Cornered Rats

1.36 Briefing / Manual (MUST READ)

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XOOM

Lots of vital information here as we prepare to get into Closed / Open Beta, and the eventual release of 1.36 (Hybrid Supply). Every player needs to read this, save it, ask questions and prepare for what's coming. This is the low down of all important information and will be updated to answer any important questions that we may have missed. 1.36 Hybrid Supply discussion should take place in the forums (here).

eKII?d=yIl2AUoC8zA eKII?d=qj6IDK7rITs eKII?i=Ifc2zjygSt8:fvayvAN4qps:gIN9vFwOqvQ eKII?i=Ifc2zjygSt8:fvayvAN4qps:V_sGLiPBpWU eKII?i=Ifc2zjygSt8:fvayvAN4qps:F7zBnMyn0Lo
Ifc2zjygSt8

View the full article on battlegroundeurope.com

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On 3/22/2019 at 1:36 AM, Cornered Rats said:

XOOM

Lots of vital information here as we prepare to get into Closed / Open Beta, and the eventual release of 1.36 (Hybrid Supply). Every player needs to read this, save it, ask questions and prepare for what's coming. This is the low down of all important information and will be updated to answer any important questions that we may have missed. 1.36 Hybrid Supply discussion should take place in the forums (here).

eKII?d=yIl2AUoC8zA eKII?d=qj6IDK7rITs eKII?i=Ifc2zjygSt8:fvayvAN4qps:gIN9vFwOqvQ eKII?i=Ifc2zjygSt8:fvayvAN4qps:V_sGLiPBpWU eKII?i=Ifc2zjygSt8:fvayvAN4qps:F7zBnMyn0Lo

Ifc2zjygSt8

View the full article on battlegroundeurope.com

15 hours for a town that changes ownership to be resupplied?!  That literally makes that function useless...

 

Is that the same trickle rate for newly captured towns too?

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I could see it if you did it to a backline town .... and the game allowed u to then swap flags with a front line town after the trickle was complete. So it would be essentially a 2 step manuever. But ... i don't think the flag mechanics will work that way.

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I agree with it. Changing a towns ownership after the capture period should be long so that good consideration is taken when selecting what nation controls an area - preventing frequent garrison changes while also avoiding a mismatch of US/FR/UK forces all mixed up. Areas of responsibility will be key. 

Edited by raptor34

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*** 15 hours for a town that changes ownership to be resupplied?! 

I presume this to mean it will take 15 hours (hard coded, or RDP time? - adjusted for factories?)  for the complete trickle of all supply?

Not zero supply for 15 hours, then supplied.... ?

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1 hour ago, delems said:

*** 15 hours for a town that changes ownership to be resupplied?! 

I presume this to mean it will take 15 hours (hard coded, or RDP time? - adjusted for factories?)  for the complete trickle of all supply?

Not zero supply for 15 hours, then supplied.... ?

Delems is correct.. We are starting with whatever the RDP ticket timers are. Reason for that is if you have a French Garrison that you end up using most of the supply, allied HC could just swap the garrison to UK and get their supply back in less than half the time (if it was at 6 hours).. This may change in a future adjustment to the game. We had many ideas internally that can replace this system, we just don't have the time to implement it at this time. Remember that most Auto-AOs will come from an adjacent town, so the new town will have the same country. If its HC set, then if the HC just issues the AO from a brigade/garrison from the country they want the town to be, then it will be that country, third is that after the town is captured, the HC have the option to change garrison country for up to 10 or 15 (I forget which) minutes without penalty. 

I am pretty sure it will trickle over the 15 hours.

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2 hours ago, SCKING said:

Delems is correct.. We are starting with whatever the RDP ticket timers are. Reason for that is if you have a French Garrison that you end up using most of the supply, allied HC could just swap the garrison to UK and get their supply back in less than half the time (if it was at 6 hours).. This may change in a future adjustment to the game. We had many ideas internally that can replace this system, we just don't have the time to implement it at this time. Remember that most Auto-AOs will come from an adjacent town, so the new town will have the same country. If its HC set, then if the HC just issues the AO from a brigade/garrison from the country they want the town to be, then it will be that country, third is that after the town is captured, the HC have the option to change garrison country for up to 10 or 15 (I forget which) minutes without penalty. 

I am pretty sure it will trickle over the 15 hours.

Will a newly captured town also take 15 hours to fully resupply?

 

For any side.  Not talking about the Allied ownership mechanic. 

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3 hours ago, Capco said:

Will a newly captured town also take 15 hours to fully resupply?

 

For any side.  Not talking about the Allied ownership mechanic. 

No... Not sure what that is set to. 

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4 hours ago, Capco said:

Will a newly captured town also take 15 hours to fully resupply?

 

For any side.  Not talking about the Allied ownership mechanic. 

A newly captured town, will have a 10 minute delay before it becomes active. During that 10 minute period, Allied Officers can change the Garrison to the country ownership of their choosing, without penalty.

From there, a trickle rate from 0% to 100% supply will take 60 minutes, or 1 hour. German supply acts the same in every respect, except they will only have one Garrison country owner.

The 15 hour resupply penalty is for when Allied forces manually try to change an already determined owner and they decide to change it later. The reason it is set up this way is because it's the best option we could implement at the earliest opportunity to give you guys options without making it something gamed in a way that would provide an unfair supply replenish advantage. It is intentionally something you don't want to do without consideration. You will have the option to VETO a change within the first 5 minutes as it is in a proposal state, like AO and brigade movements today.

This 15 hour resupply matches the global setting of when a unit is expended to the time the factories rebuild and deploy that unit to the frontline... or what people refer to as RDP today.

Allied forces will be unable to change the ownership of a Garrison to a town which is connected to an active attack objective.

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I can't think of a situation where it would be advantageous for the Allies to self impose a penalty lol.  Any time we change ownership, that gives the Axis a 15 hour window to focus that area and break through.  Seriously though, I'm trying to think how this might be useful and it's not.  It's just a liability unless the Axis decide to ignore a huge potential advantage.  

 

Also, why are garrisons for newly captured towns not subject to the same 15 hours?  Why do those garrisons only take one hour to equip themselves if they too are popping out of thin air?  Surely the factories would take just as long to equip this new unit as it would to equip any other garrison that manually changes country ownership.  

 

It's seems that once again the Allies being made up of multiple countries will hamper their potential success.  The Axis will be able to overstock anywhere at any time without any type of country-based restriction.  The North-South split will be returning and we will have more problems than solutions, which is exactly what we were trying to avoid and exactly the problem that movable supply fixed in its entirety.  


 

(I also think 15 hours is a god awful base RDP timer as I've laid out countless times but I digress)

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If the factories are damaged, will that also affect this 15 hour ownership change mechanic?

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3 hours ago, Capco said:

If the factories are damaged, will that also affect this 15 hour ownership change mechanic?

No, it's a hard value set. I wouldn't advocate for any changes to that either.

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3 hours ago, Capco said:

I can't think of a situation where it would be advantageous for the Allies to self impose a penalty lol.  Any time we change ownership, that gives the Axis a 15 hour window to focus that area and break through.  Seriously though, I'm trying to think how this might be useful and it's not.  It's just a liability unless the Axis decide to ignore a huge potential advantage.  

It's an option for you guys as Allies to modify your lines. If we didn't include that, you wouldn't have one and it'd be North vs South all over again. This was key to the design and while it's rudimentary now can be built upon later.

3 hours ago, Capco said:

Also, why are garrisons for newly captured towns not subject to the same 15 hours?  Why do those garrisons only take one hour to equip themselves if they too are popping out of thin air?  Surely the factories would take just as long to equip this new unit as it would to equip any other garrison that manually changes country ownership.  

It's seems that once again the Allies being made up of multiple countries will hamper their potential success.  The Axis will be able to overstock anywhere at any time without any type of country-based restriction.  The North-South split will be returning and we will have more problems than solutions, which is exactly what we were trying to avoid and exactly the problem that movable supply fixed in its entirety.  

We've said all along that in our design plans the Allies having three different countries to consider by default will increase its difficulty in management. It doesn't take 15 hours to get some supply, that's just the total rebuild of 0% to 100% supply.

Flipping Garrisons around willy-nilly is not advisable for sure.

We've tried to help mitigate that by having no penalty for newly captured towns because both Allied and Axis forces have the same initial trickle in timer which will keep the war progressing and supply available for players.

Until we can implement something more robust for manually changing of supply, which we have a couple of options that have been discussed internally, this is what we have to give you the option to do what is needed.

We have also determined that we'll have THREE (3) move-able ground divisions on the start of 1.36 so this should help with move-able supply and variety. Might be able to have French move-able units around British Garrisons, vice versa to help offset things a bit in that regard.

We're almost to the point where the demand on HC should be dropping dramatically to manage and maneuver supply and players will have more supply to play and work with across the whole game world. Should be really great.

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I don't know the internal discussions and the reason for 15 hour cycle to change country on a Garrison (is it kind of hard coded maybe?). I guess there is a good reason for it. But maybe 4 hours to change country is a tad better… more reasonable? 15 hours will make the sector of the frontline where AHC wants to change country on a town will create a very weak soft spot for the Axis to exploit.

As it looks now without any experience from the new rules do I see this taking place like this (if it would take 4 hours). First AHC moves in a Brigade or two to defend the town they want to chance country at. Then AHC can chose to either change country for the Rear-town first and then change the Front line town. Or if there's no enemy Division close by that threatens the sector AHC can change the country for both front line and rear-town at the same time.

But I still argue that 4 hours (Maybe even 3 hours) for a Garrison to reach full strenght at the moment seems reasonable. Consider the 15 hours rule. After 5 hours is the spawn list only 1/3 of its strenght.

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On capturing a town, HC has a 10 minute window to do a penalty free faction swap and it will run at the normal 60 minute trickle to full

It is only when you go swapping towns around after the fact, that you get a 15 hour restructuring penalty.

And if one finds that there is good need to swap a town long after the fact, one could use flags to bolster the position
while the supply and logistics are getting things in order, plus you could prespawn from the leaving garrison as well, before the swap,
to counter a possible immediate response from the opposition

And dont forget, you do still have the neighboring area to set up a defense of the location until the convoys begin arriving.

And infantrywise, remember when we used to use the transport planes to restock infantry ?
You'd grab a couple engies from this place, and a couple from another etc, so you did not just simply deplete a location
(and someone would always jump out of the plane, with out a damned parachute LoL)

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3 hours ago, Sparre said:

I don't know the internal discussions and the reason for 15 hour cycle to change country on a Garrison (is it kind of hard coded maybe?). I guess there is a good reason for it. But maybe 4 hours to change country is a tad better… more reasonable? 15 hours will make the sector of the frontline where AHC wants to change country on a town will create a very weak soft spot for the Axis to exploit.

As it looks now without any experience from the new rules do I see this taking place like this (if it would take 4 hours). First AHC moves in a Brigade or two to defend the town they want to chance country at. Then AHC can chose to either change country for the Rear-town first and then change the Front line town. Or if there's no enemy Division close by that threatens the sector AHC can change the country for both front line and rear-town at the same time.

But I still argue that 4 hours (Maybe even 3 hours) for a Garrison to reach full strenght at the moment seems reasonable. Consider the 15 hours rule. After 5 hours is the spawn list only 1/3 of its strenght.

If we provided the Allies with this ability, that means they could, after an attack, change their town from French to British, and get 100% British supply in 4 hours. Meanwhile what ever German supply was expended would continue to follow that 15 hour resupply rate.

Let me make sure I am saying this properly... you can QUICKLY (5-10 minutes) replace a Country Owner of a Garrison at anytime, as long as it isn't linked to an AO'd town. It just takes 15 hours for that supply to come back together overall. That makes resupply consistent with what we have to work with on roll out between Allied and Axis forces.

If you change a country after it's already established, you should really have a solid reason for it and understand the risks involved. If we can reduce those risks in the future cleverly, we will. I understand why the Allies are concerned with this as it is currently designed but it's really important to have this as an option because without an option, it'd be a lot worse.

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I'm excited on how attrition is going to mean something again for the first time since june 2007.

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11 hours ago, XOOM said:

If we provided the Allies with this ability, that means they could, after an attack, change their town from French to British, and get 100% British supply in 4 hours. Meanwhile what ever German supply was expended would continue to follow that 15 hour resupply rate.

Let me make sure I am saying this properly... you can QUICKLY (5-10 minutes) replace a Country Owner of a Garrison at anytime, as long as it isn't linked to an AO'd town. It just takes 15 hours for that supply to come back together overall. That makes resupply consistent with what we have to work with on roll out between Allied and Axis forces.

If you change a country after it's already established, you should really have a solid reason for it and understand the risks involved. If we can reduce those risks in the future cleverly, we will. I understand why the Allies are concerned with this as it is currently designed but it's really important to have this as an option because without an option, it'd be a lot worse.

Aaah, ok now I understand the underlying reason for the 15 hour rule for a swap. It's totally legit.

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