Feedback - Capture Mechanics

[dvc]

If people are hungry for points they will run off and start capping another cp, perhaps, when someone enters the first cp before them.

When its a matter of teamplay this is a me or us scenario - people will have to choose. Perhaps not a biggy but a consideration.

ment when its fully capped.. personally i spend "too much" time guarding etc ;P

[vicerol]

I like this way of capping because you wont have people be like, "hey you stole my capp". This will promote better team play and less hero 1 man armys. The time it takes to capture is fine, its going to help more team play.

[GOPHUR]

Who gets credit for a cap in 1.31? All who helped' date=' or only the first guy to get inside?[/quote']

Scoring is broken right now. Here's the design:

• all attackers present when the facility ownership changes will score a point

• all defenders present when the facility is completely liberated will recieve a point

[GOPHUR]

Will the timers be reduced if the players want it?

No. The timers may be increased or reduced depending on how the game plays. There are numerous other changes that may happen as well.

What will not happen is making changes that are solely directed at making it easier for a solo attacker to capture a facility.

[drkpatch]

This will be ignored, as everything I write here is, but here goes anyways:

I think the new capture system makes it far more important that everyone focuses on just capping one CP at a time. For this reason I think you need to provide better feedback to the players about what CP everyone is attacking or defending.

I realize there already are markers, specifically for what the target is, but they aren't really used as intended. A mission may be an hour old, and the focus is no longer the first CP, but the target marker would be there.

Here's what I propose:

A new marker, something a bit more eye-catching than a colored triangle, that can be placed by the OIC, or any ML can create one that the OIC must approve, and if there's no OIC then any other ML can veto. This marker shows up on the minimap and has the compass pointer pointing to it. This marker can be seen by any friendly.

I don't know what to call it, but the message it sends is "This is what we're trying to cap".

[hchris]

New Capture mechanics worked great in every stress test so far. I like them really very much.

[GOPHUR]

This will be ignored, as everything I write here is, but here goes anyways:

I think the new capture system makes it far more important that everyone focuses on just capping one CP at a time. For this reason I think you need to provide better feedback to the players about what CP everyone is attacking or defending.

I realize there already are markers, specifically for what the target is, but they aren't really used as intended. A mission may be an hour old, and the focus is no longer the first CP, but the target marker would be there.

Here's what I propose:

A new marker, something a bit more eye-catching than a colored triangle, that can be placed by the OIC, or any ML can create one that the OIC must approve, and if there's no OIC then any other ML can veto. This marker shows up on the minimap and has the compass pointer pointing to it. This marker can be seen by any friendly.

I don't know what to call it, but the message it sends is "This is what we're trying to cap".

It's not a bad idea. I read it the first time. It's just WAY to late in the dev cycle for me to spend time wishing for new features that are not going to happen this far past feature freeze.

[GOPHUR]

DOH. Duplicate myself LOL.

[samson]

Scoring is broken right now. Here's the design:

• all attackers present when the facility ownership changes will score a point

• all defenders present when the facility is completely liberated will recieve a point

I've always thought that one point per capture was a bit measly. Now that you're promoting more team work in the capture mechanics, any chance that more cappers = more points, might persuade more people to attack and defend CPs as a team?

I know it's a fine balance, but I started a second account not so long ago and as I was trying to rank up, defending or attacking CPs just wasn't worth the time, compared to taking out an ATG for instance.

I don't like the CTF side of the game that much, but I think you need to reward people a bit more for doing it. Right now it's a pretty thankless task, defending especially.

[GOPHUR]

Good point. I'll keep it in mind.

[mangl]

aye 1 point "helping cap" ..... or a few dozen for sitting outside sniping

guess where I will be

a selfish responce to be sure , but reality generally is

Edited June 7, 2010 by mangl

[snailtrail]

I still feel single player capture time needs to be increased further. Set it to the point where people won't do it (ie. 60+ minutes). At 8 minutes it is short enough for people to do it but long enough to make them complain and get frustrated.

Edited June 7, 2010 by snailtrail

[heavymetal]

aye 1 point "helping cap" ..... or a few dozen for sitting outside sniping

guess where I will be

a selfish responce to be sure , but reality generally is

You will get even more if you're sitting inside sniping, or ambushing from a corner. The flag building I mean, not the barracks.

[heavymetal]

Scoring is broken right now. Here's the design:

• all attackers present when the facility ownership changes will score a point

• all defenders present when the facility is completely liberated will recieve a point

Scoring is still broken for me, despite being on the live server. I made 4 caps in 3 towns today, no score or credit at all. 1 was all alone, 1 was first in, last out, 1 was joining late and 1 didn't even start due to a bug (Aachen AFAB, was fixed by DOC by changing ownership manually).

[delems]

In general, like the new method.

It does seem a bit slow for solo libber of a depot though.

I also have got zero points for capping, whether with others or by myself.

1 point for capping!!! Are you loco? It used to be 20 points per cap.. whats up with this 1 point stuff?

[aeropaus]

I think the current timers are perfect.

I don't agree that 8 minutes is too long for a solo cap, because solo capping should be punished severely. Even in lowpop, there are less defenders and its not that hard to drum up 2-3 players per CP.

GJ rats!

[binky]

I'm liking the capture system, seems to portray the area control concept well. The one thing I'm not fond of is the on screen feedback of capping and libbing. The progress bar is fine, but there should be some representation of who/what is contributing to moving that progress bar. I don't have any great ideas, perhaps someone with experience in other games may have an idea.

[branko]

The mechanics are OK. As an LW I guess I could say that I seem to have less of a reason to get into town, but I think that is probably intended.

While I wouldn't say it promotes "team play" as intended, it does seem to lead to a number of people getting to a CP (however they can) to "support" a capture. However, I've not seen much evidence of it improving how people get to the CP (i.e. in a group).

Timers seem OK. It feels like weeks for 1 or 2 cappers and very quick with 6+. I guess that was the intent.

On Screen Feedback

I know we'll get use to it, but sometimes it just seems plain odd. I'll guarantee you that noobs will have no idea what is going on. Maybe some words (on the bar) might help?

For instance:

I was Allied (alone) in an Allied Depot in an Axis held town

2 AXIS players entered the structure.

1 more Allied player entered and we killed the two Axis.

The blue bar went "down" - from Right-To-Left - increasing its RED value.

The last bit seemed very confusing ...

People were asking whether it should be going Blue (or red). I didn't know either, but figured as it would only be a short wait that I would find out soon.

I think it would always make sense that for Allied "taking possession" the blue should always increase and for Axis the red should always increase. Regardless of the current, past and future states of the facility.

I also think it may help to put "Allied Gaining Control" (or the reverse) in the graphic somewhere. Regardless of my current side, I should see exactly who is gaining possession. I think that could alternate with "Allied in Possession" (maybe every ten seconds?). So that, within 10 seconds, I can read who has possession and who - if anyone - is gaining it.

Just my 10c worth.

(I also think we need more time to figure it all out. I have lost count of the number of people rushing "upstairs" (on their own) to kill a lone EI - When simply waiting downstairs (for more people) will stall a cap ... I think! ... So maybe things will improve further as we all get use to it)

Edited June 10, 2010 by branko

[GOPHUR]

I wish you guys had tried beta last night. Would really have liked feedback on the changes to this.

Great feedback gents. TY.

[GOPHUR]

1.31.1.1:

Capture:

- Capture score is now awarded to people who are inside the capture building on capture, instead of not awarded to people who are not inside the building (that should help!)

- Put some better arrows on the capture bar

- Fixed lack of capture arrow when defending (uncapping) a partially capped friendly facility

- Updated the text:

any facility, no AO: "no attack objective"

any facility, capture pending: "capturable in Xm Ys"

military facility, not contested: "town not contested"

friendly facility: "allied owned" or "axis owned"

friendly capture: "friendly capturing"

friendly uncapture: "defending"

enemy capture: "enemy capturing"

capturable facility: "capturable"

contested facility: "contested"

[mangl]

I still think the points are to few (what about guarding points they ever coming back ?)

and IMO further punish's the side thats already low pop , all to often ive seen days , seems like weeks straight , of 5-8 defenders being attacked by 30-40

without a SLIDING SCALE cap timer dependant on over/under pop , itll go from "hard" recapping (as it was) to utterly impossible and futile , might as well just hole up in bunker and watch town fall around ya , cause nuthing so few can do

[branko]

I wish you guys had tried beta last night. Would really have liked feedback on the changes to this.

Great feedback gents. TY.

The messages that now go with capping in 1.31.1 are much better.

I still think it is a bit confusing when a "defensive cap" makes the bar go the opposite way, in the opposite colour, to a normal cap ... but with the messages above the bar it is much easier to understand.

Cheers.

[binky]

Agreed, the capture feedback is improved with the new messages and arrows.

[GOPHUR]

I still think the points are to few (what about guarding points they ever coming back ?)

and IMO further punish's the side thats already low pop , all to often ive seen days , seems like weeks straight , of 5-8 defenders being attacked by 30-40

without a SLIDING SCALE cap timer dependant on over/under pop , itll go from "hard" recapping (as it was) to utterly impossible and futile , might as well just hole up in bunker and watch town fall around ya , cause nuthing so few can do

The problem is that there is NEVER an over pop balance of 1 to 6. EVER. So a sliding scale would have no impact on that local imbalance. Further, the sliding scale would be almost impossible to manage locally without causing players to game it.

[snailtrail]

I'm enjoying the new capture system and the recent capture state messages. It is making for much more fun and intense action.