Lag killing is worse than ever

[kroni]

Seriously Close Quarter fighting is now virtually impossible.

It's either some guy shoots you through a wall when you have moved out of the way or you shoot a guy and he has enough time (whilst the system for some reason takes 2 seconds to realise hes dead) to shoot you back.

All of that is now worse then ever, close quarter fighting used to require skill to stay alive, now it's full of aids.

And bunker fighting, guy charges overturned table you shoot at him he gets hit comes around the table shoots you and dies once your corpse is down.

Needs to be fixed really....

[hathcock]

Agree

[romzburg]

It's not "worse than ever", it has definitely been worse.

It's definitely waaaaay worse than last version.

And it's definitely very bad.

It seems there's a trade-off required between warping and lagging.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[Lob12]

yup, its very bad.

[montereau]

Shoot guy.

Guy shoots me back.

I die.

Dude screams and dies.

MFW:

[ZeroAce]

Friends stopped playing the game because of the infantry warping and lag kills.

It's simply not something they'll tolerate on a regular basis if their primary form of fun is infantry based city fights.

I also quit for long periods because of it. I had the sense that what's the point of having all this fancy new stuff if the very basics aren't functioning as they should be.

The fact that warping is gone is one of the best things about 1.31.

Lag kills are stupid as ever though. Aiming skill and speed simply doesn't matter when half the people on the server have this delay shield that gives them the benefit of killing you anyway.

The way Half-Life games work is best. You don't have to lead your targets to account for lag, which is something I absolutely hate in games that have it. But you also don't have high pingers killing people after they should have died. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but whatever they do WW2OL needs to do it.

After 9 years and a staff as small as ever, I don't have much hope we'll see a change.

[belnz]

Its a problem for sure.

The real issue is the way CRS does it is unlike any other game I've ever played.

In those games the client shoots a player which is sent to the server the server then determines that player is dead at that exact moment so any other data from that player is ignored. Main issue with this method is that lag matters a great deal to a persons ability to compete. A 50msec opponent will walk all over a 300ms player.

In WW2OL it seems the client shoots a player and then tells the other players client directly that he is dead but untill those "your dead" packets reach him he is free to shoot back which is the main problem. Biggest pro is that a players lag doesnt have a major impact on their ability to compete.

Pros and cons both methods but like i said, the vast majority of games people are used to playing does not use CRS method.

[hafgan]

Friends stopped playing the game because of the infantry warping and lag kills.

It's simply not something they'll tolerate on a regular basis if their primary form of fun is infantry based city fights.

I also quit for long periods because of it. I had the sense that what's the point of having all this fancy new stuff if the very basics aren't functioning as they should be.

The fact that warping is gone is one of the best things about 1.31.

Lag kills are stupid as ever though. Aiming skill and speed simply doesn't matter when half the people on the server have this delay shield that gives them the benefit of killing you anyway.

The way Half-Life games work is best. You don't have to lead your targets to account for lag, which is something I absolutely hate in games that have it. But you also don't have high pingers killing people after they should have died. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but whatever they do WW2OL needs to do it.

After 9 years and a staff as small as ever, I don't have much hope we'll see a change.

^ This

[hathcock]

Had some nice lag killing with Kroni just now in Peer!

[viperar]

One of the biggest jokes in this game since day 1 really, the I shoot you, you get 5 seconds to shoot me back deal, should have been fixed by now

[berzerkr]

be great if they could bring death delay down some but you can't expect it to completely go away remember people from australia to europe to the americas play together.

[Tigger6]

One of the biggest jokes in this game since day 1 really' date=' the I shoot you, you get 5 seconds to shoot me back deal, should have been fixed by now[/quote']

That is of course wrong assumption. The enemy doesn't actually get to see you until *after* you see him, if it is you that is moving. Therefore he doesn't actually have more time to kill you, for him everything happens a bit later.

I agree, it is annoying, but if you expect it you can live with it.

[zeta]

Lag is what you get when you have players from all over the world playing on the same server.

The server is located in US, Texas. (or was it moved to west coast?)

For example to me the lag (latency, ping) grows as follows:

Helsinki -> Stockholm : 13 ms

Helsinki -> Amsterdam : 41 ms

Helsinki -> East coast : 145 ms

Helsinki -> Server: 165 ms

165 ms is 0,165 seconds

So lets say we have two players from Europe, players A and B. The following I think is quote close to how things work (I don't know the details):

0,0 s: Player A sends the server a message telling that he killed player B

0,2 s: Server receives the message and sends it to player B (and everyone else who is around)

0,4 s: Player B receives the message that he is dead, dies and tells the server he has died

Meanwhile this all is happening, player B of course can kill A on his own screen, and sends a message to the server that A is dead -> about half seconds later of initial contact both A and B are dead.

There is nothing, zero, nada that CRS can do to make the internet go faster.

Normally when you play online shooters the game recommends to you servers that are close to your location. A latency over 30 ms is considered to be too high (for a shooter). Most MMOs (massively multiplayer online games) like BE are role-playing games where latency is not as critical factor as it is in a close combat shooter.

___

Some "fixes" to lag could be:

1) Multiple servers; own server for US, another for Europe and already there is one for China. But splitting our small population to two is hardly an option.

2) Instead of player->server->player (client-server) communication the players could communicate directly with each other (p2p). I don't know if games like that exists, and what kind of problems there would be. For one all packets would have to be replicated to all players that are close by instead of sending them just once to the server. Cheating might be harder to detect when packets are not being monitored by a server. Lost packets, duplicate packets (same message via p2p and via server),... etc. This would be great ground for exploration though, and something that (if implemented right) could be sold onwards to others.

-

Edited July 17, 2010 by zeta

[ZeroAce]

This isn't about lag in general.

It's the way their netcode works that allows people to die after they should be dead.

[mrwinkie]

SIGNED....

Its just stupid lag killy. Almost every inf battle Im in its "I shoot you, you shoot me". Half the time my death animation and his are playing, and the enemy isnt even facing me and weapon is not raised.

[leparc]

If u hate lag kills...Play long range engagements or don't play inf at all. Adapt your play to the conditions you expect

btw Mine is 160-170ms ping and I don't give a **** if I lag kill.

[jaguar12]

Friends stopped playing the game because of the infantry warping and lag kills.

It's simply not something they'll tolerate on a regular basis if their primary form of fun is infantry based city fights.

I also quit for long periods because of it. I had the sense that what's the point of having all this fancy new stuff if the very basics aren't functioning as they should be.

The fact that warping is gone is one of the best things about 1.31.

Lag kills are stupid as ever though. Aiming skill and speed simply doesn't matter when half the people on the server have this delay shield that gives them the benefit of killing you anyway.

The way Half-Life games work is best. You don't have to lead your targets to account for lag, which is something I absolutely hate in games that have it. But you also don't have high pingers killing people after they should have died. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but whatever they do WW2OL needs to do it.

After 9 years and a staff as small as ever, I don't have much hope we'll see a change.

totally agree.

its gotta be the most irritatin thing about BE. i do understand that its just one of those things. you cant have a single worldwide server without some people payin the lag price for it.

it defo wouldnt surprise me is this a contributing factor to why BE still has a very small player base. i personally know of 3 people who have tryed BE but gave up after the trial because of the above reasons.

its only the really hardcore players that stay on and work around these issues.

sure would be great if it could be improved but im not holdin my breath for that to happen.

[Solono]

Lag kills are the main reason I hate inf play. I love being a good hiding spot then being shot by somebody whose shoulder I saw for a split second.

[bronco69]

Seriously Close Quarter fighting is now virtually impossible.

It's either some guy shoots you through a wall when you have moved out of the way or you shoot a guy and he has enough time (whilst the system for some reason takes 2 seconds to realise hes dead) to shoot you back.

All of that is now worse then ever, close quarter fighting used to require skill to stay alive, now it's full of aids.

And bunker fighting, guy charges overturned table you shoot at him he gets hit comes around the table shoots you and dies once your corpse is down.

Needs to be fixed really....

get us an european server ... and lag will be nearly gone then

[leparc]

get us an european server ... and lag will be nearly gone then

Not strictly true....I have played on other mmos European servers with 100+ ping...Sometimes the ping is more than that when I play BE.

[jaguar12]

get us an european server ... and lag will be nearly gone then

thats never gonna happen though. we barely have enough players for 1 server, never mind 2.

[geckopow]

I expect lag due to the game design, but the lag is terrible currently, much worse than before, so i suspect its the netcode that is bugged or the server is running way too much overheads, resulting in a increase in data being sent etc...

1.30 was bearable with lag, 1.31 is really bad and i posted on this in beta too

[conradhays]

Lag is what you get when you have players from all over the world playing on the same server.

The server is located in US, Texas. (or was it moved to west coast?)

For example to me the lag (latency, ping) grows as follows:

Helsinki -> Stockholm : 13 ms

Helsinki -> Amsterdam : 41 ms

Helsinki -> East coast : 145 ms

Helsinki -> Server: 165 ms

165 ms is 0,165 seconds

So lets say we have two players from Europe, players A and B. The following I think is quote close to how things work (I don't know the details):

0,0 s: Player A sends the server a message telling that he killed player B

0,2 s: Server receives the message and sends it to player B (and everyone else who is around)

0,4 s: Player B receives the message that he is dead, dies and tells the server he has died

Meanwhile this all is happening, player B of course can kill A on his own screen, and sends a message to the server that A is dead -> about half seconds later of initial contact both A and B are dead.

There is nothing, zero, nada that CRS can do to make the internet go faster.

Normally when you play online shooters the game recommends to you servers that are close to your location. A latency over 30 ms is considered to be too high (for a shooter). Most MMOs (massively multiplayer online games) like BE are role-playing games where latency is not as critical factor as it is in a close combat shooter.

___

Some "fixes" to lag could be:

1) Multiple servers; own server for US, another for Europe and already there is one for China. But splitting our small population to two is hardly an option.

2) Instead of player->server->player (client-server) communication the players could communicate directly with each other (p2p). I don't know if games like that exists, and what kind of problems there would be. For one all packets would have to be replicated to all players that are close by instead of sending them just once to the server. Cheating might be harder to detect when packets are not being monitored by a server. Lost packets, duplicate packets (same message via p2p and via server),... etc. This would be great ground for exploration though, and something that (if implemented right) could be sold onwards to others.

-

This is an EXCELLENT post! It addresses the problem in an informative way without coming off as whiney and childish. I finished reading this post having learned some things about the problem, what causes it, and how it might be fixed. This is the kind of thing I enjoy reading. Thank you Zeta!

[Lob12]

If u hate lag kills...Play long range engagements or don't play inf at all. Adapt your play to the conditions you expect

btw Mine is 160-170ms ping and I don't give a **** if I lag kill.

Sure, try to cap a CP like that

[Lob12]

This is an EXCELLENT post! It addresses the problem in an informative way without coming off as whiney and childish. I finished reading this post having learned some things about the problem' date=' what causes it, and how it might be fixed. This is the kind of thing I enjoy reading. Thank you Zeta![/quote']

but it will never happen, CRS aint gonna split the server.

Btw I have 60 ms and it happens to me all the time.