population can fluctuate so rapidly, especially during TZ transition times or low pop times.  

Boo, hoo.

It would be set based on total population on a side (based in the min number of people required to mount an effective defense in normal play (roughly 1 per CP/bunker, and a floater)), combined with OP/UP status.

Get into CP.cap bar doesn't move... call someone else in. Still doesn't move? Call someone else in.

Guarding number would require something telling you how many you need. Guarding might generically be capping requirement minus 1.

 

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Kilemall
5 hours ago, ZEBBEEE said:

It Would probably have been better to have put these balance % on the bunker radio unlock timer, but maybe it was harder to design/ code 

Oh NEAT.  Every battle devolves to simulcap of all spawn depots, then the UP gets to be shooting dummies running out of the barracks to either die to the stuffed bunker or crossing the street to get to recap a depot, only to have the AB go fast then every OP show up at their one recapped depot and cap it in 30s.

With that setup the OP take accelerates, because once all the depots go fast half of the OP team can be off setting up for the next AO.

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tater
21 minutes ago, Kilemall said:

Oh NEAT.  Every battle devolves to simulcap of all spawn depots, then the UP gets to be shooting dummies running out of the barracks to either die to the stuffed bunker or crossing the street to get to recap a depot, only to have the AB go fast then every OP show up at their one recapped depot and cap it in 30s.

With that setup the OP take accelerates, because once all the depots go fast half of the OP team can be off setting up for the next AO.

Yeah, seems to me the relative pop (though I still think the BDEs should matter in this regard, since sometimes OP makes "map" sense) should let people do the same things, but it takes more (or fewer) people based on pop balance.

UP side can take a CP with 1 person, and they don't even have to guard it. OP side might take 2 to cap at all, and unless 1 guards, it reverts (those numbers might increase with enough unbalance).

So a low pop, UP side can attack—looks like a mole attack right now, but since the OP side needs 2, 3, whatever inf to recap, the UP side might actually succeed.

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ZEBBEEE
2 hours ago, Kilemall said:

Oh NEAT.  Every battle devolves to simulcap of all spawn depots, then the UP gets to be shooting dummies running out of the barracks to either die to the stuffed bunker or crossing the street to get to recap a depot, only to have the AB go fast then every OP show up at their one recapped depot and cap it in 30s.

With that setup the OP take accelerates, because once all the depots go fast half of the OP team can be off setting up for the next AO.

That’s indeed the opposite approach: an UP team could be routed faster and thus we could have shorter AO battles.
 

With teamwork UP can break a siege if they get the time to do so imho

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Kilemall
3 hours ago, tater said:

Yeah, seems to me the relative pop (though I still think the BDEs should matter in this regard, since sometimes OP makes "map" sense) should let people do the same things, but it takes more (or fewer) people based on pop balance.

UP side can take a CP with 1 person, and they don't even have to guard it. OP side might take 2 to cap at all, and unless 1 guards, it reverts (those numbers might increase with enough unbalance).

So a low pop, UP side can attack—looks like a mole attack right now, but since the OP side needs 2, 3, whatever inf to recap, the UP side might actually succeed.

Minimal cap 2 or more for OP was part of my original PN proposed package. 

Principle is to have many levers so you don't have to crutch on the current 3 and therefore have to have high values in any one.

Underpop opportunity, overpop has to earn it, that's the mantra.

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stankyus

SD and cap timers work only when the OP side is not TZ3 OP.  NE Brussels started with 11 defenders right up to the air field bunker cap.  Then it dropped to me, 2 green tags and a Lt. When they AO'd SE Brussels, I defended one cp for about 7 minutes till overwhellmed, then a second but was too late, they where already in that CP so I went to the bunker, the 3 noobs where 2 DLC A13s and an AA gun. I ran into the bunker and found 5-6 EI in it with a truck load of Pzs on their way down.  Even with the cap timers and SD, there was no real way to clear the bunker. So I went to start a recap and found guards in the cps. Did not take long for them to get back and clear me out. After that the NE was AO'd and we started getting ppl back, Mundi and Goreblimey plus a few more. Axis started to log by then.. left soon as we had the the town proper  on the NE Axis side allied, all that was left then was the AF cps. No idea if we got them back. 

I dont like SD or Cap timers either, and they do what is intended when one side is OP. However the fail during OP so large its function just slows down the roll... which during the Brussels attacks allowed us to stop the bleeding. If it was any faster, we would have lost 3/4ths or the whole before we had ppl to mount a defense. SO its a vital portion of the game, it does not deny a victory it slows it down. Losing multiple towns in about 40 minutes each is not a good thing.

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delems

I understand the slow roll part somewhat; but what I see is players leaving game because of SD and capture timers.

I won't even spawn in when SD high - I just sit at map; maybe guard a FB or CP.

Some capture timer is fine; SD must go until they fix Enter World bug.

8 min capture timer is not ok for low pop when it's 16 to 10.

Cut the base capture timer in half (leave scaling), remove SD; let both sides roll when they op if need.

Game went 10 years with instant and 1 minute captures..... 8 is way to long.

Few towns fall outside the 'OP side has 20 and the UP side has 4' time area; that is an issue it seems.

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goreblimey

Get your facts right . There is no 8 minute timer , and certainly not at 16 vs 10.

The Only annoying thing really is when the pop balance is not in line with the cap timers. IE population Measuring is way behind shIfting population numbers, high cap timers when the population doesnt justify it.

TZ3 5:1 odds ... What difference does cap timer make lol... Slows The town capture down by about 3 minutes.

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Kilemall
20 minutes ago, delems said:

I understand the slow roll part somewhat; but what I see is players leaving game because of SD and capture timers.

I won't even spawn in when SD high - I just sit at map; maybe guard a FB or CP.

Some capture timer is fine; SD must go until they fix Enter World bug.

8 min capture timer is not ok for low pop when it's 16 to 10.

Cut the base capture timer in half (leave scaling), remove SD; let both sides roll when they op if need.

Game went 10 years with instant and 1 minute captures..... 8 is way to long.

Few towns fall outside the 'OP side has 20 and the UP side has 4' time area; that is an issue it seems.

Don't give a damn.

No.. 

Really.

It's a function of being a fair game.

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delems

*** Get your facts right . There is no 8 minute timer , and certainly not at 16 vs 10.

I have personally timed 7:36 captures, close enough to 8 min for me.  Way to slow.  Go time it yourself some time.

 

And you don't get it, I get the unfairness; but I think towns should fall outsize TZ3; towns only fall when it's 20 to 4 now for the most part.

What is better, 12 hours of no captures by either side?  Or 12 hours and each side captures 5 towns?
Both end up the same way on map basically, which one is more fun and will draw more players?

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stankyus
55 minutes ago, delems said:

I understand the slow roll part somewhat; but what I see is players leaving game because of SD and capture timers.

I won't even spawn in when SD high - I just sit at map; maybe guard a FB or CP.

Some capture timer is fine; SD must go until they fix Enter World bug.

8 min capture timer is not ok for low pop when it's 16 to 10.

Cut the base capture timer in half (leave scaling), remove SD; let both sides roll when they op if need.

Game went 10 years with instant and 1 minute captures..... 8 is way to long.

Few towns fall outside the 'OP side has 20 and the UP side has 4' time area; that is an issue it seems.

I get enter the world bug when we are under popped too, not as often as when we are OP but it happens. 16 vrs 10  thats not the extreme. The extreme is 4 vrs 16-25.  Thats the TZ3 issue. I dont recall having an issue capping when things are 16 vrs 10, matter of fact I find thats where the Cap timers and SD actually help, not hurt the under popped side possibly hold a town. Thats at least manageable, it was made for that.  The extreme end helps slow things down.  Im not a fan of it, cause I want to cap and move on when we are OP and capping cps. I completely understand why you feel this way.. however I also completely understand why the SD and Cap timer thing is where its at and I am fine with it.

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Kilemall
1 hour ago, delems said:

*** Get your facts right . There is no 8 minute timer , and certainly not at 16 vs 10.

I have personally timed 7:36 captures, close enough to 8 min for me.  Way to slow.  Go time it yourself some time.

 

And you don't get it, I get the unfairness; but I think towns should fall outsize TZ3; towns only fall when it's 20 to 4 now for the most part.

What is better, 12 hours of no captures by either side?  Or 12 hours and each side captures 5 towns?
Both end up the same way on map basically, which one is more fun and will draw more players?

What is better is easing capture for all during primetimes and not allowing easymode wins during TZ3.

Attack needs to be juiced up but not at the expense of whoever has TZ3 wins the game cause it's that much easier to take especially if defense is backed off.

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fidd

Town captures need to be a function of attrition of the TOE, not the sometimes severe variations in population during TZ3.  If towns are falling with almost intact TOE's, then the game has become deeply flawed. If a town captured in TZ1 "uses" say 1000 man-hours of play, using most of the attackers TOE, and killing most of the defenders TOE, then any measure which bring the rate and speed of TZ3 captures to more nearly reflect the same man-hours involved for both sides, has my vote. I'd go so far as saying that if numbers fall below a certain point, and especially if there's a daily cyclic inbalance in numbers, then "no AO's" (for both sides) should become a possibility. Or large SD's/cap timers, sufficient to effectively require a long single AO to attrite, rather than the easymode captures which sometimes occur in TZ3 - versus an essentially absent defending playerbase.

 

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