Hardware and Software Sound bug

[martinv]

This is a sound issue that has been around for many patches, at least over a year, if not years.

-Software - ONLY the ear that is away from a sound source changes in volume. If a sound source is to your Left, the sound level stays EXACTLY the same volume in your Left ear. Only the right ear sound level varies proportionally to angle away from the source.

If the sound source is to your Right, Only the Left ear volume changes with angle away from the source.

There is also a very noticable instant volume drop in the ear that is turned away from the sound source as you transition across the dead center point. It measures about 6dB.

-Hardware - Again, ONLY the ear that is away from a sound source changes in volume. This setting also does not have the dead center effect making it harder to tell when a sound source is dead ahead.

To do this testing I used a smoke grenade offline and an audio mixer with VU meters calibrated for a mono source, then switched to stereo to measure the sound level differences.

----

What I suspect is that this issue is common to many players of BG Europe. When I had good stereo positiong on my previous pc, I noticed many players struggle with directional accuracy. Now I think I know why. It is very difficult to know what the actual problem is without measuring or at least testing with 1 headphone off, then the other...

With my old computer using onboard sound or a cheap sound card I had great stereo position. I could pick up multiple sounds and be able to guess their locations within a few degrees of accuracy. Now I cannot predict a direction of more than 2 sound sorces with any degree of accuracy without using goofy head motions, and the 6dB volume drop issue explained in the "Software" mode.

Edited November 23, 2010 by martinv

[martinv]

If you think you may also have this bug, please test it as described and post your results here. You don't need vu meters. It's easy enough to hear by taking one headphone off then the other.

Edited November 24, 2010 by martinv

[spOrT]

I've definitely noticed this, especially when you're flying and turn your head, you can hear the world around you as opposed to the noise of the engine...

[martinv]

I should aslo say I have all effects turned OFF. I just want simple stereo sound to work normally. I ordered a sound card, but have my doubts it will help. My old pc onboard sound worked perfectly. No fancy sound card was needed.

[DOC]

Most of this is due to the industry moving ahead and sound options becoming far more varied (and thus complex) than when we began, yet we are kind of stuck with our old engine which doesn't handle the changes that have happened since in as easily a "default" fashion as it used to.

Options available to you:-

Hardware - if you have a later more groovy 5.1 or other advanaced sound set-up this is the one you want to choose

Software - if you have stereo or a plain vanilla style sound set-up that predates 5.1 surround sound this is the choice you need to make

Mis-matching either of these will give you issues we cannot readily solve right now with this game engine.

When we wrote this game engine, the only sound option there was to choose was plain vanilla stereo. The advent of more advanced sound set-up options (like 5.1 surround and yes, the newer ones that are now available) has made our sound issues enormously more complex, and things that used to work well with no effort on behalf of the user are now much less reliable.

We are investigating how we can best change this but have no immediate solution outside of the user selecting the correct option for his hardware and the individual sound configuration of his computer.

[martinv]

When we wrote this game engine, the only sound option there was to choose was plain vanilla stereo.

Thanks for the reply.

I wish it was still that way. Most "effects" "simulated surround" "enhancer" to me sound fake, because they are Fake. They may sound 'neat' for a few seconds, but like staring at a strobe light you start to feel sick after a while.

It's getting to where you to turn a bunch of junk off just to get a normal sound and that's IF if you can find it...

So basically are you saying my computer is probably trying to do something more than plain stereo which is causing these issues I reported?

[membrain]

I don't know if this is related to the OP issue but here is what I have noticed:

In Laffy with engine running, I lose all external audio, i.e no noise from tank next to me when I rev the engine.

In Laffy with engine off, using joystick to rev the throttle I lose all external audio, i.e no noise from tank next to me, until I release the throttle where I regain audio... all still with the engine off.

[GOPHUR]

please post the card and results when you get them. I'll try and replicate the issues.

What is your current sound device?

[martinv]

in case my specs are needed;

I have onboard sound,

Sound Devices

-------------

Description: Speakers (High Definition Audio Device)

Default Sound Playback: Yes

Default Voice Playback: Yes

Hardware ID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0888&SUBSYS_1631E037&REV_1000

Manufacturer ID: 1

Product ID: 100

Type: WDM

Driver Name: HdAudio.sys

Driver Version: 6.00.6002.18005 (English)

Driver Attributes: Final Retail

WHQL Logo'd: n/a

Date and Size: 4/10/2009 23:39:51, 275456 bytes

Other Files:

Driver Provider: Microsoft

HW Accel Level: Basic

Cap Flags: 0x0

Min/Max Sample Rate: 0, 0

Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 0, 0

Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0

HW Memory: 0

Voice Management: No

EAX 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No

I3DL2 Listen/Src: No, No

Sensaura ZoomFX: No

Description: Digital Output Device (SPDIF) (High Definition Audio Device)

Default Sound Playback: No

Default Voice Playback: No

Hardware ID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0888&SUBSYS_1631E037&REV_1000

Manufacturer ID: 1

Product ID: 100

Type: WDM

Driver Name: HdAudio.sys

Driver Version: 6.00.6002.18005 (English)

Driver Attributes: Final Retail

WHQL Logo'd: n/a

Date and Size: 4/10/2009 23:39:51, 275456 bytes

Other Files:

Driver Provider: Microsoft

HW Accel Level: Basic

Cap Flags: 0x0

Min/Max Sample Rate: 0, 0

Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 0, 0

Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0

HW Memory: 0

Voice Management: No

EAX 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No

I3DL2 Listen/Src: No, No

Sensaura ZoomFX: No

---------------------

Sound Capture Devices

---------------------

Description: Microphone (High Definition Audio Device)

Default Sound Capture: Yes

Default Voice Capture: Yes

Driver Name: HdAudio.sys

Driver Version: 6.00.6002.18005 (English)

Driver Attributes: Final Retail

Date and Size: 4/10/2009 23:39:51, 275456 bytes

Cap Flags: 0x0

Format Flags: 0x0

Description: Microphone (High Definition Audio Device)

Default Sound Capture: No

Default Voice Capture: No

Driver Name: HdAudio.sys

Driver Version: 6.00.6002.18005 (English)

Driver Attributes: Final Retail

Date and Size: 4/10/2009 23:39:51, 275456 bytes

Cap Flags: 0x0

Format Flags: 0x0

Description: Line In (High Definition Audio Device)

Default Sound Capture: No

Default Voice Capture: No

Driver Name: HdAudio.sys

Driver Version: 6.00.6002.18005 (English)

Driver Attributes: Final Retail

Date and Size: 4/10/2009 23:39:51, 275456 bytes

Cap Flags: 0x0

Format Flags: 0x0

[martinv]

UPDATE:

I got a new sound card. ASUS XONAR DG.

Results: Basically the same results as in my original post except 1 major thing when I select "Hardware" mode in game:

The sound in the ear away from the sound source is still the only ear that gets quieter but it drops to ZERO volume when 90 degrees away from the sound source. This may sound like it's wrong but it actually feels much more realistic.

I did a quick test online with multiple sounds. This is much better! I can guess sound locations and get a realistic idea of their direction.

Edited December 2, 2010 by martinv

[togosmials]

I got used to using sound a lot in AA2 because so many scenarios were small, rarely more than a dozen person per side, no tanks or planes, in small maps. (Competition was usually 2V2.) But I can't for the life of me recall how "directly behind" was remarkably different from "directly ahead".

But what I figured out here (no sound card; Gigabyte GA-MA785 mobo) by checking with faint sounds when things were quiet (tank at 1.5KM for example) is that directly behind is "fuzzy" whereas directly ahead is as though point source.

So for sounds that have some duration it's easy to be precise. For gunshot though ... was that from 2 o'clock or 4? 1 or 5?

p.s. I worked on psycho-acoustics when FM stereo was being rolled out ... shortly after the earth's crust had cooled ... but can't think of how to simulate 3D position in game. The phasing requirements are sqeaky tight. If we're getting near zero in the ear that's directly away I think that's pretty great. So: congrats CRS!

Edited December 2, 2010 by togosmials

[DOC]

Basically it comes down to this:-

If you make the correct settings choice for your hardware/sofware, the "bionic ears" bug doesn't exist.

If you make the wrong choice (by mistake or on purpose) you might experience this "bug" but you can fix it if you want to by reversing that choice. <- with respect to the actual "I hear a plane on my six when I shouldn't" issue

Up until now, we have had no means to FORCE that choice on you, as it also means detecting reliably what choice should be made in your case (but not another users case) and then forcing the client to adjust accordingly, as an automatic feature.

Players have stated the obvious "There should be NO external noise in an aircraft with it's engine running other than airflow! (and it's own engine noise!)" for years and in fact when the sound works as intended (correct choice for your set-up made by you to match your computer) this is exactly what you hear. I can replicate this correctness all day on one of several computers. I can also break it by simply selecting the wrong set-up in sound preferances.

We are currently working on a means to make this all go away and not be nessesary, but that is going to take some time. In the meantime, correct functionality is a choice you can make, you just have to make it.

[Sethorion]

Basically it comes down to this:-

If you make the correct settings choice for your hardware/sofware, the "bionic ears" bug doesn't exist.

If you make the wrong choice (by mistake or on purpose) you might experience this "bug" but you can fix it if you want to by reversing that choice. <- with respect to the actual "I hear a plane on my six when I shouldn't" issue

Up until now, we have had no means to FORCE that choice on you, as it also means detecting reliably what choice should be made in your case (but not another users case) and then forcing the client to adjust accordingly, as an automatic feature.

We are currently working on a means to make this all go away and not be nessesary, but that is going to take some time.

brb changing my underpants

[martinv]

If you make the correct settings choice for your hardware/sofware, the "bionic ears" bug doesn't exist.

Is hearing an ea while flying at close range a "bionic ear" bug or is that intentional (at close range)? I've never not heard ea at close range as far as I can tell.

I'm also curious what is the correct stereo sound supposed to be? Should one ear increase and the other decrease as you turn you head toward a sound source?

Edited December 5, 2010 by martinv