IFP observations

[yokilla]

The IFP allows lmg's from both sides to clip into the IFP partially. The lmg can fire out without exposing himself at all. The IFP will not allow an inf to crawl to the top of the IFP and expose only those parts necessary to fire over the IFP. Instead, the IFP "pops" the inf to the top of the IFP shortly after he begins his climb up the side of the IFP. Crawling to the top of an IFP will often times cause an inf to change states from prone to crouched.

[kc23]

Thought I noticed the same thing, but wasn't sure.

[jonesz]

Had a good time floating all around in the walls.. Takes 1 sec to do, if you place it over a tree you can clip into the tree too.

[GOPHUR]

Need pics. We'ev just rolled this back to the previous version. If there are bugs here we need to catch them. This is headed live fast.

[dertod]

Not only on IFP but on some terrain you can do that , even on top of house, this need to be fixed.

[tater]

Motormouth took some screnies of the "new" ifp used as a shield on a berm. PLace on the side of a berm. You can then shoot from the revers side through the IFP since you see the bottom. You are invulnerable of course (and invisible). Note that in game now, there is sometimes a clipper. The play to take him out is far more annoying than one of these "shields," but it does actually require teamwork. I'm not sure that the odd semi-invulnerable inf (from the front) is really a bad thing.

The smaller footprint of the original version will likely help. You might also need to add some sort of "tilt" test and disallow deployment. It seems to work properly on berms with small rises, not sure how it needs to measure the terrain faces below to avoid problems.

As I said in the other thread, I think the LMG/ATR clipping issues on the first one are a small price to pay, even if they remain. Face it, we suffer from such clipping in a NEGATIVE way all the time (feet stick out of depot or flag, etc, egt shot and die). Having part of the LMGer invulnerable when a hit to any part of him will be fatal only partially improves his survivability. In play, this seemed to result in LMG positions that actually needed to be flanked. This—combined with the FRU spawn/respawn point—provides an incredible opportunity for gameplay in places that are tactically important that don't involve capping. Imagine some of the areas where forests on hilltops overlook ABs. Those are always heavily fought over, and now they could be amazing—the best ww2ol experience ever—with properly emplaced guns and infantry defenders.

I'm excited to see the first IFP—or something just as useful (unlike #2)—in real play. I think it's a game changer (in a very positive way).

Edited October 7, 2010 by tater

[snailtrail]

Could the IFP be fixed by extending the bottom of the IFP so it sticks through the ground so when it is on a slope it wouldn't be floating. When on a flat surface it would go under the ground by a couple of feet but of course we wouldn't see it. It would be kind of like an iceberg where there is a bunch of it under the surface.

[GOPHUR]

Motormouth took some screnies of the "new" ifp used as a shield on a berm. PLace on the side of a berm. You can then shoot from the revers side through the IFP since you see the bottom. You are invulnerable of course (and invisible). Note that in game now, there is sometimes a clipper. The play to take him out is far more annoying than one of these "shields," but it does actually require teamwork. I'm not sure that the odd semi-invulnerable inf (from the front) is really a bad thing.

The smaller footprint of the original version will likely help. You might also need to add some sort of "tilt" test and disallow deployment. It seems to work properly on berms with small rises, not sure how it needs to measure the terrain faces below to avoid problems.

As I said in the other thread, I think the LMG/ATR clipping issues on the first one are a small price to pay, even if they remain. Face it, we suffer from such clipping in a NEGATIVE way all the time (feet stick out of depot or flag, etc, egt shot and die). Having part of the LMGer invulnerable when a hit to any part of him will be fatal only partially improves his survivability. In play, this seemed to result in LMG positions that actually needed to be flanked. This—combined with the FRU spawn/respawn point—provides an incredible opportunity for gameplay in places that are tactically important that don't involve capping. Imagine some of the areas where forests on hilltops overlook ABs. Those are always heavily fought over, and now they could be amazing—the best ww2ol experience ever—with properly emplaced guns and infantry defenders.

I'm excited to see the first IFP—or something just as useful (unlike #2)—in real play. I think it's a game changer (in a very positive way).

Not relevant. The IFP has been changed to a smaller one and it now has a bottom so even if it clips in the air you can;t see through it.

[yokilla]

1.32.0.10 oldzeke and I were able to place IFP on edge of rr tracks. IFP side was in the air. We saw no bottom on IFP and I was able to see through a portion of IFP.

[DOC]

please remark on v1.32.0.11 thx

[yokilla]

1.32.0.11

The IFP now has a bottom. I can no longer see through. I can no longer shoot through.

[fluth]

The IFP allows lmg's from both sides to clip into the IFP partially. The lmg can fire out without exposing himself at all...

Here are some shots illustrating the problem:

I did a simple test last where I took up a natural position within the IFP with a LMG and left a clone. Then, I went down range 100m with a German LMG and attempted to "kill" the clone I left in the IFP. After 3 magazines I still had not killed the clone.

From what I can tell the root cause of the issue is that the LMG deploy animation places the soldier's head substantially to the right of where his 1st person view point is.

[DOC]

We're aware of what it looks like Fluth, thanx!

(we've examined this from every angle possible, believe me)

However, our expectations also include the game engine limitations that indicate to us that there will be a compromise and we have to decide what compromise we will finally implement, because what everyone wants (which is everything working like real life) is not going to be possible.

[GOPHUR]

You can't really trust first person external or clones because they don;t terrainize the way real troopers do online. I'm not sure how much difference it makes in this example (Bloo is testing that stuff) but we are aware of the clipping.

That's why we tried the new object which was pretty unliked.

[GOPHUR]

Oooh, that's nasty. The deploy animation for the LMG makes him swing sideways.

[viper6]

GOPHUR..I still can't wrap my head around the fact that a ML can't make a IFP>> If I'am ML running around on foot, I should be able to make a IFP like everyone else.. Iam afraid a ton of .makeleader is going to take place and a lot of Leader off is going to take place,, once folks figure out that ML is not the thing to be it may change a lot that is useful as the game is??

Is it a game program problem for PPO that an individual can only make one PPO?,, if so I guess we will have to live with it ,, but just seems unfair that a ML once say he makes a FRU can't have the chance to protect himself a little.. lol...

[GOPHUR]

GOPHUR..I still can't wrap my head around the fact that a ML can't make a IFP>> If I'am ML running around on foot, I should be able to make a IFP like everyone else.. Iam afraid a ton of .makeleader is going to take place and a lot of Leader off is going to take place,, once folks figure out that ML is not the thing to be it may change a lot that is useful as the game is??

Is it a game program problem for PPO that an individual can only make one PPO?,, if so I guess we will have to live with it ,, but just seems unfair that a ML once say he makes a FRU can't have the chance to protect himself a little.. lol...

You can only place one. So if you want the ML to have an IFP then no FRU. That simple.

In the future we'll add a mechanism to choose between several and probably add several types.

No time at present.

[viper6]

TKS GOPHUR,, figured that was the reason,,NP,, maybe before live a note somewhere that says only 1 ppo per and save some time answering ,, tks nice work by the way,, tks

[yokilla]

1.32.0.13

Tested LMG, SMG, rifle and pistol for FR and UK with geckopow and obewon. Have pics. Not good at embedding but can attach to email.

Results:

identical for UK, FR

LMG: The LMGs still clip through the IFP but they are centered now. Part of them is visible so they can get hit. Their gun does not create puffs on the top edge of the berm in 3rd person if they are shooting over the top in 1st person.

Pistol: The pistoleer clips through but can get hit. The gun creates puffs on the top of the berm in 3rd even if over the top in 1st.

Rifle: The rifleman clips through but can get hit. The gun creates puffs on the top of the berm in 3rd even if over the top in 1st.

SMG: The smg clips through but can get hit. The smg appears to fire into the air at a near 45 degree angle when firing over the top on the right side of the IFP (as viewed from build perspective). The gun creates puffs on the top of the berm in 3rd even if over the top in 1st when touching the berm but not if back far enough to avoid touching the IFP.

Edit: upon review of pics:

Firing over the left side of the IFP allows the greatest chance to avoid being hit by return fire. If you are careful you can clip and none of you is showing when firing. This pertains to guns which do not deploy.

The LMG when centered in IFP and firing as far right as possible clips over 1/2 his body into the berm on his left. I'm not sure he can get hit from front. And I suspect the left 1/2 of his body can't be hit at all even at point blank range.

Edited October 10, 2010 by yokilla

[GOPHUR]

i had similar findings Yok and we will be adjusting the object next week. BUT did you do your testing in external view or with 2 accounts. External view is pretty crappy for this type of testing as it isn't really the same.

I think we are OK to go live with this object but it does need improvement very quickly. Thoughts?

[mrfancyp]

I think we are OK to go live with this object but it does need improvement very quickly. Thoughts?

From what I've seen deploying a lmg seems to shift the gunner to one side (the left from the perspective of the gunner), so he clips into the left-hand berm. Maybe changing the foxhole so that the position for lmg-deployment (the little cutout at the front) isn't in the middle but placed more to one side could remove that. Changing the form of the berms to a U- or V-shape may also help with this.

Enlarging the cutout may also help. Make it wide enough for two lmgs but place some bushes or gras on the left part of the cutout. This might force lmgs to deploy on the right side of the cutout and will leave their heads exposed to fire even when deployed.

[yokilla]

The puffs give some classes away consistently every shot. The clipping allows firing from behind invisble one-way walls in some instances. Most players won't discover it before yall finish the inf redo. I bet. But if it becomes common knowledge IFPs could be just a buggy new thing to game.

I tested with geckopow and obewon. We were all trying to fire from the lowest we could and still not hit the top.

Edited October 10, 2010 by yokilla

[munchkin]

Considering that all inf using these will clip, and be almost impossible to kill while they can kill you, I don't want these ingame. It's bad as it is already with them clipping in berms.

[viper6]

These pics might help some...first 2 are other version of IFP last pis is what we have now version,, pointing out same problem both versions..

these were on sat the 10/11

NOTE: ei can be killed by running over them in the IFP,, in any positon we found.. also when a friendly runs over you in your IFP , we found that you clip inside for a brief sec then are placed back in the IFP but not in the same position your were in,, IE if looking out the firing slit and friendly vech runs over you, you clip inside a sec then are placed at 2 oc if 12 oc is the slit opening,, strange but not unplayable...

Edited October 10, 2010 by viper6

[snailtrail]

If the inside of the IFP had a texture would it prevent clipping? Similar to how the bottom was put on the GE.

If people can clip their gun through and shoot but can't see anything I have no problem with that. They are firing blind.

Edited October 10, 2010 by snailtrail