Feedback - Capture

[GOPHUR]

This is a new thread that covers changes since 1.31.0.33.

Basically, here's how capture works now:

- If there are cappers present, it ignores defenders and advances the bar in favor of capture,

- Capture progress is not canceled by a player dying or leaving the building,

- If there are no cappers present, defenders move the bar back towards 0 at the same rate as the same number of cappers would,

We felt that it would be wrong to leave a building partially captured indefinitely, this gave us two choices:

a- An automatic, instant reset to 0 after a given time,

b- A gradual "decay"

We felt that the decay would provide better gameplay: you get the bar to 70% and die, now you have a reason to run back, but that reason is slowly fading too...

We considered having only the auto-decay mechanism, with defenders having no impact on the defense - this would remove the "bunker duty" perspective.

However, we realized that defenders would see this as unfair: 12 people in a building, but it's still 70% captured, wtf?

So we made the decay longer than the 1-man 100% capture speed.

Note: The decay is not a fixed time. It is a time that 100% would take to uncapture.

We may modify capture times as we progress through beta and may also change some functionality but this basic outline should provide enough for some feedback.

The old feedback thread can be found here.

Edited April 9, 2010 by GOPHUR

[Jizzyjaz]

I sat in a brigadeless town yesterday, for 12 minutes capturing a building.

Are you expecting soft cap towns to require a large amount of people?

Secondly i noticed that as soon as the AO was placed i was able to start capping immediately. Couldn't this pose serious problems especially the sides are unbalanced?

Overall i feel for 1 person 12 minutes is a little strong ( i left and watched TV ffs) I understand your trying to avoid ninja cappers and such, but i personally feel 5 minutes is enough time for someone to run in and check the town.

As for capping with loads of people, i haven't had enough to try it out.

[snailtrail]

Overall i feel for 1 person 12 minutes is a little strong ( i left and watched TV ffs) I understand your trying to avoid ninja cappers and such, but i personally feel 5 minutes is enough time for someone to run in and check the town.

The less effect 1 person has the better it is for the game, imo. It will help group people together and the side effect would be teamwork. If it were up to me one person wouldn't be able to cap at all but one person would stop the timer decay and would hold the timer.

It will be interesting to see how the timers function with a large attack.

[Jizzyjaz]

The less effect 1 person has the better it is for the game, imo. It will help group people together and the side effect would be teamwork. If it were up to me one person wouldn't be able to cap at all but one person would stop the timer decay and would hold the timer.

It will be interesting to see how the timers function with a large attack.

I wouldn't complain about a 12 min timer if you get rid of AI, isn't that the point of AI?

[DOC]

Making correlations to what AI is there for is not going to illuminate capture issues much because the two are totally unrelated really, other than AI nationality matching ownership of the facility it belongs to nationality. AI can be a different nationality at one end of the street to the other, including being enemies of each other.

This discussion has to center around existing capture methods under test and timers only because between now and release there isn't going to be any new code. We're in feature freeze until release, so the trick now is to focus on how it works now and how it can be polished using the timers we have to polish it's functioning with.

We could wish for all sorts of stuff and after we get this release out we will begin wishing all over again, for the next release.

[snailtrail]

We're in feature freeze until release' date=' so the trick now is to focus on how it works now and how it can be polished using the timers we have to polish it's functioning with.[/quote']

Are the timers global or can each facility type have different length timers?

[romzburg]

The description in the OP sounds great to me. I was unable to play any today and experience it, but I love the way it sounds.

_______________

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[DOC]

Timers *might* be able to be differentiated for military (AB, AF and Docks) facilities separate from depots/citiy facilities, but that is not confirmed yet and if it can be, that will be the only differentiation possible at this time.

So they are global with the POSSIBILITY of 2 layers. Or maybe just the one depending on what we find over the next week of tweaking.

[speed]

I think the timer is a bit too long.Being in a flag house that long with few places to defend yourself in there.Taken the logic changed,but the radio room is the same.

We may understand the team up feature,but being in a room waiting long minutes is kinda demotivating,unless we could defend properly the flag house.

I see piles & piles of bodies stacked up on a major attack,people spawning over&over again right next to the flag house,in the adjacent depot.

We could have a timer for ALL spawnable features;If you die,10 seconds SD,again,20 sec.,again 30 sec.In my opinion "the fear of death"would make fights more realistic and,give

attacking forces a chance to set perimeter,without the ant spawning like crazy effect.

The death cam feature already over,big progress.I think people should fear death,or be punished by the SD timer,on any event..Ab,Fb,depots,Ms's,planes and such,IMHO.

S!

Speed

[snailtrail]

I think the timer is a bit too long.Being in a flag house that long with few places to defend yourself in there.Taken the logic changed,but the radio room is the same.

We may understand the team up feature,but being in a room waiting long minutes is kinda demotivating,unless we could defend properly the flag house.

I see piles & piles of bodies stacked up on a major attack,people spawning over&over again right next to the flag house,in the adjacent depot.

We could have a timer for ALL spawnable features;If you die,10 seconds SD,again,20 sec.,again 30 sec.In my opinion "the fear of death"would make fights more realistic and,give

attacking forces a chance to set perimeter,without the ant spawning like crazy effect.

The death cam feature already over,big progress.I think people should fear death,or be punished by the SD timer,on any event..Ab,Fb,depots,Ms's,planes and such,IMHO.

S!

Speed

If you go in there with a group of people it wouldn't take long to capture. The hard part is to get that group together because as soon as people spawn they take off rather than wait for others. Maybe habits will change? I am just afraid that as long as 1 person alone can capture (although longer) that it will make it much harder to break the habit and instead frustrate the lone player because it takes too long. Time will tell.

It would be very cool if CRS tried a different capping timer each day next week to see which works best. Just describe the timer settings when joining the 1.31 server.

Maybe everyone could offer what they think would work and give it a try?

mine is;

1 person capping time=N/A but can hold/pause the timer

2 people=5 minutes

3 people=4 1/2

4 people=4

5 people=3 1/2

6 people=3

7 people=2 1/2

8 people=2

9 people=1 1/2

10< people=1 minute

[Jizzyjaz]

The timers are just plain long, 12 minutes may get rid of one person sneak capping, but it will also get rid of players not willing to sit in a building for 12 minutes during low pop hoping to not get killed.

Also, i agree with the statement about different timer lengths for the Ab/AF/Docks; those are supposed to be big capture points, why not make them that way.

P.S. Ai sucks :-)

[Tandel]

i kinda like the SD timer on death idea. it could be implemented instead of the global SD timer as well..

#1 it would stop the lemming effect.

#2 could use it to balance sides.

etc.

as for capping, i havent really had a chance to test it yet, but i think 12 minutes might be a tad long for 1 person.

id say 6-8 min for 1 person

5-7 for 2

4-6 for 3

3-5 for 4

2-4 for 5+

the idea being to give the defense time to clear the cp with a mass rush.

which brings up another interesting point.

- we need to make those buildings undestroyable. no sappers or tanks to blow them up and kill everyone inside. that way, there is a better chance for each side to capture or defend the building.

id love to see tank traps across every major entrance into a city as well to stop tank camping of cps.

[Jizzyjaz]

- we need to make those buildings undestroyable. no sappers or tanks to blow them up and kill everyone inside. that way, there is a better chance for each side to capture or defend the building.

I disagree fully. If i were to attach a friggin bomb to a building, everyone in side would more than likely die.

Thats how it is in real life.

[snailtrail]

CRS, just curious how the capture mechanics work. Is it the foundation of the building that determines the capture zone or are you using a separate capture zone outline that is drawn to the same size of the building?

Reason for asking is it would be very interesting if the whole compound of the new AB's(ie. ramet armybase,ect) were the capture zone rather than just the bunker building. It would create some pretty wild fights in the compound.

[GOPHUR]

CRS, just curious how the capture mechanics work. Is it the foundation of the building that determines the capture zone or are you using a separate capture zone outline that is drawn to the same size of the building?

Reason for asking is it would be very interesting if the whole compound of the new AB's(ie. ramet armybase,ect) were the capture zone rather than just the bunker building. It would create some pretty wild fights in the compound.

The floor. Any floor we tag actually.

[snailtrail]

The floor. Any floor we tag actually.

Thanks, Gophur.

If you sink the floor under the ground can you still capture it or do you have to be physically standing on the structure? I know it is possible to capture while on a roof of a cp. If you just have to be over the floor perimeter can a para trigger the capture system from 100+ft up?

[romzburg]

Thanks, Gophur.

If you sink the floor under the ground can you still capture it or do you have to be physically standing on the structure? I know it is possible to capture while on a roof of a cp. If you just have to be over the floor perimeter can a para trigger the capture system from 100+ft up?

Oh man.

Drop from 20,000 feet in a tight group and watch the enemy go crazy trying to find the cappers, and you finally land and the flag is already yours.

________________

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[frantish]

Oh man.

Drop from 20,000 feet in a tight group and watch the enemy go crazy trying to find the cappers, and you finally land and the flag is already yours.

________________

Have to be in contact with floor, I found out.

Gophur, is the ability to start capture the moment the AO is up, or after a short (4 min?) delay?

[Jizzyjaz]

Have to be in contact with floor, I found out.

Gophur, is the ability to start capture the moment the AO is up, or after a short (4 min?) delay?

as it stands right now its right away.

[snailtrail]

Have to be in contact with floor, I found out.

Gophur, is the ability to start capture the moment the AO is up, or after a short (4 min?) delay?

I just noticed that too. Must of been recently changed? I recall capping from roof top in previous versions.

[snailtrail]

Another capture question/comment:

How long does someone have to be in a building to get an assist in capturing?

Also, will we be notified when a facility is being overrun/captured? The way it is now is frustrating when you don't have enough people to guard all the facilities and then a facility on the other side of town gets ninja capped. If something is being overrun the owners of the cp could be alerted so they can defend it.

[romzburg]

Another capture question/comment:

How long does someone have to be in a building to get an assist in capturing?

Also, will we be notified when a facility is being overrun/captured? The way it is now is frustrating when you don't have enough people to guard all the facilities and then a facility on the other side of town gets ninja capped. If something is being overrun the owners of the cp could be alerted so they can defend it.

I don't like this idea.

I *think* the way it works now in beta is that if you are in EITHER the Depot, or the Flag building itself you'll get a notification. (Seems like when I was in a Depot I saw those notices...but it has been a while since I was in beta testing cap functions, I might have this wrong.)

That should be enough, being notified if you are in either the depot or the flag building. Burt elsewhere in town, I'd say "no notification".

It takes so long to cap by a lone capper you can just jog in there and check every few minutes.

_________________

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[ancord]

Looks like a set back for players in low pop. Usually a single player is tasked with capping towns behind its own lines, from the timers spoken about a town capture would take 1hr 30mins +.

Solution is softcaps are promoted to P1 when needed, to get the playerbase there to cap in a reasonable time period. Instead of 1 player not encountering action we now need 5-6 players to softcap the town in the usually 22mins.

I dont see any incentive to cap during low pop, the capture system would be geared for high pop only where player numbers are available.

[khbigjoe]

Looks like a set back for players in low pop. Usually a single player is tasked with capping towns behind its own lines, from the timers spoken about a town capture would take 1hr 30mins +.

Solution is softcaps are promoted to P1 when needed, to get the playerbase there to cap in a reasonable time period. Instead of 1 player not encountering action we now need 5-6 players to softcap the town in the usually 22mins.

I dont see any incentive to cap during low pop, the capture system would be geared for high pop only where player numbers are available.

Maybe softcaps can be faster cap timers?

Or perhaps we can get any pockets of empty enemy towns behind our lines to automatically flip to our side after a certain period..so this sort of 'tidying up' isnt required?

[snailtrail]

I don't like this idea.

I *think* the way it works now in beta is that if you are in EITHER the Depot, or the Flag building itself you'll get a notification. (Seems like when I was in a Depot I saw those notices...but it has been a while since I was in beta testing cap functions, I might have this wrong.)

That should be enough, being notified if you are in either the depot or the flag building. Burt elsewhere in town, I'd say "no notification".

It takes so long to cap by a lone capper you can just jog in there and check every few minutes.

_________________

It would be more realistic if people knew a facility is being overrun. These depots, factories,ect, would be full of people in real life and if the enemy came in to overrun the word would get out pretty quickly. Maybe only send out an alert when it is 50% or 75% captured.

Notify people that a facility is being overrun and make that ninja capper earn his keep. It would improve the game. It might not be so good for the ninjas but it would improve it for everyone else.

Edited April 14, 2010 by snailtrail