31.1 "Tracer" are almost non-existant *under dark cloud* (bug?)

[frantish]

Flying over active FB *at night* with several nasty bofors (including Squidrd), trying to look for location

I simply could not see the tracers.

I could not see the flash of the Bofors (this is AT NIGHT).

I could not see ANYTHING (ironically I could HEAR the bofors).

The one time I could see the faint tracer and barely a flash (at night mind you) was if shooting at me, then see faint lines.

Question:

Bofors is a 40mm diameter round propelled by very high temperature propellant, and experiencing very high friction as it is forced though the barrel of the cannon.

How visible should that glowing hot ember of metal be?

Technically its not a "tracer" (tracer only visible on the back side, not tip), but simply a very, very hot glowing piece of metal.

Edited June 21, 2010 by frantish
title change

[kamel]

No cannon rounds will glow by any light other than their trace elements.

They are hot, but not red hot.

If they were red hot... they would probably detonate. ;-)

[AHWULF]

You do see the shot puff from the ground and can watch it as it moves - you should be able to see it from the air as well. See if you can take a screenshot on the training server with a buddy firing the bofo and take shots from both points of view.

[frantish]

You do see the shot puff from the ground and can watch it as it moves - you should be able to see it from the air as well. See if you can take a screenshot on the training server with a buddy firing the bofo and take shots from both points of view.

During day time I can see the large smoke puffs (what happened to smokeless gunpowder?) and a tiny flash of red, but at night time (first time I saw in live) the flash effect was even more muted.

I question this becuase I wonder if the muted flash and tracer is intended (may have missed posting about it).

[frantish]

Today I flew combat in heavy AA area, night as well as day, and could see the "tracers"

Not like 1.30, but they where more visible then last time which was under the 880m dark cloud layers.

Is it possible the dark cloud layer is muting the tracer marks?

Is the intensity of the tracer to remain the same regardless of sky?

I ask to make sure this is not an overlooked bug, as we know sometimes happens.

[DOC]

We much prefer the new tracers over the previous version lazzors!

Yes they are much harder to see unless you have the correct angle of view (you are shooting them or they just went by you on the same angle of view as the shooter had) but this is both more realistic and actually makes for better gameplay in that the lazzors! light show of previous versions attracted too much attention from everyone within several km of your position.

If we make them more obvious we just end up back where we were before. I think we'll levave them alone for awhile and see how people get used to them, it may take some time because they were just so obvious before.

There were weeks of open beta to get this sorted and we made a lot of changes to to find this setting. We do not beleive from recent testing that there is any bug related to the tracers presently, and that the issue you have is rooted in them being (deliberately) a lot less obvious to see than before, and that the lighting in the game has completely changed in addition to smoke trail and muzzle effects.

So we reckon give it some more time.

[frantish]

We much prefer the new tracers over the previous version lazzors!

.....

So we reckon give it some more time.

DOC, that is NOT what I am saying.

(clears throat)

FULL LIGHT (NO DARK CLOUDS) I can see the tracers (less then 1.30, but I am not complaining about that).

DARK CLOUDS, LOW LIGHT I can*NOT* see them.

In testing one needs the various conditions, which means what the server decides what conditions to show, so cannot readily observe every combination in a short period of time.

[Vampress]

under low light conditions tracers in R/L are obvious from ANY angle...

there is no angle u can't see them from...except for perhaps straight on like it's going you hit between the eyes(which most people don't ever see in R/L due to saftey issues)

those with good eyes can see bullets in flight without any trace element to them...

It's REALLY 100% obvious from vintage footage and current war footage now that ANY AAA coming up that is loaded with tracer ammo will be 100% visible to the pilots it's fired at...and it's not hunt for waldo hard to see it either

I thought the old tracers were perfectly fine...having seen R/L tracers before it didn't look that bad. I've never seen the heavy calibre tank tracers but I expect they are spectacular and can be seen for a long, long ways. rifle calibre tracers can be seen during daylight hours up to the point they burn out

the LMG tracers seem silly...I can't see them playing as LMG. the smoke looks like hits on the ground(which RUINS using ground hits for spoting range..unless you fire many and look for the shotgun patern which of course only gives away your postion) and they don't actually seem to provide any sort of trace at all...AND they only give away your position with the enemy seeing the trace much better then the LMG does.

Of ALL the things people complained about in 1.30 and ealier versions of the game....I can't recall seeing people complain about the tracers. It was just something you NEVER would see come up on onside chat channel EVER. seems to come up quite a bit now in 1.31 though...

Edited June 21, 2010 by Vampress

[DOC]

the problem with using film of tracers, particularly when the light is poor, to guage what they should look like to the eye, is that tracers on film are much more obvious because it is a film emulsion recording the light from the tracers, than it would be if it was your eye recording them

in low light, the effect is exaggerated somewhat which doesn't help either

the old (v1.30) lazzor lite show happening off in the distance (several km away) when aircraft were dogfighting was very much overdone and nothing like tracers should be represented in the game

is this version perfect ?

heavens no

it is we think an improvement however and no doubt there will be more in the future

[Vampress]

the problem with using film of tracers, particularly when the light is poor, to guage what they should look like to the eye, is that tracers on film are much more obvious because it is a film emulsion recording the light from the tracers, than it would be if it was your eye recording them

in low light, the effect is exaggerated somewhat which doesn't help either

the old (v1.30) lazzor lite show happening off in the distance (several km away) when aircraft were dogfighting was very much overdone and nothing like tracers should be represented in the game

is this version perfect ?

heavens no

it is we think an improvement however and no doubt there will be more in the future

why don't you just go out and actually shoot some WWII vintage tracers off...it's not like they are that expensive.

do it during bright sun, overcast, twilight/early morning, and night time and actually see what they look like...do it as both firer and as observer(from close and also at distance)

probably would even be considered a business expense if you documented it and did it scientifically....doesn't sound that unfun.

[gvonpaul]

We much prefer the new tracers over the previous version lazzors!

Yes they are much harder to see unless you have the correct angle of view (you are shooting them or they just went by you on the same angle of view as the shooter had) but this is both more realistic and actually makes for better gameplay in that the lazzors! light show of previous versions attracted too much attention from everyone within several km of your position.

If we make them more obvious we just end up back where we were before. I think we'll levave them alone for awhile and see how people get used to them, it may take some time because they were just so obvious before.

There were weeks of open beta to get this sorted and we made a lot of changes to to find this setting. We do not beleive from recent testing that there is any bug related to the tracers presently, and that the issue you have is rooted in them being (deliberately) a lot less obvious to see than before, and that the lighting in the game has completely changed in addition to smoke trail and muzzle effects.

So we reckon give it some more time.

I see no tracers whatsoever when I am firing.

[beazil]

why don't you just go out and actually shoot some WWII vintage tracers off...it's not like they are that expensive.

do it during bright sun, overcast, twilight/early morning, and night time and actually see what they look like...do it as both firer and as observer(from close and also at distance)

probably would even be considered a business expense if you documented it and did it scientifically....doesn't sound that unfun.

I'm thinking they may have done exactly that.

But it DOES sound like a hoot! Maybe if they have, and could write it off they could do it again!