Lag killing is worse than ever

[romzburg]

It is so bad.

It makes people play stupid.

You now have to just keep running all the time, everywhere.

You can't play smart, by taking a position to guard something. After you shoot once some lag phag will dance all over you and shoot you and just keep running in circles all over.

Sghey.

I just log off.

Spawn delays, and lag phags, and I log off.

Fix the gheym.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[ottovoncat]

Had a hawk fly by then few secs later his bullets hit me >.

[branko]

In WW2OL it seems the client shoots a player and then tells the other players client directly that he is dead but untill those "your dead" packets reach him he is free to shoot back which is the main problem. Biggest pro is that a players lag doesnt have a major impact on their ability to compete.

I don't think that this is quite true. I believe all comms go through the server, but no processing of those messages occurs.

So:

Player A shoots player B - This sends dead message to server

Server "forwards" the message to the dead player and all players receiving updates about that player (can see him, sort of)

Player B receives dead message and dies - Everyone else receives player B dead message and sees him die (not all at the same instant)

During any of the Player B is free to do what he wants.

As belnz posted, this is better - I believe - than the fastest ping time winning every shootout. To play in that environment, you need local servers that restrict everyone's ping time to within certain levels.

This has always been the case and I don't believe it has gotten any worse in 1.31.

AFAIK: You may see someone die before that person knows he is dead. You may then see the person who killed that player die, after it appeared to you that the first person was already dead. You would have no way of telling - and neither would any machine in the whole chain - who actually shot who first.

This is the crux of the matter. Only to you does it appear that you fired and killed first, to the other player it appears that he did. No one - not even the server - actually knows the answer to that question.

Predictor Code

(can make things worse, but games would be unplayable without it ... All wide-area network games employ predictor code)

This is to do with a players movement, not his bullets. When you look at an avatar, what you see on your client is not what is happening on another player's client. Not until that player's avatar is standing still. What you see is always your client guessing what that player's avatar will do next (until they are still).

Someone above - last page - posted a good write up of what this does.

I'll agree with them that the current implementation needs some tweaking.

This seems to be the major cause of unseen killers (especially corners and CPs).

You can use this to your advantage, once you understand what is happening. And people definately are.

Edited August 1, 2010 by branko

[jaguar12]

so let me get this staight,

Predictor code -

player A is running in a staight line.

player B is linin up a shot

player A changes direction

what happens next, what does player B see on their screen? warping?

it surely cant be cos if it was warping then thats all that we would ever see due to players constantly changing direction.

if it isnt warping then what we see must be the data the server is sending us. and that im afraid to say brings us back to a lag issue.

the person with the higher ping is obviously gonna see what is actually happening later than the person with the lower ping as its taking longer for the data to be sent/received which explains all the weird/frustating goings on.

i guess technology just aint ready for a game like BE. maybe in 10 years, once we all have super duper 100GB/per sec internet connections lag will be somethin we all look back on and laugh about:)

until then, we must endure or unsub.

its no wonder this is such a niche game.

[munchkin]

The biggest problem isn't really lag as I see it. The biggest problem is bad connections with a bit to many packet losses. If the package where the info that you killed someone gets lost, then neither the server or the player you killed will get that info and then just run along like nothing happened, since on their end nothing actually happened.

[romzburg]

This issue has NOTHING to do with PING, nor with Packet Loss.

This is game code.

We did NOT have this problem 1.30 and we do have it now.

It is related to the changes made to reduce warping.

1.30 we had a lot of warping, and now we don't, we have a lot of lag instead.

We either need to figure out what is worst for the game, and live with the other, or figure out a better combo of the two.

But it isn't this.

You can get lucky and kill a warper because you can at least see him, but you can't kill a lag phag who exploits the lag.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[oj]

This is getting pretty old. Seems even worse with 1.31

[branko]

This issue has NOTHING to do with PING, nor with Packet Loss.

This is game code.

We did NOT have this problem 1.30 and we do have it now.

It is related to the changes made to reduce warping.

1.30 we had a lot of warping, and now we don't, we have a lot of lag instead.

We either need to figure out what is worst for the game, and live with the other, or figure out a better combo of the two.

But it isn't this.

You can get lucky and kill a warper because you can at least see him, but you can't kill a lag phag who exploits the lag.

____________________

Yes and No, romz.

The magically appearing inf is probably to do with predictor code ... But we can't be certain. It could be to do with changes in the RAT network/server.

Lag is lag. The causes of lag are many and varied. Predictor code - the published change from 1.30 -> 1.31 - is poentially one of the causes.

What is certain is that the new predictor code has smoothed out 3rd person infantry views. But that must have come at some price, and it appears that price is less immediate position updates.

If that is the cause, then you would hope RATS would look to tweak the predictor code in a future patch. However, I don't want to go back to 1.30 style warping. I would soon live with dying in a depot to Mr Ben than dying to someone zigzagging their way down a corridor towards me.

Happy medium will be the key

And to the person above who said "the interwebs aren't ready for WWIIOL" ... there never will be a world where it is fully-ready.

There will always be a lag between what you do on your machine and what someone sees you do.

A server in Texas will always provide better comms to someone in Texas than to someone in Moscow.

Your client will still have to process info to display a frame, someone else's machine may be faster or slower at doing that.

FPS games will never function 100% accurately over the internet ... And, in a twitch game 100% is where it is at. We will always have a trade-off between wanting to play against as many people as possible - which means from all over the world - and wanting accurate systems to display and calculate what we all do.

[romzburg]

Yes and No, romz.

The magically appearing inf is probably to do with predictor code ... But we can't be certain. It could be to do with changes in the RAT network/server.

Lag is lag. The causes of lag are many and varied. Predictor code - the published change from 1.30 -> 1.31 - is poentially one of the causes.

What is certain is that the new predictor code has smoothed out 3rd person infantry views. But that must have come at some price, and it appears that price is less immediate position updates.

If that is the cause, then you would hope RATS would look to tweak the predictor code in a future patch. However, I don't want to go back to 1.30 style warping. I would soon live with dying in a depot to Mr Ben than dying to someone zigzagging their way down a corridor towards me.

Happy medium will be the key

Can't see anything different from what I said....

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[delems]

I like it more the old way. I believe I will always prefer to see my enemy and have a chance at killing him. Then for him to kill me before I even see him, i.e. no chance. (especially when defending in a CP)

I would much rather see him and have us both die every time, than die by an unseen killer. And, as for dancing around shooting at warping moving guys, fine, if it means I have a chance at killing him.

Again, it is no fun when you can't see your killer, period. Part of it is, a defender should have the advantage when he knows an attacker is coming (hearing footsteps, capture indicator) but the current system favors the attacker.

[jaguar12]

just had another infuriating moment. i rush into a cp and notice 2 ei's in the corner. the cps been blown so i run round behind them and turn the corner to see both of em standin there right next to each other.

i spray my lmg at them, one dies but the other doesnt and after a 2 second burst he turns round and kills me. they were right in the corner of the room and i fired from point blank range so no way i missed.

i got the mission pending bug as well (havent had that in months) so dunno if thats just coincedence.

[twig]

I don't see any CRS replies in this thread. Has there been any official response to this?

Edited August 10, 2010 by twig

[amorosa]

I don't see any CRS replies in this thread. Has there been any official response to this?

These are not the droids you are looking for.