Matilda bug?

[Bacon55]

thanks for the offer - but unless you can teleport one of 3 from Australia...it won't happen. He owns a ranch in the outback with several matildas...

I will post photos from inside the vehicle though...in the drivers seat...

It will be tomorrow...pulling them off the videos I have this evening for posting...hopefully that will clarify things for everyone.

Awesome - looking forward to that.

[Hinfoos]

The 25mm HV gun on the Panhard is more than capable of penetrating the 30mm front armour of any tier 0 panzer at certain ranges.

The 50mm L42 of the PZIIIH should never be able to penetrate the front armour of a Matilda.

but.but..but.. the panhards is so small and got little armorz!!

[fundin]

thanks for the offer - but unless you can teleport one of 3 from Australia...it won't happen. He owns a ranch in the outback with several matildas...

I will post photos from inside the vehicle though...in the drivers seat...

It will be tomorrow...pulling them off the videos I have this evening for posting...hopefully that will clarify things for everyone.

Out of interest do you have a mass library of armour shots or as I imagine (probably quite wrongly) a collection of armour in the backyard of your offices

[duncarin]

Out of interest do you have a mass library of armour shots or as I imagine (probably quite wrongly) a collection of armour in the backyard of your offices

See:

http://forums.battlegroundeurope.com/showthread.php?t=328484

[Scotsman]

Out of interest do you have a mass library of armour shots or as I imagine (probably quite wrongly) a collection of armour in the backyard of your offices

You could say that - AP projectiles are something I collect...

[Scotsman]

There you go - thats whats behind that cast armored block...so no...it's not armored glass...and its certainly substantial in it's own right.You can see the sighting markers in the periscope...

Edited September 19, 2010 by scotsman

[Scotsman]

driving about...one of several he owns...again this is a 1939 CS variant...Vulcan Foundry...

[petie]

The 25mm HV gun on the Panhard is more than capable of penetrating the 30mm front armour of any tier 0 panzer at certain ranges.

The 50mm L42 of the PZIIIH should never be able to penetrate the front armour of a Matilda.

How about penetrating III H frontally aswell as stug g which has definately happened to me.

[frix]

After the 3h got pnzgr 39 ammo, the matty is killable to a shot on turret up to 300-400m.

From side any center shot on turret is better than hull.

The matty has not changed, just better ammo for the 3h gun.

[dawnp]

How about penetrating III H frontally aswell as stug g which has definately happened to me.

Shouldn't happen.

Wanna test it ?

[oo6oo7]

The PaK 38 L/60 should penetrate just fine that close, or at the very least generate spall. As I've read, spall is generated starting at 80%, but I have no way to confirm that. It doesn't appear the KwK 38 L/42 should be able to penetrate at any range, but does this game simulate armor weakness at weld points? Part of the Sherman's historical frailness was due to weld seams along the front glacis. Could firing so close to the plate edges be the cause for apparent over performance of the KwK 38 L/42? Otherwise, it could just be that it's just barely reaching the spall generation thresholds at close range at 0 degrees. Only way to know for sure is for a test and to get one of those nice colorful hitbox rendering screenshots.

[Scotsman]

How about penetrating III H frontally aswell as stug g which has definately happened to me.

Where was the shot?

[Scotsman]

The PaK 38 L/60 should penetrate just fine that close' date=' or at the very least generate spall. As I've read, spall is generated starting at 80%, but I have no way to confirm that. It doesn't appear the KwK 38 L/42 should be able to penetrate at any range, but does this game simulate armor weakness at weld points? Part of the Sherman's historical frailness was due to weld seams along the front glacis. Could firing so close to the plate edges be the cause for apparent over performance of the KwK 38 L/42? Otherwise, it could just be that it's just barely reaching the spall generation thresholds at close range at 0 degrees. Only way to know for sure is for a test and to get one of those nice colorful hitbox rendering screenshots.[/quote']

No it doesn't simulate welds or structural joint weakness on any vehicle. Spall threshold is also a function of projectile and armor thickness...and a uniform threshold is not accurate (but may be the best that can be done minus better armor models). 80% is a little on the low side for my liking...85-90% would be a better fit...especially for lower caliber projectiles...

[elrod]

The PaK 38 L/60 should penetrate just fine that close' date=' or at the very least generate spall. As I've read, spall is generated starting at 80%, but I have no way to confirm that. It doesn't appear the KwK 38 L/42 should be able to penetrate at any range, but does this game simulate armor weakness at weld points? Part of the Sherman's historical frailness was due to weld seams along the front glacis. Could firing so close to the plate edges be the cause for apparent over performance of the KwK 38 L/42? Otherwise, it could just be that it's just barely reaching the spall generation thresholds at close range at 0 degrees. Only way to know for sure is for a test and to get one of those nice colorful hitbox rendering screenshots.[/quote']

As I have been recently skooled the real world doesnt apply. Our damage model can't support it so they do the best they can. What we seem to be debating on just about every issue is IRL vrs in Game. What we should all do is start having the conversation of, "since we can't 100% replicate IRL then whats the give and take done to give us what we have. It will save us all a lot of frustration and give less bait to the forum trolls. The data we all seem to be missing is from the guy who coded the damage model. Without that we are all just turd heads with an opinion who love to speculate. Oh one turd head to another I agree with your comment.

Drucius you've been around a while why you trolling instead of adding to this conversation.

But he's GHC! We should treat him like the grand high poobah he obviously is.

added here instead of another post brother.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Elrod

[drucius]

Drucius you've been around a while why you trolling instead of adding to this conversation.

Wow, ignoring that troll, when did i troll?

[drucius]

your comment.

Drucius you've been around a while why you trolling instead of adding to this conversation.

.

"Okay I get it its your game your correct no room for error. Any example I use is immediately insulted by CRS representatives . So disregard all of my gibberish. I'm obviously ignorant of any knowledge of armor. So as a stupid player that has no knowledge and you as the Master of Arms here what are you going to do????"

Yer man's an eejit, Elrod. If he wants respect, he should wait until he's earned it.

[tiger16]

Come on dru, I thought you were civil this time myself.

On topic shouldn't the pak38 penetrate that spot? Isn't that the Upper hull? If it isn't the upper hull what is it? 47mm @23 degrees right?

Edited September 19, 2010 by tiger16

[Scotsman]

Come on dru, I thought you were civil this time myself.

On topic shouldn't the pak38 penetrate that spot? Isn't that the Upper hull? If it isn't the upper hull what is it? 47mm @23 degrees right?

The question regarded a 3H 50mm L-42 shot....not a 50mm pak-38 shot I believe....

[Bacon55]

How about penetrating III H frontally aswell as stug g which has definately happened to me.

Definitely shouldn't happen.

[Bacon55]

Come on dru, I thought you were civil this time myself.

On topic shouldn't the pak38 penetrate that spot? Isn't that the Upper hull? If it isn't the upper hull what is it? 47mm @23 degrees right?

Negative, it's 75mm. The 47mm plate is the top plate just above the lower hull, the one at 23 degrees...

And yes, at very close range the Pak38 should penetrate. The 50mm L42 firing Pzgr39 should never penetrate, it shouldn't even spall.

[drucius]

47mm @23 degrees right?

That's the glacis.

[kamel]

[DOC]

At 0 degrees obliquety the old 50L42 APHE round would cause spall at 100m, and probably at 250m also, fired at 64mm plate. It might also manage a penetration at 100m (just) in some cases because all rounds have a + or - 5% variation to account for real life variations in muzzle velocity, just because you have a source that says "2247 ft./sec." doesn't mean every round will be doing that, it's an average. All rounds vary in muzzle velocity even if they are the same type of round fired from the same gun one after another.

Since we changed the round in the 50mmL42 to the later type (capped) it will penetrate 75mm at 0 degrees and 100m fairly frequently, will sometimes (and often not) do it at 250m, and will spall without penetration to 500m regularly.

I wouldn't put this down to a bug I'd put it down to a lower expectation of penetration than our data suggests you are doing.