Round Accuracy

[dm79]

Been told the 88 is doing this as well.

[DOC]

I think it has more to do with the range of things that have changed:-

1) tracer smoke trails are different

2) tracer size and luminosity have been reduced

3) lighting throughout the game has changed enormously

4) SMGs have much tighter grouping and players are still hauling the muzzle around with the mouse from ingrained habit where it is nowhere near as required as it used to be

5) muzzle flashes and lighting have changed a lot

6) hit effects have changed

7) what hasn't changed is we made zero, as in none ... no changes to any ammunition or weapon performance in the form of recoil or dispersion, except for the SMGs alone; to tighten up their full auto handling

Going through what didn't get changed regarding weapons we cannot find any weapon data to "change back" because none of that data was changed, so we can't change it back. Except for the SMGs and after testing them yet again, and matching their bullrt groupings, there isn't ant change suggested by those results. I know you're saying it feels different but we cannot change feel we have to change data, and if data didn't change we can't find a solution to "feels different" by putting in different data.

[dm79]

I think it has more to do with the range of things that have changed:-

1) tracer smoke trails are different

2) tracer size and luminosity have been reduced

3) lighting throughout the game has changed enormously

4) SMGs have much tighter grouping and players are still hauling the muzzle around with the mouse from ingrained habit where it is nowhere near as required as it used to be

5) muzzle flashes and lighting have changed a lot

6) hit effects have changed

7) what hasn't changed is we made zero, as in none ... no changes to any ammunition or weapon performance in the form of recoil or dispersion, except for the SMGs alone; to tighten up their full auto handling

Going through what didn't get changed regarding weapons we cannot find any weapon data to "change back" because none of that data was changed, so we can't change it back. Except for the SMGs and after testing them yet again, and matching their bullrt groupings, there isn't ant change suggested by those results. I know you're saying it feels different but we cannot change feel we have to change data, and if data didn't change we can't find a solution to "feels different" by putting in different data.

I know Doc, the problem is strange though and i don't get it every time I log in, it feels like the dispersion goes loopy, the rounds become very inaccurate for were they should land, it harder to notice at closer ranges, but further out its very clear.

[dm79]

Could it be that the art work is not lining up correctly with the round? So the round is landing and the visual is landing else were?

[DOC]

the part that leaps out at me is "become inaccurate" .... the code cannot change nor can the data, if the weapon is X acurate here then a moment later it cannot become Y accurate

there were issues we had to solve with regard to input devices, including joysticks and mouses, as a result of Microsoft changes with Windows OS (7, Vista) and DirectX 8 which is now a requirement

if the performance and "feel" of a weapon, be it a small arm like an SMG or how a plane flies, is proving inconsistant then I would look towards the controller as the place to look first

data and code always stays constant, it doesn't change on the fly nor does it behave differently for this guy over here than that guy over there, that always suggests an issue with a peripheral device

listen we would like every single one of you to have a stellar experience and for nobody to have any issues, although it seems sometimes a few feel we like to leave you with issues, which i can assure you is the very last thing we want

but to find and fix anything we need to know where to look and with that being a thousand different places, we need solid analysis to find it or the 2 guys we have to do it are never gonna make any differance to what you have, and boy they want to make that differance

PS: I don't think it's art but the animation may be contributing, unfortunately the animation cannot be changed until the big infantry remake and we did make the bullet spread somewhat tighter (SMGs) than it was before but we could not alter the "shaking" animation so in effect, players who do not trust that the spread is tighter might be overcompensating the movement with their mouse, fearing the gun is shooting all over creation when it is not

here's what you can do:

(logical analysis and process of elimination helps identify not that there is an issue but where it is or is not - very critical to getting 1,000 things done with 2 guys doing the work )

find a wall or target that can show you the resulting bullet spread or grouping with the hit marks

shoot like you always do, screenshot the results

then change what you are doing, to get a different result - screenshot that

draw a conclusion based on what was different in the 2 tests

if you can think or propose (theory) a 3rd or 4th test, do them and compare and so on

my guess is that instead of pointing the gun and being guided by trust the bullets go where they are supposed to (ignoring the "shaking" animation completely) most having issues are actually trying to compensate for the "shaking around" .......... which is largely irrelevent as the animation and the weapon performance (bullet spread) cannot always be the same thing, code is not real life, they are two different things which we have to artifically match up to pretend to be like real life

so take into account what you are testing

it's an artifical construct

shaking animation is an art rendered routine built up from a series of "steps" blended together

bullet performance from a gun is data embedded in the weapon

the two are independant of each other, we just try to make them look like they are one and the same

we could not change the "shaking" animation this release (thats part of an infantry remake that is rather more work and will come later on) but we did change the bullet spread

I think there is enough here for you to work it out, after you've had a shot at it, let us know what it taught you about whats going on

that way we might make some progress, and your understanding (and the expectations that arise from it) is also progress, you know ?

[Fredrik1]

fraps it, next time it happens.

sorry guys but I must agree with DOC.

just fired a 60 rounds through the pak36 on the 1000 yards range offline and all but one which was a flyer hit the target.

Also never noticed anything wrong in game.

[dm79]

Will try and get some thing more real to see and analyse, rather than a feeling.

[GOPHUR]

Could it reside in our CFML files maybe which we all have configured (sgtspoon) to move minutely around to adjust things. Perhaps the way these are dealt with is different?

I don't think that would have any bearing.

[dm79]

Been looking at this trying to work it out, the one thing that i kep noticing over and over is how far the aim sight jumps after each shot, now i have noticed that on some ground this jump is worse than on others, if the aim was thrown off a lot more than it use to be then that would explain why the readjustment for the shot missing looks whacky. Could there be some sort of tank ground contact problem?

Shoot

sight jumps

adjust to were round landed

shoot round goes further than it should have

sight jumped

adjust to correct over shot based on were the aim currently is

shoot round over shoot by even more

Sight jumped

Adjust to correct

Round lands way top short.

on and on

Also some t8imes the rounds look like they pass though the object and the smoke after firing is not helping its too thick and does not disperse fast enough.

Views?

Edited July 12, 2010 by dm79

[jaguar12]

i think theres an important element here that noone has mentioned.

the dreaded LAG/LATENCY factor.

ive been noticin these issues a lot since i started playin again month. sometimes the accuracy is off and sometimes it aint. sometimes a kill/hit gets registered, sometimes it dont.

the lag in BE can be awful, especially for players outside the usa and that can account for all sorts of issues, one being shot accuracy.

this would also explain why these issues are almost never found on the training server. no lag/latency issues there.

until everyone has fibre obtic cable or CRS open up servers outside of the usa, its somethin we just have to live with i guess, no matter how REALLY annoyin it can be.

Edited July 16, 2010 by jaguar12

[Fredrik1]

i think theres an important element here that noone has mentioned.

the dreaded LAG/LATENCY factor.

ive been noticin these issues a lot since i started playin again month. sometimes the accuracy is off and sometimes it aint. sometimes a kill/hit gets registered, sometimes it dont.

the lag in BE can be awful, especially for players outside the usa and that can account for all sorts of issues, one being shot accuracy.

this would also explain why these issues are almost never found on the training server. no lag/latency issues there.

until everyone has fibre obtic cable or CRS open up servers outside of the usa, its somethin we just have to live with i guess, no matter how REALLY annoyin it can be.

Most of everything that happens in the game is client based, and as little as possible is actually sent to the server. This is unlike games like counter strike where most of the entire game takes place on the server and thus you get an exact representation of what is happening.

Your rounds are all calculated on your machine and are not subject to internet lag.

[synxer]

DM79 - I know exactly what your talking about. I only see this happen when im playing armor usually STUGs. One shot will be dead on hit.. Next shot i aim same spot and it shoots 50 to 100 meters short or long.. I thought it was just me. Another thing is when using the STUG 3G i know shooting at long ranges 1.5k+ It always shoots to the left atleast 25 meters... I will try to get some footage sunday when I return home.

[jaguar12]

Most of everything that happens in the game is client based, and as little as possible is actually sent to the server. This is unlike games like counter strike where most of the entire game takes place on the server and thus you get an exact representation of what is happening.

Your rounds are all calculated on your machine and are not subject to internet lag.

with all due respect, i find that impossible to believe.

a bit OT but how does that explain -

guarding cps

im guarding a cp downstairs and im at right angles to the door. ive died 100's of times to an ei comin through the door, turning and killin me before ive had a chance to fire.

kills not registering every 2nd or 3rd mission

one on one gunfights. we both fire, i die the ei doesnt. it happens to many times for it to be luck.

how does what you described explain any of that?

if someone has a high ping and someone has a low ping, it stands to reason that the guy with the high ping is gonna see things a fraction of a second later.

the rounds may be calculated on the client machines but what you actually see still has to travel from both client machines to the server and back again.

now and again when it happens, i see who killed me and go check where they are from. everytime they've been in the states.

Edited July 16, 2010 by jaguar12