1.32.0.10 - No kill awarded when pilot dead but A/C OK.

[Tigger6]

Easiest way to reproduce- park a airplane on the ground, have EI shoot your pilot in head. (Strangely, pistol seems to do no damage)

Despawn, he gets kill credit, you get KIA but "-" as killer.

[DOC]

I have no idea if you actually hit the pilot in the head or not, yes I know you say you did, but I have no evidence trail to track the problem with, for example I just hit my pilots head with less joules than a pistol will impart, and he flat out died, every time. So it must be something else you are reporting, but I don't know what.

PS: pistol that does no damage to pilot head = did not hit pilot head. I don't know why you didn't hit pilot head but if you did, a pistol will kill him.

PPS: tested online beta v1.32.0.11 (Thursday) and pilot died to pistol shot to the head as expected ... the AAR in the UI does not report a killer ("-") but that is a different issue to not dying, which Ramp is working on. It's a reporting the kill issue between clients. Sortie result shows the death and the killer so it should be in CS&R when it goes live even if the UI doesn't report his name to you in the AAR.

[GOPHUR]

But you said a kill was awarded. you mean "Killed by in the AAR reads as a dash"?

[yokilla]

But you said a kill was awarded. you mean "Killed by in the AAR reads as a dash"?

That's what he told me. I was the one pulling the trigger. I'm sorry but I'm not hip on the screenies or I woulda taken some of the bullet holes in the pilot's head. I got a kill credit message and a 109 kill in the AAR but I only got the kill after I shot the pilot with a rifle. I first shot his head with the webly: 6 rounds all in the same spot; and then the french pistol: 2 rounds near the top of the head.

Edited October 8, 2010 by yokilla

[GOPHUR]

Weirdness. i bet the threshold was set at a .303 round for his head.

[DOC]

Canopy open or closed ? Did the pilot give you feedback that his pilot was killed by those shots ?

I tested this yesterday in beta. If the pilot is actually hit in the head with a round (yes, even from a pistol) he dies. Tested Hurricanes, spitfires, 109s and Fw190s. Saw no reason to go through every aircraft since they all have the same pilots, damage wise. In one test, the shooter could swear he hit the pilot but missed 3 times. On the fourth he hit the pilot and the pilot died immediately (head shot) with feedback to me the pilot (beta client) and to him afterwards (release client).

Pistol rounds don't penetrate the same as rifles do, but they do kill pilots when they hit them in the head.

[yokilla]

Canopy was open. I was recieving feedback from the pilot after each shot. He didn't even register joules on all the hits. I didn't miss. I saw a new bullet hole sprite with each shot. The webly shots all overlapped each other. I made sure to aim away from those old holes to be certain I hit him with the french pistol (I really need to look that name up!). Each french shot made it's own separate hole. He registered joules on the minority of hits (twice I think) and the pilot reported that even though he'd been hit for 300 or so joules the health and stamina meters didn't move.

Perhaps when your shooter was 'missing' he wasn't. When your shooter, "could swear he hit the pilot but missed 3 times" did he report seeing bullet holes?

[DOC]

It's easier than that.

Shooter hits pilot, pilot dies (this is what happened in my testing) ... when the same shooter says he shot pilot, but it didn't register as a hit to the pilot, something different happened. He didn't hit the pilot, simply because the previous test the pilot died. The code didn't change between shootings.

I didn't use any feedback to tell me of hits to the pilot other then when the pilot died. I fully accept that visual feedback to the shooter can be faulty.

Due to compromises that would take 100 pages of "why game design is not perfect" to explain, the simplest way to explain this is that what you see is NOT always what you get, never has been, and until sometime around 2525, will probably never be 100% WSISWYG.

As things stand now, with release right on top of us, if the pilot is dying ... it works. If the pilot doesn't die to the same weapon (and it's the same pilot) in one test, but does in another ... we cannot assume (and tear it apart looking) that the pilot is not dying to pistol rounds.

I might also add that given it's a pilot, and a pistol from a ground player, even if it wasn't working it isn't going to stop release at this point in time, as the two will almost never meet in the field of combat in game, and all I am really worried about is if the pilot never dies to the pistol, which thankfully, is not the case here.

Further investigation might (as always) be nice but for v1.32 testing (which is 100% geared to getting a release client ready right now) this is a non issue. Maybe after we are in v1.33 dev., you can bump this, but right now, I'm not going to be concerned because it's just not a viable concern for this release.

[yokilla]

I'm not much of a forum person. I don't bump to bump. I was helping another test something or I wouldn't have run into this. I'm not concerned with pistol v pilot. I don't think this should stop/slow release. I am concerned that this may be evidence of an error with the damage model. If it is a damage model problem and joules play a part then it's possible, however unlikely, that a pilot could be hit with joules of a number that should kill but don't. From any source. Be it pistol or long range freak shrapnel hit or maybe at just the right distance from an explosion.

I fully accept that what you see ain't what you get. However, I've been playing this game a long time and I dont' accept the possibility of 8 misses in a row. Not from me. Not when I wasn't 'under fire'. Not when I was carefully aiming. And definatly not at nearly point blank range. I aimed at (and the game graphics claim I hit) that pilot's head in many many spots (the Webly shots overlapped but were not in exactly the same place). I even changed the shooter's position a bit, especially when I changed from UK to French. Could I have missed with some? Hell yes. But not all. Not without some sort of help from the game (i.e. a bug of somesort).

One test does not duplication make. I'ma check it again later. If the results replicate repeatedly then I'll have something substantial to point out.

Edited October 8, 2010 by yokilla

[DOC]

Well I went through the data again, and it isn't a bug with the damage model. We're patching again soon (today) so wait until then to test. Thanks for testing and reporting, and really don't take anything said here personally ... it is never intended that way; and understand that 3 guys are doing the work of at least a dozen or more in terms of CRS testing stuff. They are also doing other stuff that has nothing to do with testing, so attention is going to be brief and editing/responses brutally blunt.

[yokilla]

I'll check it eventually I'm sure.

[Tigger6]

With any higher caliber weapon it worked, with you and different airplane it worked, it is clearly not critical and we don't even know if it is recurrent since we didn't get to test it a second time. We'll test it later again to see if there is some consistency. Until then it is to be ignored.

[DOC]

The only thing you may still be bothered by is that the pistols are spotty WRT killing the pilot *every time* through the canopy. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, but this is related to the abilities of the pistol to reliably and ACCURATELY penetrate the canopy and hit the pilot afterwards with a killing shot. Everything else does it easy.

Worth a look and will get it but nothing about this is because of the game not functioning as intended with the aircraft or their pilots damage model.

PS: it's the same for all the pistols, not just the British one