FRU - Discussion on timers, distances, rules and ideas

[mynick]

Well i waited 5 minutes to move my FRU up, but before i started placing it - it was killed. Then i had to wait 10 more minutes.

Totall cooldown timer is 15 minutes of waiting as punishment for setting FRU:s.

why did the first 5 minutes go away when it was killed?

CMON 15 MINUTES??? Of gameplay?

Edited December 12, 2010 by mynick

[GOPHUR]

Test 1

• spawn axis inf (1) and allied inf (2)
  
• meet at location
  
• 1 places fru
  
• 2 immediately shoots fru destroying it
  
• 1 waits 10 minutes
  
• 1 places new fru
  
• expected functionality
  

unable to replicate.

[romzburg]

I don't think he's reporting a bug.

I think he is saying it sucks that after waiting the required 5 minutes and then preparing to re-set his FRU closer, it got killed. And so the normal 10 minute timer started, which means in that specific situation a total of 15 minutes was used up.

I think voluntary FRU movements should be unrestricted.

I think the cooldown for a destroyed FRU should be 5 minutes. 10 minutes is way too much.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

jw:

If you're going to argue with Romz, do your homework before you post. He gets it, and you can't teach common sense, you have to be born with it.

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[GOPHUR]

OK I can see that. I'm open to adjusting the timers if they need be but want to wait at least till mid campaign.

[buckshot]

I also vote to eliminate the cooldown timer on FRUs. The FRU has been one of the greatest additions to gameplay by keeping the battle engaging and without delays! The FRU has really made the infantry battles MUCH more fun!! Please set the time delay back to zero!!

[imded]

With an un-restictive timers for the FRU, it only gives the OVERPOP side a massive advantage. My thoughts:

1. move forward timer 3 minutes.
   
2. death replacement timer 6 minutes.
   
3. minimum distance to any enemy flag, including Inf at FB. 400m.
   

[tazz]

Cool-down timers are needed. Without them you end up playing Whack-A-FRU as it bounces between five or six players that keep switching mission leaders and relocating the fru when it is threatened.

[romzburg]

With an un-restictive timers for the FRU, it only gives the OVERPOP side a massive advantage. My thoughts:

1. move forward timer 3 minutes.

2. death replacement timer 6 minutes.

3. minimum distance to any enemy flag, including Inf at FB. 400m.

That sounds good.

I still think voluntary movement of a FRU should be unrestricted.

How about, voluntary movement unrestricted if it has taken no damage.

1 bullet hits it, then it's 3 minutes.

I definitely agree about the distance, too.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

jw:

If you're going to argue with Romz, do your homework before you post. He gets it, and you can't teach common sense, you have to be born with it.

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[fiambre]

What i have noticed is that the cooldown timer starts WHEN you try to set new one... not when the old one is down.

I tried several times: i set fru. it goes down... i wait several minutes but when trying to set fru it says cooling down and timer starts counting. It should start WHEN the old fru is down.

I also miss the cooling down timer on trucks and

a) please put a shorten cooldown timer. 5 mins would be enough to avoid massive spawning but wont ruin your game waiting to set new one.

Trucks should not have any kind of cooldown timer. Yo do nothing else in a truck but drive or risk your life and play for others. They should not be penalized anycase.

S!

[bronco69]

What i have noticed is that the cooldown timer starts WHEN you try to set new one... not when the old one is down.

I tried several times: i set fru. it goes down... i wait several minutes but when trying to set fru it says cooling down and timer starts counting. It should start WHEN the old fru is down.

I also miss the cooling down timer on trucks and

a) please put a shorten cooldown timer. 5 mins would be enough to avoid massive spawning but wont ruin your game waiting to set new one.

Trucks should not have any kind of cooldown timer. Yo do nothing else in a truck but drive or risk your life and play for others. They should not be penalized anycase.

S!

false

when your FRU gets killed ... and you take your shovel out 8mins later ... the green bar will boost to 8min position.. or show the remaining 2mins in your bar

ppl always think the timer will start to count when you get your shovel out for the first time after FRU got killed... but thats wrong

[fiambre]

lol bronco :-) not sure what you aiming as false here. :-)

What im saying is that, at least for me, the cooldown timer seems to start when i get the showel and try to set a new one (in case my previous fru got killed)

And what im sayin gis that the timer should start counting from when the old fru got killed, not when i try to set a new one for first time.

Think that this is what mynick was talking about.

S!

[romzburg]

lol bronco :-) not sure what you aiming as false here. :-)

What im saying is that, at least for me, the cooldown timer seems to start when i get the showel and try to set a new one (in case my previous fru got killed)

And what im sayin gis that the timer should start counting from when the old fru got killed, not when i try to set a new one for first time.

Think that this is what mynick was talking about.

S!

You two are claiming the exact opposite of each other.

You say that when it is destroyed, 8 minutes later you try to set one and the timer appears and starts at *full* 10 minutes and counts down.

He says in that situation that the timer appears and starts at *remaining* 2 minutes and counts down.

So, which is it?

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

jw:

If you're going to argue with Romz, do your homework before you post. He gets it, and you can't teach common sense, you have to be born with it.

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[fiambre]

Im sure about what i say :-) Not sure what bronco says :-D

[clone9cz]

Well i waited 5 minutes to move my FRU up, but before i started placing it - it was killed. Then i had to wait 10 more minutes.

Totall cooldown timer is 15 minutes of waiting as punishment for setting FRU:s.

why did the first 5 minutes go away when it was killed?

CMON 15 MINUTES??? Of gameplay?

OMFG

You are counting apples and pears ! You are bad.

If you die like dweeb at re-deploying FRU, don't wait 10 mins ! Make another mission and bring new FRU by truck witch ZERO COOLDOWN.

DONT BE A SHEEP, USE HEAD !!!

PLS, rename topic from

Re: cooldown timer 15 minutes

to

Re: Two cooldown timer take 15 minutes together

and dont panic other players

[GOPHUR]

I'd like more discussion on this. So sticky.

I really like the MSP on every mission but I also miss trucks being more involved. I'd like it to take more to build one and I'd like then more permanent.

[romzburg]

I think FRUs should work as a ZOC by preventing *enemy* FRUs to be set up within 200 yards.

I think FRUs should not be able to be set up within 400 yards of an enemy facility.

Using these two together, the defense can set up an effective defensive perimeter.

I think destroyed FRUs should have a 5 minute timer before another FRU can be set.

I think *voluntary* movement of a FRU should have no timer.

FRUs, like Depots and FBs need to be considered as a "Representation".

We don't have enough players to actually fight over and control the ground from one town to the next, so FBs and Depots "represent" that real-life situation. It doesn't matter that one side doesn't hold all the ground between the FB and the Depot, the fact that they got the depot is enough.

FRUs need to represent the same thing the Truck-MS did, which is again, ground control between two points. With the truck, noise, size, visibility and movement all made it hard for the truck to infiltrate too much, so they tended to stay out at the periphery, reflecting a ZOC mentality. They would move closer as the battle allowed, again reflecting a ZOC system. Since the FRUs can be set up by a guy who bellycrawled unseen and unheard through bushes, we need to make sure that the FRU has limits placed on it that keep it functioning in a ZOC way.

So perhaps the FRU should have a minimum distance of 800-1000 meters for the first iteration on a mission.

Then, every *voluntary* movement of that FRU for that mission can get 150-200 meters closer.

But if the FRU is destroyed, the new FRU must be set up at the same distance or farther than the destroyed one.

There needs to be a reward for the defenders in finding and killing a FRU, and if the next FRU has a 5 minute delay and must be the same distance or farther, then we can start getting a ZOC game going.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

jw:

If you're going to argue with Romz, do your homework before you post. He gets it, and you can't teach common sense, you have to be born with it.

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[jwilly]

IMO all of the infantry game should evolve toward Groups. FRUs support subsequent group activity, but their creation isn't itself a group activity.

Besides, one man create is another "kinda unrealistic" game element.

I'd like it to take more to build one

One way to accomplish that would be to make FRU build require a second infantryman within proximity, i.e. two man create.

Because two man create would decrease numbers, improve damage tolerance to offset.

Edited January 8, 2011 by jwilly

[elenrod]

FRU BUG: While on a mission, when it switches to a new mission leader, it stops any building Dynamic Gun Emplacement PPO. This is annoying because you have to restart the building process all over again.

I haven't tested to see if it also stops building of the Infantry Fighting Position PPO.

[geckopow]

FRU BUG: While on a mission, when it switches to a new mission leader, it stops any building Dynamic Gun Emplacement PPO. This is annoying because you have to restart the building process all over again.

I haven't tested to see if it also stops building of the Infantry Fighting Position PPO.

^^^ bold it does!

[webco]

Im sure about what i say :-) Not sure what bronco says :-D

This is 100% true. as soon as I place a FRu, I have to go and equip the "shovel" to get the timer going if I don't then the timer does not appear to start. Maybe this is a perception issue and the time has started and the timer bar just does not start updating until you equip "shovel".

So it appears to not start to you requip "shovel" but I have not tested to see if timer bar updates faster if say 5 min go by before I re-equip "shovel"

Webco

[soulucky]

Maybe this is a perception issue and the time has started and the timer bar just does not start updating until you equip "shovel".

This. From my experience the timer is working fine, just the status bar that is only updated when you take out the shovel.

To be clear what i experience is:

1. FRU destroyed, 10 min timer starts.

2. Takes out shovel for the 1st time 8 mins after FRU destroyed (thus 2 mins before being able to build new FRU)

3. The green bar will start from zero and will reach 100% in 2 minutes.

4. new FRU built after 10 mins

So it's more of an issue with the green bar than with the actual timer. The green bar gets the timer value (e.g. 2 mins left) and start updating itself only by the time you take your shovel out for the first time after a new countdown starts. I think this is what bronco was trying to say.

[to]

ok heres my take on the perfect fru system

as i see it most strings needed to make it work are already there.

so i'll throw it out

continue to let both trucks and MLs set an fru

eliminate the fru timer

(heres where i sound like an idiot because i'm not coding the game but here goes)

connect the creation of a fru to a combination of a /friendy facility/,/truck/,/ML/

make the ability to create the fru limited to a very small area around the truck and ML

say 20m?

defenders will almost always find a combo that will allow defensive frus to be built in around the defending town.

offensivly it will allow attacking players the ability to build as many frus as they want and move them ,so long as a truck and ML are together or they capture a depot.

thats it from me unless there are questions

[matamor]

Timers = 5 mins if it gets killed, can be moved after a minute, same with truck.

Distances = 300m minimum - 1.5k maximum

[bigrow]

Any update on this?

The 7 minute timer when FRU gets killed is ok for me.

Voluntary movement timer should be zero. Although a 2-3 minute timer when a change of ML occurs would be good.

Trucks should not have to wait to deploy, even when FRU has been killed.

Max distance from previous FRU of maybe 500m?

I like the minimum distance from enemy FRU idea. As was pointed out to me, we could then decrease the timer when killed dramatically(to 1 or 2 mins) if used with the above suggestions. This is the best way the FRU can be implemented to promote ZOC use that i have heard.

Longer to build but stronger i like too, perhaps alter the timer depending on friendly/enemy presence.