plink EA, then no kill bug?

[dkamerad]

yeah I mean, I'm kinda glad it's there. As far as I'm concerned every death should count against you whether you were hit by someone or not. Just kinda threw me for a curve.

[binky]

Agreed, it's one of the better bugs. Other than when you're on the receiving end of the plink, LOL. At least you usually know when you've been plinked and might give away a freebie.

[DOC]

We just ran through some tests in beta (the current v1.32 beta we're dev'ing) and if you plink a plane and it crashes, you get the kill. We haven't migrated this to bailing yet but that is our intention.

I see no reason a plink kill should not exist, if the plane subsequently crashes.

I do see many reasons you might not get it, most likely being you either didn't hit the plane (but thought you did) or someone else did in addition to you, and they got the kill instead.

[dkamerad]

We just ran through some tests in beta (the current v1.32 beta we're dev'ing) and if you plink a plane and it crashes, you get the kill. We haven't migrated this to bailing yet but that is our intention.

I see no reason a plink kill should not exist, if the plane subsequently crashes.

I do see many reasons you might not get it, most likely being you either didn't hit the plane (but thought you did) or someone else did in addition to you, and they got the kill instead.

I suppose this is why... I always figured it was a feature, lol. That rare bug that's good.

[DOC]

Well to be perfectly honest, since no documentation exists by coders who are no longer with us, it might be a feature. My point centered around the following:-

Kills are awarded for weapon kills, not people kills (unless the weapon is infantry or the vehicle weapon attribute killed is crew tied to continued combat operation of the vehicle)

Plink kills were not in the core code because that would mean you could plink a tank with a pistol, do no critical damage (in fact no damage at all) and get a kill when it drove off a bridge and died

Planes are different, plink kills should be possible because they crash easily and often where tanks do not fall out of the sky very often and blow up

Changes have been made over the years, some before any of you even played the game, and those changes were often not documented like we do now

So in truth, an exception would have had to been made for aircraft, which might have been done but it is more LIKELY to be a bug we left in because it works better

Personally with all we have to do, I don't really care which it is right now, plink kills work (if you were the one who last damaged the aircraft before it crashed) and that's exactly how it should be

[binky]

I'd lean the bug direction as well. The plink kill is always scored as a critical damage kill in stats. But there are often times where you can be on the receiving end of a plinking, and subsequently crash without a critical damage being scored against you.

Assuming you're going to write new code for plink kills and bailing, will the old code bug interfere with your intentions?

Edited September 17, 2010 by binky

[oyaji]

and that's exactly how it should be

Sure - if you plink a plane and then pilot freaks out and augers in panic, I can see the cause-and-effect logic. But what about the (all too common) case of a couple planes engaged in combat, one of whom prevails in a hard-won fight but had his paint scratched by his fallen opponent, then for the next 30 minutes goes on to kill other opponents, then clips a tree and explodes... only to find that he has "died" to his first victim, dead already for half an hour! Worse still, his victim "bailed out" and no victory was recorded!

I know you'll probably say "suck less" or some such, but quite a few players would appreciate some sort of a timer on the award of plink kills, such that credit is no longer awarded after, say, 5 minutes have elapsed since the plinking. If it wouldn't be too difficult to include, perhaps you could work something like this into your upcoming "bailing" code.

Edited September 17, 2010 by oyaji

[DOC]

It's not real life, and code cannot understand nor cater for every single possible variation or exception. In some things it has to be more circumspect because there just isn't any feasible path to the more complex range of exceptions and variations one might desire.

ie: sometimes it is what it is and you just have to cope with it being that

[maglight]

if plink kills are bug... then well the other day i was flying with misc got into it with 2 spits... i plink bonifatus and about 2 mins later ai eats him and i got a kill...

[gutted]

Anytime someone gets a plink on me... and then i later ram a plane later in the mission.. that guy who plinked me is awarded a kill.

Never fails.

[khabanos]

alphabetical order? thats all i can come up with given the info there

We tried crashing in different orders as well as rams etc. the result was always the same. But this observation isn't really the point here.

Apparently no one watched the video so I will describe it:

First 2 tests show 150-200 LMG rounds fired into the vertical stabilizer of a Spit 2b causing visible damage in the form of a missing rudder, Schloss then takes off and crashes without awarding a kill.

In the other 2 tests a single shot from a luger is fired into the fuselage area behind the pilot and wing area. The kill credit was awarded both times after crashing.

These tests were conducted with same results multiple times not just 2. I would consider this behaviour a bug regardless of what the intended outcome would be.

[maglight]

Anytime someone gets a plink on me... and then i later ram a plane later in the mission.. that guy who plinked me is awarded a kill.

Never fails.

yah same here

[DOC]

Khbanos

that definitely looks like a bug with critical kill components, since loss of rudder is intepreted that way as far as I know (of the code that is) ... that hypothesis also jives well with a plink giving the kill but something tied to a different attribute (critical kill component) doing something else

it's a place to focus investigation if nothing else, and as such represents one of the better reports we've had recently

[yokilla]

...some sort of a timer on the award of plink kills' date=' such that credit is no longer awarded after, say, 5 minutes have elapsed since the plinking.[/quote']

I may be mistaken, but as far as I understand it my plane can recieve less than critical damage (plink) and still rtb even though that plink damage is severe enough to change my flight envelope. If that is true, then if I don't perform a landing within the new flight envelope I may crash and die on the airfield. A death which would belong to the one or ones who damaged my airframe to such an extent. The game has no code to share kills.

[DOC]

When I say "critical damage" I mean the 1's and 0's environment of code, it only understand that which we tell it is critical and it needs a "switch" to register such things:-

In an aeroplane, that is:-

1.Engine damaged to the point of non operation

2.Pilot killed

3.Fuselage removal (tail section)

4.Wing removed

5.All guns rendered inoperative (almost impossible to achieve by itself)

6.Fuel fire (which isn't critical until it kills the pilot or burns off a wing)

7.Ammo explosion (again, becomes critical because it destroys the aircraft)

Any other damage that may seem "critical" because it makes the plane hard to fly is not what we speak of in GAME terms when we (CRS) say "critical damage" ... in this context we are always referring to the damage that causes a kill to be registered to the shooter when we say "critical" damage.

A plane may score an RTB even with critical damage (which means the shooter gets a kill recorded) ... such as when your engine is out but you can still somehow manage to glide it back to the airfield and make a good landing; the kill does not mean the player shot is killed, it only means that the plane was rendered combat ineffective. War time vehicle kills were kills of the vehicle as a combat weapon not kills on crew, although a pilot kill always killed the aircraft eventually because it would crash.

"Kills" in the game are recorded thus, write it down if you think you'll forget it later:

1. The driver (or pilot) is killed

2. The gunner (not a tail gunner but a tank main gunner for example) is killed

(both the above will render the vehicle combat ineffective ie: a kill)

3. The engine is destroyed

4. The main gun is destroyed (tanks) or ALL guns are destroyed (aircraft)

5. The vehicle is tracked bith sides (tanks)

6. The vehicle has it's wheels removed (only 1 side required)

7. The vehicle has its wheels and tracks damaged (1 side only required) <- half tracked vehicles

8. The vehicle catches fire or blows up (aircraft included)

9. The pilot bails out of his aircraft after receiving any hits at all

10. The infantryman is dead <- infantry kills

In some cases, a vehicle can RTB after a kill is awarded and the player will not get a "death" against him even though the shooter did score a kill from the damage done to his vehicle. A tank with a destroyed main gun is combat ineffective but can still drive back to base. A plane with no engine can still be landed at it's base if you don't have far to glide, or the engine didn't die immediately.

Kills recorded against you do not always mean deaths, although some deaths are naturally going to award a kill, as outlined above. Some deaths do not award kills, tail gunners for example, or tank commanders, and so on.

[Tigger6]

Khbanos

that definitely looks like a bug with critical kill components, since loss of rudder is intepreted that way as far as I know (of the code that is) ... that hypothesis also jives well with a plink giving the kill but something tied to a different attribute (critical kill component) doing something else

it's a place to focus investigation if nothing else, and as such represents one of the better reports we've had recently

The loss of a rudder, elevator, aileron or the whole vertical or horizontal stabilizer has never been critical damage as long as I played. They will very often lead to the airplane crashing and awarding a kill, but if you manage to RTB the airplane, kill will not be awarded.

[DOC]

aircraft are unflyable with the loss of vertical or horizontal stabilizers, and I would be willing to bet will crash in 100% of cases

I have flown them all with their vertical or horizontal stabilizer removed and they are not able to be flown, unless you are 3 feet off the ground and manage a miricle ditch which is not exactly flying in my book

at altitude, you have no hope of controlling the aircraft to a landing with horizontal or vertical stabilizers removed

the rudder or elevator is a different matter, it is merely the control surface not the stabilizer itself (which the control surface is attached to) ... you might make it in without a rudder provided you still have the horizontal stabilizer, I doubt you will without the elevator because you would have no pitch control whatsoever

maybe you could be trimmed really well and somehow squeak it in but it would be a miraclulous bit of piloting

we do not have unlimited ability to tag things as "critical" so we have focussed on those things from which the loss of the vehicle as a combat weapon are unavoidable

[Tigger6]

I have made it home without a vertical stabilizer I think 3 times. Once in a spit and 2 times in a Havoc or Db7. You need to fly very level and rather fast. If you bank more than a tiny little bit, you will lose directional stability and you can't regain it by any means. If you are losing it only a bit, waggling wings sometimes helps regain it. Not sure what it looks like in the spit cause I only saw no vert. stabilizer while despawning, but for the DB7/Havoc there is a tiny little bit of it left, at least in the visuals, so that might help with the stability.

With both horizontal stabs gone you are clearly dead, but you can lose one and it isn't a crit. (In fact yesterday I only found out I lost one after some time)

[khabanos]

The loss of a rudder' date=' elevator, aileron or the whole vertical or horizontal stabilizer has never been critical damage as long as I played. They will very often lead to the airplane crashing and awarding a kill, but if you manage to RTB the airplane, kill will not be awarded.[/quote']

The bug shown here is about losing a rudder, crashing and not awarding a kill.

[DOC]

It awards a kill in code, if it doesn't in CS&R that's probably a bug between the game and the database it reports to, and those are extremely difficult to find.

[schloss1]

basically reason i made this post originally was before one of the updates i was getting plink kills on ea everytime and vice-versa but now no matter how bad i mess up a plane then watch it crash i never get the kill but without fail they plink me & they get the kill.

chzacc was witness to this, i had a fight with him, we both get eachother smokin, he rams me, he xplodes & i flop and crash he gets kill on me, but i dont get it on him(he had no killer at all)