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delems

SPIES.

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delems

Ok, no doubt there are spies now on allied side, so sad :(
 

No AO. for over a week at a town...  we think about AOing there, say in chat......

And, boom allies at that town with EWS seconds later.   Really pathetic.

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Obelix1

What Delems said!

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stankyus

What? 
 

you know last night after chilly, I figured you guys would attack Mech or Rocroi. So I noticed that the recroi bridge was being repaired . So I told everyone to prepare recroi. I told them that there was an airfield near so get AA out and to expect possible paras.  Had mb 6 ppl preparing in town.  Then bam, AO not 5 mins later.   Did not save the town, but some attacks have zero to do with spying but predictable AOs and good indicators like an Fb flipping or in the case of recroi the bridge being quickly repaired.  

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fidd

Back in the day BKB would drop individual paras along each road leading from a behind the lines enemy town to a front-line enemy town. Pretty soon along one of them, a very long Panzer column would come along, whereupon we'd all despawn and get ready with the rest of the squad to face the attack before so much as an Opel had spawned from the FB! The other wheeze was flying along the same roads, but a little way off to one side. The Panzer columns were clearly visible.

"Spying" of the nasty "swapped sides" variety is utterly indefensible, and you have my sympathy if it's happening, but it may happen less than you think, or not at all, but just seems like it. In 20 years play I've never once seen anyone pass such information in a way that raised my suspicion. let alone proved it, and I'd certainly report it if I did, and make such a stink about the player concerned he'd not know what hit him. But I've never had to, which suggests to me that it's more a case of other indicators - flak at an FB, trucks being seen, a bridge being repaired or fb flipped - or just an intuitive guess based on what else has happened in the towns around.

Edited by fidd

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B2K
10 hours ago, delems said:

Ok, no doubt there are spies now on allied side, so sad :(
 

No AO. for over a week at a town...  we think about AOing there, say in chat......

And, boom allies at that town with EWS seconds later.   Really pathetic.

 

May you burn in hell.

Because the other side can't read a map?  Or notice bridge/FB state changes? Or have been around game for so long that the next AO is more than an educated guess?  

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sideout
1 hour ago, fidd said:

"Spying" of the nasty "swapped sides" variety is utterly indefensible, and you have my sympathy if it's happening, but it may happen less than you think, or not at all, but just seems like it. In 20 years play I've never once seen anyone pass such information in a way that raised my suspicion. let alone proved it, and I'd certainly report it if I did, and make such a stink about the player concerned he'd not know what hit him. But I've never had to, which suggests to me that it's more a case of other indicators - flak at an FB, trucks being seen, a bridge being repaired or fb flipped - or just an intuitive guess based on what else has happened in the towns around.

I’ve thought the exact same thing myself, for years. Well said

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delems

It wasn't Rocrio, that was good recon.

Prior to that, and we didn't AO the town because of dubious activity.

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rabbit

Sigh....

The spy accusations get old from both sides.  While I won't say it doesn't happen its not as prevelant as a lot of people want to make it out to be.  There are several reasons why players are appearing in towns you think you can get a jump on:  people who are good at reading a map and guessing what is going to happen next, people who enjoy just sitting at FBs or watching their status, there are some players who park an alt in towns that may be targeted in the near future, someone flying by and happen to see movement at an FB, and many more.

If you really think their is a legit spy then report it and let the GM look into it, otherwise play the game and chalk it up to the other side either got lucky or saw it coming.

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dre21

Ohh it does happen , myself was a victim so to speak of it when I had map.

But I just reported to CRS and they are /were looking into it.

I'm not going to say how we found out nor how we confirmed it.

CRS has all the INFO.

 

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fidd

I'm genuinely very sorry to hear that, it's not on at all. There's absolutely no excuse for it. Please understand, this is not an "allied" or "axis" thing, this is a poor player, I'd never knowingly profit from such behaviour in game and condemn it in the strongest possible terms,. Very sorry to hear that if you suspicions are correct on this occasion. I still think - well hope - it remains as rare as rocking-horse crap.

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saffroli
3 hours ago, rabbit said:

Sigh....

The spy accusations get old from both sides.  While I won't say it doesn't happen its not as prevelant as a lot of people want to make it out to be.

The most salient of points good sir.

There's not much more a "spy" can know about an AO interms of response time difference. Because if you have an AO set, that's already a trigger warning, as is EWS, AWS or nearby reports of audio from another town or whatever.

The only game breaker a "spy" can have is putting an alt in your mission so he can log all of your map positions for the guys in that mission. I'd imagine that's very handy in knowing what CP's are unguarded and since you would be able to cap them without contestation nobody will ever know it was you.

When you go to an AO you should always be ready.. I do get tired of people moaning about spys just cos they got caught with their pants down thinking it was gonna be a skeet shoot.

Edited by saffroli

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tater
15 hours ago, delems said:

Ok, no doubt there are spies now on allied side, so sad :(
 

No AO. for over a week at a town...  we think about AOing there, say in chat......

And, boom allies at that town with EWS seconds later.   Really pathetic.

One, spying is lame. That said...

What is the precise complaint from a gameplay perspective? (this isn't an attack on YOU, it's an attack on the very nature of ww2ol gameplay).

Your complaint is that in a town that is garrisoned with troops (at the bare minimum, it might also have BDEs on it), you complaint is that—GASP—the town might in fact be... defended.

OMG, having to, you know, actually attack, instead of ninja moving into town, then killing the supposed defenders as they spawn or look for where you are (already in town).

This spying complaint is legit within the current gameplay, but the current gameplay is wrong headed. In fact, the would be defenders should know exactly where you will attack beforehand, every single time as long as the target town is not empty (which none are now). Why should players have to sit in a town that MIGHT get AOed, when we have grossly fewer players than supply in any given town?

Edited by tater

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fidd

That's a fair point, although people using 2nd accounts of whatever to do this are pretty low. Like I said the other week, perversely the system would work better if the defenders told the attackers where to attack - at least that way there'd be a standing organised defence where the attack goes in, rather than defending players scrambling into the town trying to extemporise a defence where EI are already well infiltrated. The current system is just nuts. It might have been okay when we had thousands of players, the map was half the size and when all towns had some defence out, and you'd shoot the breeze with your squad-mates as you waited. 

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tater

Yeah, again, spying is lame (I certainly don't do it, you might as well report me if you see me spawned in Axis (I think I accidentally did once, maybe? Or I might have helped a Rat and spawned in once to test something). That said I have never seen anything in chat that looked like anyone outside the usual people saying that they think the next likely AO is X town, so if it happens I don't recall seeing it. I watch EWS, etc, and pop into random towns, though.

Still, ww2ol gameplay is all wrong. If a town has troops in it (a garrison or BDE), it should be defended. Not most of the time, all of the time. A failure to represent this is a failure of game design. If attacking towns that are actually defended is somehow impossible, then change gameplay rules so it is not impossible—but every town should still have a defense if it has troops.

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undercova

it is not difficult to predict delems his AOs ... LOL !!

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Tatonka

brussels ne , was a green tag not doing anything.  I asked him what he was doing and he started moving a little . I watched him, and he went in a large circle and not go near a cp . He would stop for 5-10 min or more . and then move a little . He would not respond to msg , I asked him if he needed help several times - no response. 

 

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Obelix1
8 minutes ago, Tatonka said:

brussels ne , was a green tag not doing anything.  I asked him what he was doing and he started moving a little . I watched him, and he went in a large circle and not go near a cp . He would stop for 5-10 min or more . and then move a little . He would not respond to msg , I asked him if he needed help several times - no response. 

 

I saw him as well. did'nt interact with him.

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fidd

He may not have spoken English, might have minimised his text buffer or simply not realised you were talking to him. I think "spying" is literally the last assumption we should jump to. We forget how many abbrieviations we use in this game -  if your first language is English they make sense, but they have to be learned  if you're say Finnish. frankly I'm surprised we don't see more green-tags wandering in circles.

 

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Tatonka

checked his stat , he has only spawned in 3x , killed every time. At Brussels N.E. he was there 4.5 hours and finally had a capture and was killed .

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sorella
10 hours ago, saffroli said:

 I'd imagine that's very handy in knowing what CP's are unguarded and since you would be able to cap them without contestation nobody will ever know it was you.
 

So if you leave CPs unguarded there are no spies because no one knows you are the spy. And if you guard CPs you get  dead spies who no one knows were spies because they're dead?  Hence no spies, right?

2 hours ago, fidd said:

  if your first language is English they make sense, but they have to be learned  if you're say Finnish. 

 

Except for Finnish spies maybe.

The amazing story of Finland in World War II, 1939-1945 - Rare Historical  Photos

 

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N8
On 10/16/2020 at 11:44 PM, delems said:

Ok, no doubt there are spies now on allied side, so sad :(
 

No AO. for over a week at a town...  we think about AOing there, say in chat......

And, boom allies at that town with EWS seconds later.   Really pathetic.

It isn't spying, really.

Just looking at map, and guessing where you guys attack next, not that hard to understand.

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dre21
11 hours ago, N8 said:

It isn't spying, really.

Just looking at map, and guessing where you guys attack next, not that hard to understand.

Trust me it does happen.

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tater
14 minutes ago, dre21 said:

Trust me it does happen.

While I assume it happens on both sides (I also have had green tag accounts follow me around throwing smoke at me, then unsurprisingly I get killed), in the case of "attacks," I still marvel that the gameplay is so broken that this really matters. It DOES matter in current play, since the best attacks are effectively softcaps. By the time then enemy garrisoned in town (LOL) reacts to the attack it's already over. Same as blowing FBs.

"Surprise!"

Awful gameplay. Attacks should face the best possible defense already waiting for them, every single time—then if the attack tools need to be bumped for attacks to work, so be it.

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fidd

I wonder if it would help if greentags were put in a metaphorical "hopper" and automatically sent to a particular mission as directed by an HC'er, On spawning they'd be told (in their native language" you have just spawned at xyz depot (CP), follow any orders at the top of your screen". With context specific splash-screen info each time they respawn: "Defend the CP by being inside the small nearby building with a flag or recapture it if lost" After a time of playing like that, they could choose not to be poured into the "hopper", and could start to choose missions for themseleves, by which time they'd be more au-fait with all the abbreviations and how to choose a mission

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dre21
3 hours ago, tater said:

While I assume it happens on both sides (I also have had green tag accounts follow me around throwing smoke at me, then unsurprisingly I get killed), in the case of "attacks," I still marvel that the gameplay is so broken that this really matters. It DOES matter in current play, since the best attacks are effectively softcaps. By the time then enemy garrisoned in town (LOL) reacts to the attack it's already over. Same as blowing FBs.

"Surprise!"

Awful gameplay. Attacks should face the best possible defense already waiting for them, every single time—then if the attack tools need to be bumped for attacks to work, so be it.

Well in my case it was a fellow player that informed me of what was going on . 

So it was not even myself that had the thought, but he got suspicious that my every move got instantly countered.  Like I said I'll leave it by that , but we had more then just a feeling , ours was confirmed. 

 

Not that I disagree with what you wrote , and I'm sure it happens on both sides .

Edited by dre21

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