Tall Grass - not in same place - screenshots #4386

[romzburg]

Below screenshots taken 07/24/10 on live server. I had noticed when I respawned in the same place before that it sometimes seemed different, this time when I saw grass in the room, I decided to screenshot and respawn. As you can see, Tall Grass is obviously not in the same place when I respawn.

This explains why out in the fields away from town I have seen EI lying prone in empty fields sometimes, and also why I get killed by ETs that are far away and should never be able to see me. (I think I am in a field of tall grass, they see nothing but me.)

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motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[delems]

Very interesting, I've always wondered about that tall grass. I seem to get shot in there when I feel I should be completely hidden. And as you say, I see people laying out in the open and think it is so funny, maybe they think they are in grass?

[jawk]

Very interesting' date=' I've always wondered about that tall grass. I seem to get shot in there when I feel I should be completely hidden. And as you say, I see people laying out in the open and think it is so funny, maybe they think they are in grass?[/quote']

last day i saw hathcock doing some mumbo jumbo in an open field : down/crouch/down/crouch/down/crouch ect... i smiled and i bofored him like hell.

now i understand he thought he was perfectly hidden, seems not, sorry hath next time it ll be my turn to dance.

[hathcock]

That would explain some things...

[popeye0]

Yes, it defiantly would explain some things. Like not being able to see an ei because you see tall grass and he doesn't then you get shot.

[romzburg]

I took two more screenshots yesterday, should I post them?

Or does it matter to have any more examples?

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[PITTPETE]

Look at one of KFS1's Netter videos--I forget which one.

There is a axis soldier crawling around in the open probably thinking hes in tall grass. With the sky cam there is nothing but open land

[romzburg]

I have another couple screenshots of this.

Can we get this stickied and assigned a bug number, or whatever?

This is a HUGE issue, not some minor bug like a destroyed building having a diagonal texture that looks funny.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[dekard]

if i recall correctly a RAT can clarify this tho, but seeing it in a house doesn't mean anything if you see it there and someone else doesn't it's not supposed to draw 'inside' a house anyhow ever. It's supposed to do a collision check and if there's an object there its not supposed to draw. If you see one out in the open and someone else doesn't then that's a verifiable bug then post those too, but just because you see it in a house and someone else doesn't doesn't meant it's a bug, just means it failed the collision check for the one person.

If that makes sense. Not saying it's not a bug, just that the screenshots above only show it's failed the collision check and drew the grass field there for you on that spawn. All the pics above are pics of 'grass' in buildings that are bugs with the collision detection, not issues with people not seeing grass where they are 'supposed' to see grass, this is the opposite, if you don't see grass inside the building, that's how it's supposed to be the bug is seeing it in the building to begin with.

Now find a pic of grass in one place in an open field and someone else not seeing it and that's what you guys think you have here, but it's not.

Edited August 2, 2010 by dekard

[Sydney]

if i recall correctly a RAT can clarify this tho, but seeing it in a house doesn't mean anything if you see it there and someone else doesn't it's not supposed to draw 'inside' a house anyhow ever. It's supposed to do a collision check and if there's an object there its not supposed to draw. If you see one out in the open and someone else doesn't then that's a verifiable bug then post those too, but just because you see it in a house and someone else doesn't doesn't meant it's a bug, just means it failed the collision check for the one person.

If that makes sense. Not saying it's not a bug, just that the screenshots above only show it's failed the collision check and drew the grass field there for you on that spawn. All the pics above are pics of 'grass' in buildings that are bugs with the collision detection, not issues with people not seeing grass where they are 'supposed' to see grass, this is the opposite, if you don't see grass inside the building, that's how it's supposed to be the bug is seeing it in the building to begin with.

Now find a pic of grass in one place in an open field and someone else not seeing it and that's what you guys think you have here, but it's not.

There is a PC vs Mac thread a couple pages back that show that clearly. One shows this and the other shows that. The poster took several screen shots and illustrated examples from multiple areas.

[PITTPETE]

Haaaa, I was looking for it while u posted..

Seems to be an ongoing issue, but heres the thread

http://forums.battlegroundeurope.com/showthread.php?t=330297

[romzburg]

if i recall correctly a RAT can clarify this tho, but seeing it in a house doesn't mean anything if you see it there and someone else doesn't it's not supposed to draw 'inside' a house anyhow ever. It's supposed to do a collision check and if there's an object there its not supposed to draw. If you see one out in the open and someone else doesn't then that's a verifiable bug then post those too, but just because you see it in a house and someone else doesn't doesn't meant it's a bug, just means it failed the collision check for the one person.

If that makes sense. Not saying it's not a bug, just that the screenshots above only show it's failed the collision check and drew the grass field there for you on that spawn. All the pics above are pics of 'grass' in buildings that are bugs with the collision detection, not issues with people not seeing grass where they are 'supposed' to see grass, this is the opposite, if you don't see grass inside the building, that's how it's supposed to be the bug is seeing it in the building to begin with.

Now find a pic of grass in one place in an open field and someone else not seeing it and that's what you guys think you have here, but it's not.

In every case where I saw it in a building it was also outside that same building.

The Tall Grass fields are MUCH larger than any of these small buildings.

Your point is 100% irrelevant to the issue.

If a tall grass field gets drawn for one player and not for another, the fact that a small portion of it is inside a building is irrelevant.

It is OBVIOUS that the Tall Grass fields are not the same for everyone when you see them going into buildings like this, because the next time you spawn, it is not there, and you have no trouble seeing this difference. So I take a screenshot.

But 1 kilometer outside of town, I may not be in that exact place twice in a short enough period of time that I can say "Hey, last time I was cavorting out on this hillside, I was cavorting in Tall Grass, but this time I am cavorting in an empty field!"

Tall Grass fields are not supposed to be random every time you spawn, that would be stupid.

They are randomly placed by an algorithm ONCE and that position is from then on written in stone. They are not part of the base designed game world, they are added to the game world with the algorithm.

There should NEVER EVER EVER be an instance where you spawn in and there is a Tall Grass field one time, and the next time it is not there.

NEVER.

Whether it is in a building or outside, or 1/10 inside and 9/10 outside is ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT.

The ONLY relevant issue is that THEY ARE NOT CONSISTENT THEREFORE THEY ARE WRONG AND SCREWING UP GAMEPLAY.

And I think we established it was not a Mac/PC issue, didn't we?

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[gtanner]

Your point is 100% irrelevant to the issue.

____________________

I wouldn't say so... if the collission check is failing for building to NOT place it then it is possible that collission check is failing on different platforms/hardware TO place the grass.

[romzburg]

I wouldn't say so... if the collission check is failing for building to NOT place it then it is possible that collission check is failing on different platforms/hardware TO place the grass.

So you're saying that I get extra fields of Tall Grass sometimes because somehow my game client doesn't know there's a building there?

How is that possible?

Furthermore, how does that explain the fact that I (and others) have seen so many examples of players crawling around in the open and when they are PMed, or read in this thread in Hathcock's instance, they say they were in a field of Tall Grass?

No, the reason there are buildings in my screenshots is because that's where I spawn into the game world, and so when I see the grass there, I *know* to take a screen shot because I know it shouldn't be there. And when I respawn, it isn't and I can take shot#2.

Out on a hillside, I have no idea if the grass I see is grass someone else doesn't see, and I have no idea that others see grass where I don't, so you can't very well expect me to take screenshot examples out in the countryside. Think about it. When do I hit F9?! Why?!

The grass and the single bushes are in different places for different people.

It is a problem of the algorithm, not the hard-coded bushlines and tree lines.

And it happens out in the fields as well as in the towns.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[AHWULF]

There is a PC vs Mac thread a couple pages back that show that clearly. One shows this and the other shows that. The poster took several screen shots and illustrated examples from multiple areas.

That was fixed in .4

We do need to see some pix of tall grass in open fields not drawing vs drawing. The ones inside of a building is as Dekard said, a collision bug with the building. Not the same issue at all.

[dekard]

-edited for clarification-

Like I said, two totally separate issues, which to the player I can see would seem exactly the same but if you understand how they are placed in the game world you can see how they are not the same at all.

The tall grass is placed everywhere exactly the same for everyone, the tall grass has a collision box that shoots down a ray collider and if it collides with a building it doesn't allow grass to be drawn there.

In the cases above it's obviously a bug, because some people are seeing grass in the buildings so the ray collision is failing somewhere for those people, but of course it's working for others because they don't have grass in the building but the fact is everyone has grass in this particular instance, it's just working as designed and not showing it because the collider worked and since there was a collision the grass wasn't rendered for the majority of folks.

Now this 'could' be related to grass not drawing elsewhere but it may most likely is totally different issue, the only 'true' way to find out is to see if two people in a field with no buildings around, and one sees grass and the others don't, which you have pics in the other thread.

My point was to simply try and explain how the tall grass was placed, its placed there for everyone it was just since it was in a building all machines shouldn't draw it (because the collision check fails because of the building being there) but on a select few other machines it seems the collision check fails for some reason and drew the grass and the building.

This issue may possibly not related at all to grass in an open field drawing differently to another player.

Try to keep an open mind around everyone's looking for solutions, I'm trying to help out just like you are.

Your point is 100% irrelevant to the issue.

Edited August 3, 2010 by dekard

[romzburg]

Like I said' date=' two totally separate issues, which to the player I can see would seem exactly the same but if you understand how they are placed in the game world you can see how they are not the same at all, the game world shoots down a ray bounding box and if it collides with a building it doesn't allow grass to be drawn in there, in the cases above it's obviously a bug, because some people are seeing grass in the buildings so the ray collision is failing somewhere, but of course it's working for others because they don't have grass in the building (which is how it's designed) this [u']'could' be related to grass not drawing elsewhere but it may possibly not be, the only 'true' way to find out is to see if two people in a field with no buildings around one sees grass and the others don't, which you have pics in the other thread.

My point was to try to explain how the tall grass was placed, it was placed there for everyone it was just since it was in a building all machines shouldn't draw it (because the collider fails because of the building being there, but on a few other machines it seems the collider fails for some reason and drew the grass and the building.

This issue may possibly not related at all to grass in an open field drawing differently to another player. Try to keep an open mind around everyone's looking for solutions, I'm trying to help out just like you are. Just because you feel it's irrelevant doesn't mean it is.

I see now your point.

It is relevant.

It seems a very odd way to do things, and seems like it wouldn't be efficient, and seems an unnecessary waste of resources. And it seems like it has too much potential for bugginess.

I suggest a re-write of 100% of the game code, from the ground up, including higher resolution terrain and an efficient culling system.

Ready, set, GO!

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[romzburg]

That was fixed in .4

We do need to see some pix of tall grass in open fields not drawing vs drawing. The ones inside of a building is as Dekard said, a collision bug with the building. Not the same issue at all.

That's going to be hard to do, because out in the fields there aren't obvious points of reference that make you realize things are weird.

We'll have to be on the lookout for players who are in empty fields and prone, then PM them to see if they have Tall Grass on their computer, assuming they are on our side. If you see an enemy, you can't PM.

Either way, you have to take a screenshot, note the coordinates and direction, respawn, travel back to that spot, and by then I'm exhausted and just want to sit down and have a beer, and I probably forgot what I'm doing in the first place.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[odds]

are you a mac user????

[GOPHUR]

This is ready for test. Can anyone replicate this in 1.32?

[GOPHUR]

Last call for this bug.