Kill system and how it works now

[rebel357]

I am seeing lots of guys complain about the kill system and wanted to get a post together on how I "think" its working now.

If you take any damage and ditch your plane the person who damaged you first or the most will get a kill on you.

If you Bail out the same applies.

I am not sure but I think we might have maneuver kills in game now. I would like a RAT to confirm but i wont hold my breath.

Anyone is welcome to add to this or dispute it.

[pusicato]

How do you think a maneuver kill works? I maneuvered myself in to the ground yesterday diving on a low EA and had no killer.

[rebel357]

It probably doesnt work, if it did you woulda had a killer.

[gutted]

If an enemy bails oiut before taking damage, you can shoot his empty plane before it crashes and get awarded the kill.

[rebel357]

yep same if he ditches

[Tigger6]

If you crash/despawn more than 60 seconds after taking damage, you show no killer.

[rebel357]

I doubt that if your hit and you crash. I have to see it in game. Will test with a db

[Slpr]

I doubt that if your hit and you crash. I have to see it in game. Will test with a db

where?

so long slpr

[DOC]

This is sort of a bug report because it deals with what might be thought of as a bug. Kill reporting isn't 100% the way we would like it and we are still improving it as we go.

How it works now:

To kill a vehicle you must prevent it from being an effective combat weapon, the game achieves this via: (a kill will be awarded to the shooter)

1. Critical kill components that you can destroy

i) for tanks, these are engines, gunners, drivers, main guns and tracks (or wheels if an armoured car)

ii) for aircraft, these are engines, pilots, all guns (difficult to do) or removal of a wing or tail/rear fuselage

iii) for trucks, these are engines, drivers or wheels

iv) for boats, these are engines, all main guns (difficult to do) or floatation cells (it will sink)

2. Fires and explosions

i) setting fire to a vehicles fuel tanks will cause the fire to spread and kill all the crew (see above critical kills on crew members)

ii) a vehicle that blows up from an internal ammunition expolsion will turn into a smoking hulk and kill all the crew (see above for critical kills on crew members)

3. Loss of an aircraft because the pilots bails or crash lands

i) if the pilot of an aircraft bails out the aircraft is a total loss and a kill is awarded to the last person who shot and damaged the aircraft

(after 60 seconds without being hit again the "bailed out kill clock" resets and no killer will be awarded, ie: he got away)

ii) if the pilot of an aircraft ditches the aircraft (crash lands it basically) then it is a total loss and a kill is awarded to the last person who shot and damaged the aircraft (after 60 seconds without being hit again the "bailed out kill clock" resets and no killer will be awarded, ie: he got away)

iii) if critical kill damage was awarded and someone subsequently damages the aircraft more, a kill has already been awarded for that aircraft (true for all vehicles actually) and another kill will not be awrded to the next "killer"

4. If the pilot manages to RTB to a friendly airfield even with critical damage then no kill is awarded, the plane is considered salvagable

Kills are only ever awarded once per sortie per vehicle. If someone already scored a kill on a vehicle nobody can score another kill on the same vehicle, even if the damage they did would normally be so awarded.

"Manoeuvre kills" are not possible because the game cannot decide who to award the kill to. We know who to give it to but the game does not. (yet)

[eigenman]

Nice Doc! I think that is pretty much want I want. Includes a ditching kill credit if you plink the plane, a 60 second get away on plinks, and last plink on bailed ac gets kill unless a crit was scored by someone else.

Think that covers it. All we need now is maneuver kills and that can prolly be done simply by scoring the crashed plane kill to the closest enemy within say 200M radius if none of the above already apply. Not that I really care much about this last one, but it does complete the kill scoring. No more diving into the ground to deny a kill credit.

[to]

how does AI play into this?

[gutted]

still some issues with it:

example:

Plane plinks you.. then 10 minutes later you ram something (or crash, or ai shoots you down).. the guy who plinked you will get awarded a kill. Doesn't matter if the plinker is already dead (he shows up as unknown killer in-game, you have to check csr to see who).

[DOC]

Not sure since the recent changes if that is still true. If it is then my advice is not to die crashing into stuff or give your valuable aircraft away to anti-aircraft fire, even if it is for game purposes AI controlled. You're a combat pilot, losing planes is bad for your side. You're supposed to lose the other side their planes.

[gutted]

Haven't had the pleasure of finding out this campaign yet.. but it was defintely there last campaign

[cavalier]

Cool, that covers the "when a kill is awarded" side. Can we get a run down on when a death is awarded (ie is a death awarded every time a kill is?).

[DOC]

No, deaths and kills are not the same thing when you have a kill system that awards kills for the destruction of WEAPONS SYSTEMS (ie: the vehicle that carries them) ... as it was during the actual war we are playing at here.

A pilot of a fighter plane for example, can be killed and that awards a kill because the plane is also destroyed (which is a death to you the player) ... in this case kill and death are the same thing BUT the plane could be destroyed and the pilot still live, awarding no death to the player that was the pilot but a kill awarded to the player that shot the plane down.

I fail to see how the logic of this is difficult to follow. In wartime a kill is the removal of a weapon or a weapons platform from the battle it is currently engaged in. That is the definition you want to use in figuring out what happens in game because that is the one we use in the game, generally speaking. This CAN mean death of a person/crew, but it doesn't mean that death is a requirement it is merely a criteria to be included in the judgement.

KIA (from the victim ie: YOU point of view) = you died as critical crew death awarded

MIA (from the victim ie: YOU point of view) = you lost your equipment but no death awarded to you (you survived as critical crew) Kill might still be awarded to someone who damaged you

Rescued (from the victim ie: YOU point of view) = you lost your equipment but no death awarded to you (you survived as critical crew) Kill might still be awarded to someone who damaged you

RTB (from the victim ie: YOU point of view) = you saved your equipment and no death awarded to you (you survived as critical crew) No kill can be awarded to anyone who damaged you

It's easier if you just undertsand what we are doing here with scoring (using wartime scoring definitions) rather than try to force it to mean what you think it should mean

Kill DOES NOT EQUAL DEATH if the kill award is sourced from the destruction of the weapons platform but the critical crew survived

Kill WILL MEAN DEATH if the death of critical crew is where the source of the kill was awarded from

"critical crew" as outlined earlier are:

drivers

gunners

pilots

no other crew is a critical kill component