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Trawler

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Netfytr

LMAO. Discuss...

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Scotsman

Stern rack...read between the lines for coming attractions.

Inshore support cheaper than a destroyer implies other things are coming

Substantial AA for the tonnage with a quad mount.

Attention  to the most neglected part of the game laying the foundation for real amphibious opns

Everyone had them...and lots of them. Destroyers were a limited asset especially in the KM.

 

Edited by Scotsman
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tater

Should we assume hitting high explosive cans on a ship with almost anything is bad for the ship?

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dre21

I see quad AAA guns on these things , looks like in the near future it might come to a tracked version .

I think it's a nice addition to the Navy , we need more stuff in the Navy , now make the troop ships be able to become a Spawn and the North will actually come into play. 

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tater
9 minutes ago, dre21 said:

I see quad AAA guns on these things , looks like in the near future it might come to a tracked version .

I think it's a nice addition to the Navy , we need more stuff in the Navy , now make the troop ships be able to become a Spawn and the North will actually come into play. 

While I agree that the AK should be a spawn (or have the ability to launch a craft that becomes a spawn on the beach, and not inland at all (eliminating truck-placed spawns inland in invasions entirely), the spawn list should be loaded onto the AK and at risk. Ie, if the ship is sunk, the spawn list goes with it.

Say an AK gets, pick a number, 4 MSPs on the beach, and the spawn list for the AK is a company. You'd have 3 rifle platoons, and a weapons platoon. 1 MSP for each. Anchor AK offshore (no more beaching ships, water should be too shallow). AK spawns 4 landing boats. Boats beach, and deploy as MSPs. Each has a spawn with ~45 men in it. We don't have real units, so we mix the weapon platoons and HQ elements into the spawns so we get the squad/platoon balance of rifle/SMG/LMG you'd expect, plus all the special units (both engies types, mortars, etc).

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jwilly
1 hour ago, Scotsman said:

Everyone had them

Even the French?

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jwrona
2 hours ago, dre21 said:

I think it's a nice addition to the Navy , we need more stuff in the Navy , now make the troop ships be able to become a Spawn and the North will actually come into play. 

This was my takeaway precisely. It's showing what's to come. 

Picture a 3rd type of dock (so you can pull these out of ports like Veere, Walswoorden, etc that are seaside, but not river). It'll make gameplay on the water less isolated. Currently DD ports are so flippin far away from both targets AND other DD ports you rarely get the boat-on-boat kinda play you're looking for.

The idea of a "landing craft FMS" is brilliant as well, I'd bet also likely to come either with current freighter or something else. The struggle to those upper north parts of map is, although some of them provide extra links on the mainland targets, is that their worth in strategy is not worth the time/manpower it takes to set up. 

An AO you can run with 1 truck, 1 FMS. 10mins of driving if you REALLY leave it in 1st gear and go the long way over the river and thru the woods. Wanna do a proper attack on an island? Find a guy with 30-40mins to get a freighter, struggle picking you up and dropping you on, floating across, picking you up and dropping you off, you driving along the beach to get enough speed to climb the little dunes-like nonsense, get toward town, finally clear an AO to place that AO... yikes. 

But there is CERTAINLY more coming on this front. I cannot wait. This first piece already looks good. Big S ! to CRS.

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Scotsman
3 hours ago, dre21 said:

I see quad AAA guns on these things , looks like in the near future it might come to a tracked version .

I think it's a nice addition to the Navy , we need more stuff in the Navy , now make the troop ships be able to become a Spawn and the North will actually come into play. 

*soon*

2 hours ago, jwilly said:

Even the French?

Yes - 200,000 tons or more

Edited by Scotsman

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blakeh

But does it catch fish?

 

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dre21
3 hours ago, tater said:

While I agree that the AK should be a spawn (or have the ability to launch a craft that becomes a spawn on the beach, and not inland at all (eliminating truck-placed spawns inland in invasions entirely), the spawn list should be loaded onto the AK and at risk. Ie, if the ship is sunk, the spawn list goes with it.

Say an AK gets, pick a number, 4 MSPs on the beach, and the spawn list for the AK is a company. You'd have 3 rifle platoons, and a weapons platoon. 1 MSP for each. Anchor AK offshore (no more beaching ships, water should be too shallow). AK spawns 4 landing boats. Boats beach, and deploy as MSPs. Each has a spawn with ~45 men in it. We don't have real units, so we mix the weapon platoons and HQ elements into the spawns so we get the squad/platoon balance of rifle/SMG/LMG you'd expect, plus all the special units (both engies types, mortars, etc).

Like I said before , low hanging fruit 1st , aka make freighters be able to convert as a FMS once landed . 

Then expand outward , like have HC maybe pick the troops on it or to make it rather simple , each freighter has a pretty determined list once launched if sunk on route yes that is gone from the span list. So in other words you spawn a freighter the spawn list takes a hit ( of course it sucks if said player gets a CTD ) so one has to be carful about that option cause the player base will [censored]. 

So in my eyes it should be something like this , you spawn in you have a predetermined list on the ship. You make it to target and set FMS the spawn list goes active ,now player base can draw from set list . The freighter gets sunk or destroyed one looses a percentage of that spawn list.

That way one side doesn't take to big of a hit but it still hurts and the other side gets a reward for destroying the freighter. Kinda like a risk reward kind of deal . With the Trawler and it's quad AAA it make it harder to sink the Freighter but it be up to the player base to obviously protect the Freighter, be it via fighters in the air , AAA on the ground , Trawler or a combination of all of it.

 

11 minutes ago, blakeh said:

But does it catch fish?

 

That be a mini game for the troops

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tater
39 minutes ago, dre21 said:

So in my eyes it should be something like this , you spawn in you have a predetermined list on the ship. You make it to target and set FMS the spawn list goes active ,now player base can draw from set list . The freighter gets sunk or destroyed one looses a percentage of that spawn list.

Yeah, the MSPs should "contain" whatever their list is, so once on the beach, those guys are "on the beach" even if the AK is sunk.

I just don't want a teleporter over water.

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Scotsman

I think think things are heading in the proper direction. Someone mentioned staging areas for US forces in the southern UK...it might be possible to have those areas 'feed' an amphibious flotilla....with a sinking resulting in deduction from the parent pool tasked with the amphibious order/embarkation. Note that such a pool could be considerably bigger than available shipping...or not. I don't like instaspawn either....only what can be carried should be available to spawn which might require either return voyages or a larger mothership (attack transport). The first thing is to get the vessels done, and then use them to start playing with some of the mechanics being toyed with. We don't want to have to rewrite the strat layers any more than necessary,

Keep in mind there are a million things to do here. It is entirely possible that such a flotilla might be a formation of ships with a single commander and that the small escorts like the trawlers could be player manned or simply sailing in formation with AI turned on for their weapons. 

There are many potential directions...but rest assured that amphibious operations in all their forms (and with the appropriate equipment) is high on our list. 

I have talked to bmbm about an experiment where we add float boxes to some existing equipment to see if we can make things swim ashore and then drive (aka DUKW, AMtracs, etc). there is more to do than two guys can possibly do...but we will do our best. I like that idea if we can make it work...as you might get amphibs with a very small spawn that swim ashore fast in addition to more traditional landing craft moving larger numbers of troops or vehicles. There are also all the variants of base amphibious craft as well...from gun support, to rockets, from ocean going to offshore launch only. 

Models are not the problem....getting things rigged in the game and insuring proper functionality is the bigger task. To that you will see national differences. The trawler was an exception because it was common to all nations. 

I haven't forgotten the weather discussions either...zoned weather would be great....there are some kits out there that do volumetric clouds...the trouble  being they will not render the same for two pilots in the same air space. I believe that's true even in flight simulator 2020....everyone sees the front or hurricane but the clouds are not the same...which is problematical for dogfights etc. 

Zoned universal weather is probably do-able where we read current weather and replicate a uniform condition in the zone. I could see that being 3 zones to start with, the UK, the channel, and France. Do I want to do localized thunderstorms etc? Yes...but the issue again is environmental portrayal has to work with a common player view. This is why you got the cloud decks you got at first. It's not that volumetric clouds can't be done...its that they must render the same for everyone in the same space. 

Edited by Scotsman

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derfflingr

Just a question about the tonnage on the release statement, 7500 ton's.... seriously, that is light cruiser level tonnage. should be more like 75 tons, or maybe 750 at max, and that is likely much to large. Did some looking and found that the trawler's that these are based on ran from 20 to 60 or 70 odd tons.

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stankyus

mmmm quad pompoms.. sounds lovely.

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blggles

Dallas Cowboy cheerleader territory.

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Kilemall
1 hour ago, derfflingr said:

Just a question about the tonnage on the release statement, 7500 ton's.... seriously, that is light cruiser level tonnage. should be more like 75 tons, or maybe 750 at max, and that is likely much to large. Did some looking and found that the trawler's that these are based on ran from 20 to 60 or 70 odd tons.

Ya, I did kinda gag at that.  Probably right, they meant 750 tons.

 

Here's an example, a 750 ton minesweeper.  About the same size and similar armament.

110213601.jpg

 

Edited by Kilemall

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wstriker

Next on Redneck Fishing Expeditions.....

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Scotsman
20 hours ago, derfflingr said:

Just a question about the tonnage on the release statement, 7500 ton's.... seriously, that is light cruiser level tonnage. should be more like 75 tons, or maybe 750 at max, and that is likely much to large. Did some looking and found that the trawler's that these are based on ran from 20 to 60 or 70 odd tons.

750 tons...not sure how the extra zero got in there.. The military class were a tad over 800 tons for example... 

Edited by Scotsman

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derfflingr

Thanks for the reply Scotsman. 750 tons, that is rather more reasonable.

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delems

Ok, couple issues so far:  Otherwise, love the Flakverling.
1) Unable to ride with j,

2) When multi-crew, first player gets no AA ??   This is huge issue, need both players able to run some AA guns.

3) Needs to be at all ports, to slow to travel from just deep ports.  Guessing trawlers small enough to dock at most any port?

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stankyus
1 hour ago, delems said:

Ok, couple issues so far:
1) Unable to ride with j,

2) When multi-crew, first player gets no AA ??   This is huge issue, need both players able to run some AA guns.

3) Needs to be at all ports, to slow to travel from just deep ports.  Guessing trawlers small enough to dock at most any port?

Have not tried it but agree with #2 in spades. 

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delems

I got on the trawler :)

First person to walk on the deck.

Then we did a beach assault on N shoreline Breskens, bummer though, didn't get to snipe anyone before jumping off.

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tater

The Trawler lists to starboard.

Agree with #2.

Given the entirely arbitrary position where the #2 position stands, the inability to look around the mast is annoying.

 

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delems

Confirm, does seem to list starboard.  Or the view is off.

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