Feedback - Blackout/Redout, what should it look/act like #3884

[nobrain]

Blackout seems to be bugged.

You dont really blackout. Screen gets only a little darker and you keep full control.

[snailtrail]

Blackout seems to be bugged.

You dont really blackout. Screen gets only a little darker and you keep full control.

I noticed that back in 1.31.0.29 Using GTS 250 w/196.25 drivers.

[GOPHUR]

Yeah that's not working right. Ticketed.

[GOPHUR]

Put Bloo and Doc on coming up with a plan here. If you flyboys have any input this is the place.

What should it look like? Act like?

[lutorm]

Not that I've ever blacked out but the description I remember is that you first lose color vision, and then things start blacking out from the periphery so you get more and more tunnel vision, but you're still fully conscious. Then it gets all black and you pass out.

[frantish]

To be precise, its called: G-LOK, or "G-force induced Loss Of Consciousness".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-LOC

Effects of g-forces

As g-force increases, or the longer it is sustained, the victim may suffer progressively:

Greyout- a loss of color vision

Tunnel vision - loss of peripheral vision, retaining only the center vision

Blackout a complete loss of vision but retaining consciousness.

G-LOC where consciousness is lost.

Recovery is usually prompt following removal of g-force but a period of several seconds of disorientation may occur. Brief but vivid dreams have been reported to follow G-LOC.

The line 'C' on figure 1 represents a gradual onset of +Gz at a rate of around 0.5G per second and shows that visual symptoms are likely after about 5 seconds and Loss of Consciousness about 1 second later at +4Gz. Line D shows a slower rate of +Gz onset, in this case visual symptoms will occur after 16 seconds (+4Gz) and G-LOC will intervene after 22 seconds when the acceleration will be +5Gz. Rapid onset of sustained +Gz, as shown in line B will result in G-LOC after about 4 seconds without any warning visual symptoms. However, very rapid onset +Gz that is not sustained at a high level, line A, may well result in no visual disturbances or G-LOC. This last feature is what saves many of our unlimited aerobatic pilots from suffering G-LOC more often, although they pull substantial G they do so for only very short periods

http://aeromedical.org/Articles/g-loc.html

The current system seems part way to whats describe above.

Sudden and sharp inputs, for instance, cause instant blackout and G-LOK, yet as the chart shows there is a couple of seconds where all it OK, and that recovery is fairly quick (although some reduced performance will occur).

I am sure its known already, so this will go a long way to a better flight/fight experience.

[snailtrail]

I don't fly much but think the more realistic the better.

Maybe the stamina should play more of a role in flying and go down more when pulling G's. With stamina you can resist blacking out with physical exertion but as you tire you'll black out easier. So when your stamina starts to lower you could can hear grunting and then heavy breathing and if the G's continue the screen would start to fade out. With full stamina you should handle quick G spikes(9+g's) with out risk of black out.

So in a dogfight not only does a pilot have to control the energy of their aircraft but the stamina or energy of themselves as well. It is probably similar to that now but could be more pronounced like the stamina bar is for running as a soldier.

[DOC]

Bloo and I will be looking at this to improve it, but a word of warning re: your expectations.

I don't think we'll be able to devote resources to a "new" blackout model being created from scratch, with the tunneling of G'lock and that kind of thing, although it would of course be very nice. Certainly not as part of this release, because we're way behind right now.

I have flown aerobatic combat (with laser tags) in light aircraft before and flown in a P-51 Mustang 2 seater so I have a little experience at what G experiences look like, and yes, even feel like too.

I just wanted to make sure if we don't have the "ants pants" G model you and us both would like after we are done with whatever we can do (given it isn't behaving as it should right now with the existing model) ... that you realize why that is if that's how it goes.

[clone9cz]

i don't fly much but think the more realistic the better.

Maybe the stamina should play more of a role in flying and go down more when pulling g's. With stamina you can resist blacking out with physical exertion but as you tire you'll black out easier. So when your stamina starts to lower you could can hear grunting and then heavy breathing and if the g's continue the screen would start to fade out. With full stamina you should handle quick g spikes(9+g's) with out risk of black out.

So in a dogfight not only does a pilot have to control the energy of their aircraft but the stamina or energy of themselves as well. It is probably similar to that now but could be more pronounced like the stamina bar is for running as a soldier.

vote

[frantish]

I just wanted to make sure if we don't have the "ants pants" G model you and us both would like after we are done with whatever we can do (given it isn't behaving as it should right now with the existing model) ... that you realize why that is if that's how it goes.

Lacking tunnel vision is OK, having the whole screen turn gray as visual effects kick would be nice.

As I said, adjusting the delay, timing and recovery from G-LOK would go a long way to improving the feel, as well as stamina effecting the event (per snailtrail).

[khamsin]

IMO bring back the model that WW2OL had on day 1 of its release. That was just about perfect.

With hard maneuvering the pilot would lose stamina, which affected his ability to avoid blackout. A 109-v-Spit duel would boil down to a balance between sheer turn ability and blackout tolerance, and it was common (at least I found it to be so) that in a turnfight the pilot would have to extend periodically in order to recover stamina.

[metaldan]

I'm not sure if this is a bug or "working as intended" but I was testing the red-outs after reading this thread and noticed that it wasn't fading in or out for me. It was all or nothing. when inducing a negative-g dive or turn, the screen would instantly become full red for a second or two and then instantly disappear.

Or if I kept on it a little longer, it would become full red for a couple of seconds, then the red would be replaced by full blackout (you can still see a little but no tunnel-vision, just fullscreen dim)... no fading in or out. also, why would it go from full red, to full blackout instantly?

anyone else getting this?

[st101]

Googled hi G turns and came up with this

http://aviationknowledge.wikidot.com/aviation:g-loc-gravity-induced-loss-of-consciousness

hope it helps

[DOC]

Well I can help you understand the current situation better now, having had a session with the coders and Gophur on this.

When we changed the hits and lighting and explosion effects to the new system, we also got a new wound/death/blackout/redout system, although at first it wasn't immediately obvious that replacing one would affect the other in precisely the way it did.

So, we are redoing wounding/death/blackout/redout ... and what you are seeing in the current beta client is not what we will have at release when we are done.

This thread is about discussion that will drive the changes we will work into the redoing iof these wound/death/blackout/redout effects between now and release.

At the present moment, we are looking at redscreen being an avatar/infantry/crew wound effect, fade to black being the death effect, and a decreasing tunnel vision in black (like a manipulated or controlled death fade) or red (positive versus negative G) with control loss for the pilot G effect.

Just so you know what we're thinking at the moment.

[frantish]

Anyone check out the new effects?