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New spawning system


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undercova

Instead of the weird and highly discussed spawn lists there should be a "points" system

 

- Every player gets base points every minute (point per minute / ppm)

- RDP, spawn delay can increase or decrease this slightly

- Maximum points pool is 100

- Every unit you can spawn (available to your rank) costs points

- Simple rifleman = 1 point (guarantees that you can always spawn them)

 

Settings

Base credits/points         5 ppm

Spawn delay                + 1 ppm (underpop) / - 1 (underpop) (max value)

RDP                              - 1 ppm (max value)

 

Unit costs

RIFLEMAN                 1

SMG                          10

SEMI                         15

LMG                          20

ATS                           30

ATG                           40-80

LIGHT TANK             35

MEDIUM TANK         45

HEAVY TANK            80-95 

FIGHTER                   30-55 

BOMBER                   50-95

 

These are only example values and should only give a small overview of the topic/idea.

This system makes the player responsible for the amount and type of equipment he can spawn in. It also prevents griefing or "wasting" supply

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BMBM

Funny, I was thinking of something similar but different and voluntary as an acheivement challenge to those so inclined (tanks only):

L1. Start with the lowliest pzII/R35/Vickers - complete a sortie in which you keep another tank safe from inf; recon a route or place; eliminate a gun. If you fail (ie die) you don’t level up and have to continue on L1.

L2. Grab the next tank up and kill at least one armored vehicle, and survive the sortie. If you die it’s back to L1.

L3. Und so weiter, if you die you’re bumped down a level.

I rather like the points system. I expect most would hate it though.

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undercova
3 hours ago, BMBM said:

Funny, I was thinking of something similar but different and voluntary as an acheivement challenge to those so inclined (tanks only):

L1. Start with the lowliest pzII/R35/Vickers - complete a sortie in which you keep another tank safe from inf; recon a route or place; eliminate a gun. If you fail (ie die) you don’t level up and have to continue on L1.

L2. Grab the next tank up and kill at least one armored vehicle, and survive the sortie. If you die it’s back to L1.

L3. Und so weiter, if you die you’re bumped down a level.

I rather like the points system. I expect most would hate it though.

too complex to code

points system would guarantee at least the most simple supply all the time .. and even good stuff

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tater

Any points system is better than what we have.

That said, I prefer @BMBM's version.

the 5 ppm seems kind of excessive, and any points system should have as a goal that units are more often available near the end of an attritted spawn list than they are now (ie: if you need a SMG, they should not always be blown through early).

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Elfin

Will there be minus points for those spawn camping?

Where for example, different players spawn in (because HC is yelling....ei in AB, ei in AB or cp or whatever and so the need to get in and defend/cap etc..)

And the aforesaid "camper", out of all proportion, kills whatever many of spawners.

Spawners...who of course...won't want to spawn because they will 'lose' points/not advance, be penalized, be less willing to "take one for the team" etc...i.e. spawn in to find the camper...

Result being one camper....stuff's an attack/defence. Which happens now ...but with less consequence...I would guess.

;)

Sorry a semi-serious question.

lol

I suppose the tension here is players who are playing for themselves versus players who are playing strategically for their side. (read: willing to lose some units for a bigger purpose)

Who knows...

S!

 

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undercova
42 minutes ago, tater said:

Any points system is better than what we have.

That said, I prefer @BMBM's version.

the 5 ppm seems kind of excessive, and any points system should have as a goal that units are more often available near the end of an attritted spawn list than they are now (ie: if you need a SMG, they should not always be blown through early).

5 ppm is just an example. the "cost" of units could be higher ... or the base ppm lower. it is about the mechanism/method at all

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raptor34
On 1/2/2021 at 4:01 AM, undercova said:

Instead of the weird and highly discussed spawn lists there should be a "points" system

 

- Every player gets base points every minute (point per minute / ppm)

- RDP, spawn delay can increase or decrease this slightly

- Maximum points pool is 100

- Every unit you can spawn (available to your rank) costs points

- Simple rifleman = 1 point (guarantees that you can always spawn them)

 

Settings

Base credits/points         5 ppm

Spawn delay                + 1 ppm (underpop) / - 1 (underpop) (max value)

RDP                              - 1 ppm (max value)

 

Unit costs

RIFLEMAN                 1

SMG                          10

SEMI                         15

LMG                          20

ATS                           30

ATG                           40-80

LIGHT TANK             35

MEDIUM TANK         45

HEAVY TANK            80-95 

FIGHTER                   30-55 

BOMBER                   50-95

 

These are only example values and should only give a small overview of the topic/idea.

This system makes the player responsible for the amount and type of equipment he can spawn in. It also prevents griefing or "wasting" supply

I’ve felt that WW2OL has long needed a system like this to encourage/reward tactics and teamwork that results in mission success (destroying the enemy while preserving blue forces). Well I’ve come at the problem from a different angle in the past I really like the simple solution that has been presented here, as well as the fact that it puts outcome on the players end. 

This would do wonders in the air war, as well as for armour. Even infantry combat might be improved with less “high value” units being burned through at the start of a fight and ensuring that larger numbers of more basic units (rifles) are in play at any one given time. 

I think the Rats should give this a serious look at for testing and development. 

S!

Edited by raptor34
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tater
On 1/5/2021 at 1:55 PM, undercova said:

5 ppm is just an example. the "cost" of units could be higher ... or the base ppm lower. it is about the mechanism/method at all

Gotcha.

It's an interesting idea, under the assumption all the knobs are made adjustable for easy tweaking.

How are different services addressed? So if you first pop on in a campaign, you have to wait before spawning some units? What about rarely played services for most like Navy? You gain points just being online, even if NOT spawned into navy, or are the points all shared? RTB returns the points, RES returns a fraction, MIA/KIA and the points are gone?

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tater
On 1/5/2021 at 1:55 PM, undercova said:

5 ppm is just an example. the "cost" of units could be higher ... or the base ppm lower. it is about the mechanism/method at all

Gotcha.

It's an interesting idea, under the assumption all the knobs are made adjustable for easy tweaking.

How are different services addressed? So if you first pop on in a campaign, you have to wait before spawning some units? What about rarely played services for most like Navy? You gain points just being online, even if NOT spawned into navy, or are the points all shared? RTB returns the points, RES returns a fraction, MIA/KIA and the points are gone?

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undercova
6 hours ago, tater said:

Gotcha.

It's an interesting idea, under the assumption all the knobs are made adjustable for easy tweaking.

How are different services addressed? So if you first pop on in a campaign, you have to wait before spawning some units? What about rarely played services for most like Navy? You gain points just being online, even if NOT spawned into navy, or are the points all shared? RTB returns the points, RES returns a fraction, MIA/KIA and the points are gone?

could be 100 points pool/max for each branch

so in theory you could jump between the branches and in the meantime the inactive branch "refills"

since DDs and freighters are the largest units in this game ... the pool max could be like 250 points ... and those units should cost a lot of points then. FMBs ofc much cheaper

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fidd

I think there's fundamental flaws in this which I've seen in other games, where one "earned" points to spawn high-value units, and lost them when that unit is killed:

  1. The problem of spawning in the teeth of a pre-camp as identified up-thread. Reluctance to spawn due pre-camping validates that as a tactic, and therefore encourages pre-camping gameplay. This is NOT a good idea from that stand-point alone.
  2. It will create ill-feeling between the player who loses an uber tank and the infantryman who was supposed to keep sappers off when, when the latter has to step away to put the cat out etc.
  3. The dreaded marketing-manager will be unable to resist giving points bonuses or similar to builders and other worthies, leading to either too many uber vehicles, or too few for the average account holder. Neither is smart, as you'd expect.
  4. It will increase the disappointment of the player who wasted the uber unit, when actually that's how we all learned not to waste them. By using them! Disappointment is not a feeling conducive to people keeping their accounts.
  5. Like RDP before it, If it does work enough to have an effect, there will be persistent opposition to it, if it doesn't have an effect, it's a completely pointless waste of dev-time, because it has >>no effect<<. There is no upside.
Edited by fidd
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undercova

Example table with different cases:

8juu8rP.jpg

Case 1: Sides even

Case 2: Light overpop allies

Case 3: Medium overpop allies

Case 4: Heavy overpop allies

Case 5: Sides even / allied factories max damage

Case 6: Sides even / axis factories 50% damage

Case 7: Medium overpop allies / axis factories 100% damage

Case 8: Light overpop allies / axis factories 40% damage

 

Town cut off => Unit costs like 2-3x more than normal

 

The base ppm or unit costs are just examples and can be simply adjusted. In the end there is no fight/argue/discussion anymore about availability of certain units unless your rank doesnt allow it.

 

In the shown table a base ppm of 3 would be better to guarantee that you have at least 1 ppm when you are max overpop and your factories have 100% damage :D

Edited by undercova
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