[1.31.2.2] Bushes are different on different machines (mac vs pc?) #4386

[lutorm]

Since I use a mac to run my towing account and a pc for my main account, I've noticed that (some) bushes are not in the same place as seen by the two accounts. I'm not talking about the clutter here, I'm talking about the big bushes that are used for concealment.

The screenshots below are an example. I spawned the Spa AB offline on the two machines, went to the exact same spot (by finding the spot where the GPS coords shift in both axes) and took a screenshot. (Both machines used "best quality" settings, so it should not be a matter of different settings, but I thought bushes should be drawn regardless of settings, right?) Note how the two bushes seen by the PC (the large one and the one in front of the house by the tree) are not seen on the Mac, which instead sees one in front of the crates on the right.

I checked in with someone (RAMP?) when the beta was populated before 1.31 released, and they confirmed that everyone should see the bushes in the same place. That does not seem to be the case, which of course also means that bushes are useless for concealment. This might also be the cause for the "no bushes" threads where people are being killed while they think they are hidden, since their killer may not see a bush at your location.

Edit: This seems to be a Mac vs PC issue. I installed BE under Bootcamp on the Mac, and that gives the same view as the PC does. I also installed BE on another Mac, and that gives the Mac view.

PC:

Mac:

Edited July 4, 2010 by lutorm
Added testing of more Mac and PC machines

[ghostrider]

I am getting the bushes in the same spot as your first SS but my bushes are of different shape and proportions...which could also add to people thinking they are concealed, when they are not

[AHWULF]

Does the .2 beta do the same thing?

I'll make sure to point this out on Tuesday. It could be that its not mac vs pc but random to different people and just happens to be coincidence here.

Does it always happen or are there places where the bushes -are- identical in the same places on both platforms?

If you move back and forth slightly does the bush appear/disappear on both platforms?

[lutorm]

Does the .2 beta do the same thing?

I'll make sure to point this out on Tuesday. It could be that its not mac vs pc but random to different people and just happens to be coincidence here.

Does it always happen or are there places where the bushes -are- identical in the same places on both platforms?

If you move back and forth slightly does the bush appear/disappear on both platforms?

Yeah, this is the current beta. It does not seem to be random. Like I said above, I tried it on two macs and they both looked like the Mac screenshot. And two PCs (one being the Mac under bootcamp) looked like the PC screenshot.

The bushes do not disappear, the ones visible are stable as you run around. I just picked a very controlled test to make sure I had the positions right.

Whether some are the same is an interesting question. Just from above, you can tell that the trees and the row of bushes behind the crates on the right look identical. It may be that it's only certain kinds of bushes. I'll try to look in more detail at the different kinds.

[AHWULF]

Most of the bushes are placed statically; a few are randomly placed (but supposed the same for all platforms). Maybe the latter ones are using incompatible random function. I had thought random bushes were all little meaningless ones though.

[kamel]

The large bushes should all be in the same locs... maybe the different clients have a bug in the co-ords that is offsetting the bushes fifty meters or similar?

Suggest those with both machine types find a spot they can look down on the area and take screenies, compare bush patterns.

[lutorm]

Ok, so I walked around some more, here are some further observations.

• The dark, roundish bushes in the images above are different
  
• Berms, and bushes on them, appear the same
  
• Tree lines, and bushes in them, appear the same
  
• The long lines of bushes seem to be the same, except for chance alignments of the single bushes.
  
• Patches of long grass are not in the same place. They seem to be in open fields on PCs, but interspersed with other bushes, berms etc on Macs (maybe this is a hint to which is incorrect?)
  
  
• These lonely, eye-high bright green skinny bushes are different:
  
  
• There is no obvious thing, like just a constant displacement of one set of bushes, that I can see. But that's very hard without getting a bird's eye view.
  

[romzburg]

This explains a lot of why I have been getting killed so often.

I often try to get out away from towns to surveil and report movements, and to find EMS. So I use single bushes and Tall Grass for concealment.

And I'm using a Mac.

So all this time I've been thinking I'm being sneaky, I'm crawling around an empty field, like a n00b.

It also may explain why I see infantry crawling around ion the open farther away, although it is still true that Tall Grass fields do not render at certain distances at which enemy units *do* render. So even if those Tall Grass fields were in the same place as on a PC, it wouldn't matter, because they don't render anyway.

Hmm.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[GOPHUR]

Please retest and let me know if this is fixed 1.31.2.3.

[hchris]

NOT fixed for me in .3

The problem is definately not PC vs MAC. I have 2 accounts spawned, one as Panzer IIIh which sees high grass in front of him, the other is a sapper who doesn't see high grass.

I hade those 2 accounts face each other, exact same location, check results in screenshots.

[Airbored]

Oh this is great, I heard about some people having a cheat or bug that lets them see everything, no bushes etc, like that 1 guy said, "great I been crawling around like a noob all this time in a huge empty field"

[PITTPETE]

wow, just wow:rolleyes:

[romzburg]

I PMed a friendly once that there was an EI 20 feet from him, both of them crawling around. I thought they were both fooled by their own radial clutter, since they were a few hundred meters away me, crawling in an empty field.

He killed the EI, and PMed me back saying he was in tall grass.

I told him from where I was, he was crawling around in an empty field.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[delems]

Interesting, I've killed some ei crawling around in the open to, I wonder if they thought they were in grass or a bush?

Also, yesterday I saw one of our MSP's parked right out in the open, with a bush not too far away. I wondered why he would park an MSP in the open, he prolly saw a bush there, where as I didn't. (I have a mac)

That would explain a lot of my deaths in grass that I think I'm in.

And possibly some of the bush ones.

[romzburg]

Interesting, I've killed some ei crawling around in the open to, I wonder if they thought they were in grass or a bush?

Also, yesterday I saw one of our MSP's parked right out in the open, with a bush not too far away. I wondered why he would park an MSP in the open, he prolly saw a bush there, where as I didn't. (I have a mac)

That would explain a lot of my deaths in grass that I think I'm in.

And possibly some of the bush ones.

I have noticed a LOT of this, where I'm killed when I think I am in concealment.

I started sticking to bushes all in a line, or bushes in the berms, and it has reduced significantly.

Don't trust single bushes, don't trust grass fields.

I think they said the latest beta may have fixed this, but hard to tell without a multi-player beta test.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[GOPHUR]

NOT fixed for me in .3

The problem is definately not PC vs MAC. I have 2 accounts spawned, one as Panzer IIIh which sees high grass in front of him, the other is a sapper who doesn't see high grass.

I hade those 2 accounts face each other, exact same location, check results in screenshots.

Weird. I'm there with 2 accounts and don;t see grass in the road on either. Granted your 2 accounts are not in the same place (in fact quite far) but still, I'd like to replicate this. Will work on this this week.

[GOPHUR]

Those lat longs are coming across weird for me.

[GOPHUR]

What are the sys specs of the machine with the grass in the road. We are unable to replicate on several machines so I may have to build one. Also, can you repeat this bug there? Does it happen on both machines spawning the same unit?

[hchris]

Weird. I'm there with 2 accounts and don;t see grass in the road on either. Granted your 2 accounts are not in the same place (in fact quite far) but still' date=' I'd like to replicate this. Will work on this this week.[/quote']

Gophur there must be some confusion going on.

The units were about 10 meters apart, not farther.

[hchris]

What are the sys specs of the machine with the grass in the road. We are unable to replicate on several machines so I may have to build one. Also' date=' can you repeat this bug there? Does it happen on both machines spawning the same unit?[/quote']

Both accounts were spawned in with this machine below.

Here is my DXdiag, if you need anything else, please let me know.

------------------

System Information

------------------

Time of this report: 5/29/2009, 21:28:58

Operating System: Windows Vista™ Home Premium (6.0, Build 6001) Service Pack 1 (6001.vistasp1_gdr.090302-1506)

System Model: MS-7358

BIOS: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG

Processor: Intel® Core2 Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.40GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.4GHz

Memory: 3326MB RAM

Page File: 1351MB used, 5522MB available

DirectX Version: DirectX 10

DxDiag Version: 6.00.6001.18000 32bit Unicode

---------------

Display Devices

---------------

Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260

Manufacturer: NVIDIA

Chip type: GeForce GTX 260

DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC

Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_05E2&SUBSYS_09A619F1&REV_A1

Display Memory: 2290 MB

Dedicated Memory: 883 MB

Shared Memory: 1407 MB

Current Mode: 1280 x 1024 (32 bit) (60Hz)

Monitor: PnP-Monitor (Standard)

Driver Name: nvd3dum.dll,nvwgf2um.dll

Driver Version: 7.15.0011.7824 (English)

DDI Version: 10

Driver Attributes: Final Retail

Driver Date/Size: 10/7/2008 14:33:00, 5963776 bytes

WHQL Logo'd: Yes

WHQL Date Stamp:

Device Identifier: {D7B71E3E-46A2-11CF-D164-AD2901C2CA35}

Edited July 13, 2010 by hchris

[hchris]

Please get the beta server up so we can do some testing...

[hchris]

Tried to replicate the situation. Started 2 accounts again on one single maching, moved the same units to the same locations as in the first situation, but could not replicate this. Grass not present this time.

Did not adjust any settings or anything.

Is there anything else we can do to test this out?

[romzburg]

I spawned into the live game the other day, ran to a cp to help recap it, and noticed tall grass right next to the cp, and also inside the cp. I got killed. I respawned and went back to them same cp, and no grass was there.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[mcafeed]

My laptop renders absolutely NO bushes or Tress!!

Wierd!

It's a Dell Inspiron 9400 with ATI Mobility Video Card.

[timmy41]

My laptop renders absolutely NO bushes or Tress!!

Wierd!

It's a Dell Inspiron 9400 with ATI Mobility Video Card.

That card only has 256mb of memory, the minimum required to play, so that could be a problem.

oh and

latest drivers? /obligatory