Controller Input and the 109

[pav]

The previous 109 thread originally questioning the 109s flight model and then moving toward the new way 1.31 handles controller integration with Windows was closed right as the thread was moving to that much more plausible direction.

Vyper had posted this, and I was interested to hear him elaborate, hopefully with a possible solution:

Question.

Are you guys seeing a super sensitivity in the Y axis only? Like 10-20 more sensitive than it should be?

Because this is what I'm feeling, as I seem to be stalling and blacking out on the slightest elevator controller inputs.

I've moved my dead band a bit, but I don't fully understand the curved line and what changing it does to output. I also was unsuccessful finding any reliable documentation that could give examples of what the changes to the line would actually do or problems it would hope to correct. I've also completely deleted all my configuration files and let the game populate new ones, but with no luck. Any illumination on this would be greatly appreciated.

Edited June 15, 2010 by pav

[Chief]

I just put two missions in on it.

The whole rudder input is farked up. I'd trim and it would pop out of trim to being WAY off. I'd level it out trim it again and then with the slightest input it would again POP (best way to explain it) out again. It almost flings the plane onto its back.

Strange things are a brewing.

Didn't have any problems in the intermission thingie but I didn't fly the E at all either. For me the only issue has been with the 109E4.

[Reyern]

I just put two missions in on it.

The whole rudder input is farked up. I'd trim and it would pop out of trim to being WAY off. I'd level it out trim it again and then with the slightest input it would again POP (best way to explain it) out again. It almost flings the plane onto its back.

Strange things are a brewing.

Didn't have any problems in the intermission thingie but I didn't fly the E at all either. For me the only issue has been with the 109E4.

This is what I am getting as well.

[DOC]

E1 or E4 ?

Also, none of this showed up in the beta ? They are all the same aircraft files as then, absolutely identical. We had no reason to change the ones being used in beta when we packaged the live release.

We're very interested in solving why you are experiencing this but if the data files haven't changed, we can't change them back, you know ?

[osprey39]

E1 or E4 ?

Also, none of this showed up in the beta ? They are all the same aircraft files as then, absolutely identical. We had no reason to change the ones being used in beta when we packaged the live release.

We're very interested in solving why you are experiencing this but if the data files haven't changed, we can't change them back, you know ?

DOC, nobody was flying the E-4 in beta. Everyone was in tier 2 & 3 planes.

edit: come to think of it, I don't think there were even any 109E-4s in the spawn lists.

Edited June 15, 2010 by osprey39

[Vyper]

DOC, what I have been getting is a hyper sensitivity in the Y axis. I haven't reported an issue (yet) because I can't nail it down to repeatable. On top of the new game version, which is a big enough change in of itself, I've also went from XP to win7 32, and replace my old x52pro with a new x52pro. So I have alot of variables to eliminate.

That being said, so far I have not seen any evidence in IL2 or win7 software showing bazaar movement in my stick.

I have noticed that when it happens, if I pull or push the stick the SLIGHTEST amount, the nose of the aircraft will throw itself around like I was yanking to full input range.

It has happened in the P38 (beta and mini camp) 190 (beta and mini camp) and today in the spit 2b.

One thing I did notice is sometimes just closing out ww2ol and re-launching it will correct the issue. Sometimes, like tonight, 3 times with no joy. I can open my saitek software to watch for noise spikes, ect...but nothing. Smooth movement like what I should be expecting thru the entire movement band.

Last piece of the puzzle is at one point my global.calib file had some bazaar numbers in it...not any numbers I put in.

(Example...0x81000001,0.000000,0.936334,0.152600,1.000000)

Which would give no curve at all, but a steep slope. Funny that the in game graphs did not match these numbers. I've since deleted the file completely however it has not solved the Y axis issue, nor has it "corrupted" again.

So thats my 2 cents. Sorry I don't have more to go on at this point, but it seems more people that me have the same issue. I'll post most on it or get more specific when I actually have something.

V

[juuba]

I just put two missions in on it.

The whole rudder input is farked up. I'd trim and it would pop out of trim to being WAY off. I'd level it out trim it again and then with the slightest input it would again POP (best way to explain it) out again. It almost flings the plane onto its back.

Strange things are a brewing.

Didn't have any problems in the intermission thingie but I didn't fly the E at all either. For me the only issue has been with the 109E4.

Two questions:

Do you use rudder trim (maybe the trim keys) to level the "slip" while you fly level?

and:

Do you map the rudder trim on the rudder axis?

Because when you map the rudder trim on the rudder axis/control and then when you're flying level, use (maybe keyboard J/L) keys to trim the yaw axis...

Finally, you use the rudder controls again which in the same instant reset the rudder as you've mapped the trim on the rudder control axis.

The J/L default keys work the same trim system, and using rudder control (if trim mapped the trim in it) over writes that trim you tried to set with them keys.

Can result in weird and funny flight.

[Chief]

E1 or E4 ?

Also, none of this showed up in the beta ? They are all the same aircraft files as then, absolutely identical. We had no reason to change the ones being used in beta when we packaged the live release.

We're very interested in solving why you are experiencing this but if the data files haven't changed, we can't change them back, you know ?

Sorry, I didn't fly beta. These are the first two missions in 109E4. Haven't flown the 109E1 at all. I flew the 109F4 during the intermission and it didn't have any problems so when people were complaining I just figured it was the usual patch fever.

This is unmistakingly wrong. I'll try to replicate tonight. It was very, very odd. Like I said, you could trim it and then with the slightest input from anything it would "POP" and almost flop you over. (not the slats mind you).

[Chief]

Two questions:

Do you use rudder trim (maybe the trim keys) to level the "slip" while you fly level?

and:

Do you map the rudder trim on the rudder axis?

Because when you map the rudder trim on the rudder axis/control and then when you're flying level, use (maybe keyboard J/L) keys to trim the yaw axis...

Finally, you use the rudder controls again which in the same instant reset the rudder as you've mapped the trim on the rudder control axis.

The J/L default keys work the same trim system, and using rudder control (if trim mapped the trim in it) over writes that trim you tried to set with them keys.

Can result in weird and funny flight.

I do use rudder trim. Once I would have expected. I was able to do this 5 or 6 times then just said screw it I'll fly it as is.

I do not have my trim set to my rudder input. That would be stupid and while I'm not beyond doing things that are stupid, I'm innocent on this one.

By the way as I read Vyper's post it reminded me that I should state that I have not changed anything since before this patch. I'm still on XP, still flying with CH stick and X45 throttle.

I've checked to ensure that the sticks are calibrated.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Chief

[oyaji]

DOC mentioned before that the one thing that did change this patch was how the game communicates with Windows regarding input controllers. I reckon that could explain it if that is in fact the deal gone wrong here.

I noticed when I first logged in to the newly-released v1.31 that my Spitfires would roll left. I just unplugged and plugged my X52 back in, re-activated my profile, and I was back in business mid-flight. I don't reboot my computer often, but even so I thought that a problem would show up every time after restart and that the unplug-/plug-in routine would be a constant in this regard, but it isn't: sometimes I need to, others I don't.

I thought maybe my 5-year-old X52 was finally getting tired, but now I wonder. This problem was concurrent with release of v1.31, never saw it before.

Furthermore, as I mentioned in another thread a day or 2 after release of v1.31, the limits of stall felt noticeably different in the Spitfiree 9 during the end of the alternate campaign after v1.31 hit. Something changed in pitch control. Some kind of calib file change/interaction with how the joystick is recognised might explain this too. I don't know how you guys fiddle with the calib files so I don't know what changes to look for there... but something is different, and it can be different every time I restart my computer, but not always is.

Edited June 15, 2010 by oyaji

[juuba]

I do not have my trim set to my rudder input. That would be stupid and while I'm not beyond doing things that are stupid' date=' I'm innocent on this one.[/quote']

When DOC changed the yaw-input to be, well to put in one word: sluggish, people noticed that mapping rudder trim on the same axis made the yaw input perform and feel like it almost was before the yaw stability fix.

I dunno how stupid that is...

OFC, for level bombers I don't map the rudder trim on top of the rudder control so that I still can trim the plane to fly at 0 slip.

Sorry, I didn't fly beta. These are the first two missions in 109E4. Haven't flown the 109E1 at all. I flew the 109F4 during the intermission and it didn't have any problems so when people were complaining I just figured it was the usual patch fever.

This is unmistakingly wrong. I'll try to replicate tonight. It was very, very odd. Like I said, you could trim it and then with the slightest input from anything it would "POP" and almost flop you over. (not the slats mind you).

Oh, well, that is not what I imagined from your first

My rudder trim explanation does not fit here!

Edited June 16, 2010 by juuba