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WILDHUND

Logitech G15 Keyboard

50 posts in this topic

Installed G15 keyboard and G5 mouse to go with Saitek Cyborg Evo joystick, all USB.

Everything works fine until I launch WWIIOL. Joystick does not work. After trial and error issue is with the G15 keyboard.

Uninstall it and use standard keyboard and joystick works fine. Anyone else have this issue or know of a resolution.

Logitech stated issue was with WWIIOL. I doubt that.

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Maybe its reporting your new keybord is a joystick, so you might have to remap all your setting to joystick #2. When I added pedels it change my joystick to #2 and pedels to #1 and I had to remap my settings.

Open your keymapper in game and select the joystick x axis and move your joystick and see if it maps it as stick#2.

Hope you figure it out.

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it is because of the keyboard..

it's because it is usb.

this is a long standing bug with ww2ol, it has to deal with a bug with windows usb "hotswaping". so it's partially ww2ol's fault for not properly working around this windows bug.... it's both a ww2ol and a windows bug...

it happens to about 1-5% of usb keyboard users. well, it's usually a usb keyboard but it can be other devices.

what happens is that a HID driver gets installed [either a ghost hid through the windows glitch or just a normal one for the keyboard or other usb device which blocks joystick detection with ww2ol].

with the g15, it's a ghost hid driver [one that's not really supposed to get installed] and not one of the standard ones for the g15 [or ALL g15 users would get this bug].

CRS has been trying to track it down but they haven't been able to replicate it in house and since they can't replicate it, they can't fix it...

now a hid [human interface device] driver is a little memory resident program that allows for user defined actions or keyboard keys to be mapped to a button on a mouse/keyboard/or controller...

on a keybaord a hid driver is used for those "media buttons" like "mail" "internet" "calculator" and "play", "volume up" ect...

on a mouse it's "universal scroll" or "close application" or even a keystroke...

on a joystick it's obviously what allows a joystick profile to work, "macros" or having a controller button produce a keystroke [such as joystick button two = the "d" key]...

so the workarounds that have come up for this are bascially only a few...

first, you can simply swap out the offending device such as you did with a ps/2 keyboard...

second, another person just discovered that they could plug in a regular mouse to fire up ww2ol and then unplug that mouse and plug in their g7 mouse and it would work just fine. so you might try that with one of your usb devices like your mouse...

third is a simple trial and error method of finding and disabiling the offending hid driver in device manager...

what you do is go into the system app in control panel and then under the hardware tab, click on the "device manager" button. this will bring up the device manager. now look for the "human interface devices" section and expand the tree...

you will see a bunch of different HID driver running. the offending hid driver is going to be one of these...

it will either be generically named [meaning it doesn't have a brand name, model name, or linked to a specific type of device [such as mouse, joystick, ect]] or one specifically for your keyboard [either keyboard, or logitech g15 hid device, ect]. it will not be one named for a mouse or joystick or other type of controller.

so what you do is disable the first hid that fits the above criteria and then fire up ww2ol and check and see if you have full usage of your keyboard and also ww2ol will now detect your joystick in the ww2ol keymapper..

if it does and you don't lose any needed functionaility of your keyboard [or one's that you don't mind not having] then just leave that hid disabled and you are good to go... you can just leave it disabled if you don't lose any functionality of the keyboard that you care about or just disable that hid when you want to play ww2ol. in about 95% of people finding this offending hid, they lose absolutly no functionality of their keybaords at all and can just leave it disabled.

remember, this will do no damage at all to leave it disabled. if there IS a problem, all you need to do is simply re-enable it and it'll work just fine again.

now if that wasn't the offending HID, then exit ww2ol and go back into device manager and re-enable that hid. then disable then next hid device and then fire up ww2ol and see if your joystick is now detected in ww2ol.

rinse and repeat untill you find the offending hid and disable it. remember it's not going to be one tied to a joystick or mouse. it can be a generically named one or one named specifically for your keyboard.

oh and lastly, you can try using one of those mouse usb to ps/2 adapters with the keyboard but I'm not quite sure if that'll work really.

I'll keep an eye on this thread or pm me if you have any more questions...

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I have the G15 keyboard, Logitech MX300 mouse, Saitek X52 joystick... installed on a new computer (only keyboard I installed) and it works fine. I have the Logitech G-series Keyboard Profiler running, but haven't created any profiles. I have 2 HID keyboard driver files in Device manager (dont know why) from Microsoft 5.1.2535.0. Not sure why mine works and yours doesn't. If you need more info from my system, let me know.

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this is a long standing bug with usb keyboards, windows and ww2ol and the above workarounds are the only thing that works...

not all g15 or usb keyboard users experience this bug, only about 5% at most but this is most definatly this bug that I've been tracking and helping people with for over 5 years..

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G15 ,G5 and a Saitek X-52.............Is the only way to play WOOOOOOT :D;)

Oh never had a problem with any of it and if you running team speak make sure you get Schmads TS Applet great little tool.

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I had the same problem and solved it simply by unplugging my Plantronics DSP 500 USB Headset (thanks to Sgtspoon). Neve a problem after that. Went back to onboard sound with no drop in performance.

Btw...some of these new onboard sound "cards" are as good as or better than the PCI cards. The new Intel onboard sound puts my Creative Z(?) Platimum to shame.

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I just started playing again since getting my G15 and G5 a few weeks back and was having the same issue. I have the G15, G5, X52, and CH Pro Pedals, all USB. At first, just the keyboard, mouse and pedals were working with no response from the stick. Then I unplugged the pedals and restarted the game and the stick worked fine...maybe it has to do with the number of USB devices connected, as someone else a few posts up said once he unplugged his USB headphones, it worked fine? Just an idea...I'll try the HID work around when I get home tonight - thanks!

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when you plug in USB devices, a hid driver is installed through windows hotswapping...

it's all about the HID...

all the other little workarounds are simply based on not getting the hid driver installed basically.

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when you plug in USB devices, a hid driver is installed through windows hotswapping...

it's all about the HID...

all the other little workarounds are simply based on not getting the hid driver installed basically.

Well, I had 3 different HID's installed. Went through one by one disabling them and loading the game, like you suggested. First one killed my mouse, second one took away the back button functionality on my mouse, and the last one took away the extra controls on my keyboard (volume, etc). So, I settled for the second one - never use those buttons in game anyways! Thanks for the workaround :)

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G11 / MX6000 Lazer Mouse

works fine even the macros

that's because this bug doesn't effect everyone, not even two people who have the exact same equipment. it effects about 5% of usb/wireless keyboard users regardless of make and model of equipment.

which is why it hasn't been able to be fixed yet as CRS haven't been able to replicate in house at all over these last 5 years that I've been pushing to get this fixed. they've even gone and bought specific test equipment [such as the g15] to try and fix this bug but it's occurance seems to be dependant on some hidden factor, not just make and model or amount of gear alone...

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that's because this bug doesn't effect everyone, not even two people who have the exact same equipment. it effects about 5% of usb/wireless keyboard users regardless of make and model of equipment.

which is why it hasn't been able to be fixed yet as CRS haven't been able to replicate in house at all over these last 5 years that I've been pushing to get this fixed. they've even gone and bought specific test equipment [such as the g15] to try and fix this bug but it's occurance seems to be dependant on some hidden factor, not just make and model or amount of gear alone...

think its a certain model of the USB controller? but isnt that done by the south bridge anyways?

hell i honestly dont know.

for all you know it could be the farking 5th pci slot lol

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think its a certain model of the USB controller? but isnt that done by the south bridge anyways?

hell i honestly dont know.

for all you know it could be the farking 5th pci slot lol

well, I do know alot about it since I'm the one who originally defined this bug and came up with the workaround many years back.

I've spent many countless hours comparing the people's systems whom it effects and passing it on to CRS, I stopped a while ago as I don't have as much free time as I did, due to real life and have just concentrated on getting players rigs running who encounter this problem..

I do know more what it's NOT than what it is, to be honest... it's all up to CRS at this point, when they can finally replicate it on one of thier machines, then it'll be able to be fixed... I just don't have time to continually be collecting information on it like I did the last 5 years...

also the ww2ol input code is so ancient, it's not funny. it did get somewhat an upgrade a little while ago but it's still fairly basic... and in there lays the problem somewhere....

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I have the same set up except for the pedals, ive never had a problem with any of them and im wondering if its because I have never installed the drivers for them. I always just plug and play so could the issue be that people are installing the drivers and they are conflicting.

Sorry to steal the thread, just a thought and im sure Sgtspoon will correct me if im wrong ;)

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no, it's not specifically the general drivers for a device. it's specifically the HID driver. it can be generic windows hid driver or the manufactures hid drivers. it doesn't make a difference.

it's more of a windows glitch with usb hotswapping than anything else. the ww2ol code is fairly basic and straightforward and has been checked repeatedly by rickb. it's just something that isn't compensated for with how windows deals with hid drivers but it's not an actual "error" or "bug" with the code. it's windows that's not working totally right, not ww2ol. some quirk in windows [and maybe direct x] is what the cause is..

i've gone over "what it could be" for many, many years with directly working with people encountering the problem and with CRS to help get the problem fixed...

I've done all that I can, I don't have time to deal with it anymore as I've spent years on it already. CRS has to replicate it on thier machines for it to get fixed, it's the only way it'll get taken care of at this point.

hopefully with the new game engine, there'll be a whole rewrite that'll clear this bug up prehaps...

cheers,

SgtSpoon

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no, didn't think that at all my friend...

didn't mean in my reply to sound like that, if I did.

I'm on some serious long term narcotic pain killers these last three years or so for my chronic pain problems from the nerve damage to my sensory nerves in my legs. so sometimes I'm posting while in different levels of pain if it's near the time for my next dose or it makes me overly wordy and rambling when it kicking in. so the tone of my posts may reflect what's going on at that moment, I try to review my posts to make sure I'm not being overly crabby or if I ended up writing a book instead of just a post, lol.. but I don't always do that or even realise that a post may need some editing because of how it sounds... text can be a hard medium to communicate with if you aren't fairly familiar to the people you are replying to as there's a lack of subtext...

I was just letting everyone know that i've really, really, really, really spent a long time on troubleshooting this specific bug over the years as it's a major pet peeve of mine even though I've never personally ever had it happen to ME at all, lol. I spent countless hours with people who've encountered this bug [if they were up to it] to examine all it's permutations and make sure CRS are aware of it. it's one of the things I've really been pushing CRS to take care of since it's been around almost since launch day [if not even before that]... I'm definatly burnt out over it and had considered all those possibilities before...

as I said, I know more what it isn't, than what it exactly is....

if anything about my reply was a bit crabby, it definatly wasn't aimed at anyone at all. it was either specifically at this bug and/or prehaps just because I was having pains during my reply's....

so sorry about that if I seemed a bit short in tone with my reply's, didn't mean it at all that way...

this bug, well, bugs the hell out of me....

it took me a long time to get CRS to finally look at it since it always been a pretty rare bug but I warned them that it's only going to get worse since keyboards and other input devices are getting more and more advanced with these extra features...

here's what I specifically know about it....

it happens with usb devices only. it's usually a usb or a wireless keyboard and it has nothing to do with any other drivers except the hid drivers which could be generic windows one's or ones specific to the device from the manuafacturer..

in one case, I found that the device that was causing it were "media" buttons built into a computer case that were connected on an internal usb hub along with a card reader.

also, it can happen sometimes to usb headsets. it seems it usually were with plantronics usb headsets but I'm unsure if that's just cause they were popular brand and the make and model didn't matter really at all or if it's specific to only plantronics headsets...

one keyboard system that definatly causes it is the logitech dinovo set-up. in this case it was several different hids that needed to be disabled, also if just the bluetooth stack was removed, the joystick would be detected just fine... since that system runs about 300 bucks, CRS won't probably be buying it just to fix this bug.... also, it may be actually causing a totally different bug but I honestly don't think so...

now all that matters is if it's a usb keyboard, that make or model doesn't matter at all or if you've installed the manufacturer's drivers or not... [tho this has helped a small portion of people but only a small portion].

it's definatly all about the installed or enabled hid drivers, it may have something to do with what types of devices are installed and/or the amount of them.

I've seen it make every joystick or controller and all their axes and buttons and such become invisable to ww2ol, or just certain axes and/or button on one stick, or just entirely one stick become invisable...

now chipset make and model, windows operating system, cpu type, mobo drivers are not a factor at all either... as so with the make and models of the various input devices... it's more general a bug than just tied to one device...

some people have fixed this by unplugging thier g7 mouse before launching ww2ol and once it was fully loaded, they could plug it in and everything would work just fine...

that's just what I remember off the top of my head, there's much, much more which I sent several times to CRS over the years. I kinda washed my hands of troubleshooting this bug, not cause of CRS or anything like that as they have taken the time to look into it various times over the years but because that it would, at this point, take someone creating this bug on one of CRS's computers and a CRS programmer reviewing how thier input code isn't compensating for whatever windows is screwing up.

the input code is really simple and was reviewed several times by rickb, what's happening shouldn't be happening, it's some undocumented bug with either how windows handles hid drivers or prehaps somethign during installing them while hotswapping or it's something in direct x that's being handled wrong by ww2ol...

it's very frustrating, which is why I stopped pushing to figure out this bug after some many years and spending hours on the phone or through teamspeak or some chat room with person with this problem who's nicely allowing me to troubleshoot and document different possible factors for this occurance... I was fairly thorough about the whole affair. I'm also certainly not saying that "if I personally can't come up with the solution, then certainly no one else could either" as that's just not my style at all to be that arrogant. I just do NOT want to get in a whole discussion about it ALL OVER AGAIN as I've gone down that road so many damn times that it just isn't funny. honestly, when people start suggesting possible causes or whatnot, I just want to run away screaming at the top of my lungs while pulling out my hair... it's frustration at the bug, not at the people trying to figure it out from scratch, lol...

for me, it's in CRS's hands as it's past any way for me to further investigate what it could be, if we can just get them to replicate it in house or even have someone who has this problem on their system drop it off or ship it to them so they could study it's cause and properly fix it...

I'm definatly not any "expert" or anything when It comes to these deeper windows or programming problems, I do know my way around a computer, OS's, Input devices, and ww2ol itself. I just literally spent way too much time on this bug that it musta drove me a bit nuts over it, lol... I would kiss the feet of anyone who could figure it out so that CRS could take care of it.... but I'm definately totally burnt over doing any more research and testing into this bug on my own. I mean for like 3+ years, I was really into "championing" this bug and trying to use any favors from CRS that they owed me to get this thing fixed but progress on it just hit a brick wall. lol, it was even my very first question upon finally meeting rickb at the first official convention two years ago... lol...

so again, sorry if I came off crabby at all. it wasn't at all my intent to come off that way and didn't have a problem at all with anyone's posts in this thread at all. I just mighta been in some pain when posting and this bug, bugs the crap out of me...

cheers,

SgtSpoon

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Just want to say thanks, SgtSpoon for all your work on this issue over the years. I've had this bug as long as I've had my current machine, through all sorts of keyboards, mice and joysticks. If I lived close enough to CRS to deliver it in person, I'd bring my rig over there and let them play with it for a while. So frustrating that they can't reproduce it.

For anyone wondering about hardware, my initial setup was:

Apple USB keyboard, Logitech M515, Saitek X52

I now use:

Logitech G15 and G5, CH flight yoke, Throttle quadrant and pro pedals. (3 joysticks mapped to appear as 1 to the game -- if I don't do this the game still won't see one of them, probably due to this same problem)

The HID profile I choose to disable is the one that allows the keyboard to record macros. It still plays them back, but when I want to change/add one, I need to re-enable it.

Based on my experiences, I agree with SgtSpoon that the specific brand or type of hardware is not the issue, but it probably doesn't help that I always use stuff that has extra functions and macros, as that means more HID profiles.

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The HID profile I choose to disable is the one that allows the keyboard to record macros. It still plays them back, but when I want to change/add one, I need to re-enable it.

Is there any easy way to identify that particular HID? I have a G15 with an X45/Ch Pedals/VR Headset and I have to unplug the G15 before I start WW2OL (thanks SgtSpoon for that idea that finally resolved my problem). I never use the macro recording so I could do with out it.

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trial and error really is the only way to be sure.

disable one and then fire up ww2ol offline and see now if your joystick or controllers can be mapped in the keymapper. if yes, then you got it. if now, re-enable that hid and then disable the next one and then fire up ww2ol again. rinse, repeat.

you can change the view in device manager to "devices by connection".

and expand the usb trees...

it won't be one that's named for any joystick/controller or mouse [generic or manufacturer's] that's connected to your system, which will help narrow it down.

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Is there any easy way to identify that particular HID? I have a G15 with an X45/Ch Pedals/VR Headset and I have to unplug the G15 before I start WW2OL (thanks SgtSpoon for that idea that finally resolved my problem). I never use the macro recording so I could do with out it.
Currently I indentify it as "the second one from the bottom" but of course if I went around plugging and unplugging things that could change. The nice thing, rather than digging around unplugging USB cables, is that after starting the game, I can re-enable the HID in Device Manager and continue using it. Only problem is if I forget to disable it again before the next time I load the game -- once the game loads with the HID conflict, it won't recognize the joystick later no matter what you change, have to exit and re-open.

The main reason I wish this bug would get fixed is because I own several different joysticks that I like to use for other games, or to try something different in WWIIOL. Once I get the HID situation configured in a way that works, I'm hesitant to change any usb devices because I don't want to have to go through all the setup again.

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Currently I indentify it as "the second one from the bottom" but of course if I went around plugging and unplugging things that could change. The nice thing, rather than digging around unplugging USB cables, is that after starting the game, I can re-enable the HID in Device Manager and continue using it. Only problem is if I forget to disable it again before the next time I load the game -- once the game loads with the HID conflict, it won't recognize the joystick later no matter what you change, have to exit and re-open.

The main reason I wish this bug would get fixed is because I own several different joysticks that I like to use for other games, or to try something different in WWIIOL. Once I get the HID situation configured in a way that works, I'm hesitant to change any usb devices because I don't want to have to go through all the setup again.

well first of all, it's going to be a differnt hid in a different slot for any player.

and you can just leave the hid disabled and it won't ever bug you again [no pun intended] and you can add or remove any amount of usb devices as it doesn't have anything at all to do with the amount of usb devices in the least bit. you could have 10 or just two usb devices, it all has to do with just that one keyboard hid that causes the problem and absolutely nothing else... it's not as "delicate" a problem as you are thinking it is.... as long as that one hid that's causing the problem is disabled, you can make any other changes to your set up that you want to....

I do not see any fix happening soon as it's been going on for over 5 years, CRS have done alot of work on it and so have I. they just haven't been able to replicate it at all at thier offices and it just can't get fixed till they are able to do that....

cheers,

SgtSpoon

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