ATG's don't DIE continued (highestlaw)

[imded]

to follow up on what DOC said:

Re: atgs don't die

We know there are oddities with the damage model of the crew on the ATG's (and AAG's)

but they do not actually prevent them being killed rather easily in most cases, thus replacing them is a

low priority until we redo the entire model (planned) to include the new style 3D infantry crews, possibly with animations.

As the vehicle/weapons data guy here this is a high priority with me (redoing the ATG's and AAG's) but from a company perspective we're not there yet, so I too have to wait.

Yes it's annoying that as someone attempting to kill an ATG it kills you when you thought you had it nailed.

Although few will ever accept this the real problem is that you aren't hitting the ATG as effectively as you thought you were.

Don't have an embollism at that reply just yet,

I used to feel that ATG's were too hard to kill as well, it used to make me angry but I did some research and found the answer that made me a much better ATG killer than I used to be.

I spawned an ATG for a minumum of 1 hour every time I logged into the game and went looking for the battle. After 100 or more missions as an ATG my views on their invulnerability had changed 180 degrees. If you are frustrated trying to kill them and think they are too difficult then just spawn in and do 100 ATG missions. See just how hard it is to NOT be killed with nothing to show for it.

After this I changed my approach to ATG's. I know they are easy to kill because I just died 100 times as an ATG and it was a quick death. So the issue was me and how I was expecting to kill them. I went looking for alternatives. I practiced with a friend and I found those alternatives. Now I generally don't lose the fight with an ATG. Sure, they get me sometimes, but usually (as a tanker for example) I will have several ATG kills in my mission AARs.

The only reason I don't give you more detail than this is simple: by going and figuring it out yourself, you will have through that experience improved your gameplay a ton that by not doing that experimenting, you won't have improved at all. I don't want to cheat you out of that and as a matter of fact, neither do you.

__________________

Geof Rey Evans

Producer/CRS

Game Manager/WWIIOL-Battleground Europe

"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh"

"Life sucks sometimes, being miserable NEVER makes it suck less"

What I see here is: A: were you Axis or Allied when you were a ATG?

If you were Allied then that is the norm. Easy to kill.

If you were an Axis PAK, you were much harder to kill.

Case in point: I have encountered as a Tanker, a fight between my tank (all levels of tanks)

and I have hit the PAK multi times with MG and Main gun (AP) rounds, I will typically die and not get the kill on the PAK.

Most of the time I start to shoot the PAK even before he sets up. He is moving and broad side to me.

He turns, deploys, gets off 2 maybe three rounds and I am ded.

I have hit him with AP x5 (minimum) and MG 200+ rounds.

He is still alive and I am not.

So, dont give me I am not hitting him or anything else. This has happened too many times.

Unless, what I am seeing through my optics as a direct hit is not in acctuallity what is happening.

If this is the case, then I am extremely upset. If I can't trust what I see and aiming at, then how can I play effectively?

If the optics is true. Then my only assumption is the PAK kill model is flawed because of CASE IN POINT above.

I will now start to keep some data on it to prove my point.

[DOC]

moved because the testing forum isn't a discussion forum

[Sydney]

I had to copy/paste that in a different color. It's either my eyes or my screen, but had a hard time reading that.

Re: atgs don't die

We know there are oddities with the damage model of the crew on the ATG's (and AAG's)

but they do not actually prevent them being killed rather easily in most cases, thus replacing them is a

low priority until we redo the entire model (planned) to include the new style 3D infantry crews, possibly with animations.

As the vehicle/weapons data guy here this is a high priority with me (redoing the ATG's and AAG's) but from a company perspective we're not there yet, so I too have to wait.

Yes it's annoying that as someone attempting to kill an ATG it kills you when you thought you had it nailed.

Although few will ever accept this the real problem is that you aren't hitting the ATG as effectively as you thought you were.

Don't have an embollism at that reply just yet,

I used to feel that ATG's were too hard to kill as well, it used to make me angry but I did some research and found the answer that made me a much better ATG killer than I used to be.

I spawned an ATG for a minumum of 1 hour every time I logged into the game and went looking for the battle. After 100 or more missions as an ATG my views on their invulnerability had changed 180 degrees. If you are frustrated trying to kill them and think they are too difficult then just spawn in and do 100 ATG missions. See just how hard it is to NOT be killed with nothing to show for it.

After this I changed my approach to ATG's. I know they are easy to kill because I just died 100 times as an ATG and it was a quick death. So the issue was me and how I was expecting to kill them. I went looking for alternatives. I practiced with a friend and I found those alternatives. Now I generally don't lose the fight with an ATG. Sure, they get me sometimes, but usually (as a tanker for example) I will have several ATG kills in my mission AARs.

The only reason I don't give you more detail than this is simple: by going and figuring it out yourself, you will have through that experience improved your gameplay a ton that by not doing that experimenting, you won't have improved at all. I don't want to cheat you out of that and as a matter of fact, neither do you

Geof Rey Evans

Producer/CRS

Game Manager/WWIIOL-Battleground Europe

"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh"

"Life sucks sometimes, being miserable NEVER makes it suck less"

[Sydney]

This isn't a gripe, but rather something that always make me LOL.

When I am pushing my gun, take one plink, it's my pusher that dies.

When I am shooting my gun, take one plink, it's my gunner that dies.

When I am driving my tank, take one shot, it's my driver who gets killed.

When I am gunning my tank, take one shot, it's my gunner who gets killed.

In all of those cases, all of the other crew members lived...all except the ONE that I needed!

[david06]

In my opinion most of the controversy is due to the "death trigger" bug; that's the one where if the gunner is holding down the trigger when he receives damage the gun will continue to fire even while his vision fades and eventually goes black.

This affects gameplay far more than you would think, it's the main reason why when camping a depot you don't set up directly in front of the spawnpoint and also why it's so important to kill an ATG before it deploys. I'm so conscious of this bug now that I will shoot and hit the ATG then immediately attempt to move my vehicle as no matter how much more you hit the enemy gun it will continue to keep firing if that player is holding down the trigger.

[matamor]

In my opinion most of the controversy is due to the "death trigger" bug; that's the one where if the gunner is holding down the trigger when he receives damage the gun will continue to fire even while his vision fades and eventually goes black.

This affects gameplay far more than you would think, it's the main reason why when camping a depot you don't set up directly in front of the spawnpoint and also why it's so important to kill an ATG before it deploys. I'm so conscious of this bug now that I will shoot and hit the ATG then immediately attempt to move my vehicle as no matter how much more you hit the enemy gun it will continue to keep firing if that player is holding down the trigger.

This. That happens against a 57mm yesterday - trig fagged.

[DOC]

I'm moving this back to the testing forum now as a "death trigger bug" report and would appreciate some solid controlled testing. It's not however, a discussion thread per se.

We had ticketed this bug and fixed it previously and now I need info on controlled test results because if it still exists, it is an old bug once fixed and now returned.

We will be in open beta (v1.33) very soon and that would be the perfect time to get this resolved if it is at all possible to do so.

[monsjoex]

DOC when you called the trigger fixed, it wasn't fixed right from the start but it did reduce it with like i duno 90%.

Doesn't really happen that often anymore to be worth the dev time imo.

[HuskerGI]

DOC I will work on the testing also. I will try both sides and all atgs vs. all tanks.

I myself have seen the death trigger occur when I was an atg several times. I was firing fast on a target and the et was firing he at me. I must have killed his mg ablility.

Anyway we were slugging it out and just held the trigger for the fastest firing rate. My screen shook hard and I figured it was over but my atg kept firing. The tank blew and I decided to continue holding it. It continued until auto despawn. I .reported immediatly when I got back in game. I also have seen it with the bofor. I .reported that too.

The atg problem seems a little different. DOC has my statement on that for his records and I wont repeat it.

I will wait for the open testing and then put time into for CRS and all of us.

[imded]

Got killed by a pak 50 and it didnt die.

Hit it multi times with AP in the front with MG too.

I died as usual.

My biatch is that the pak is tough. I used to work in a tank battlion.

An ap round would totally destroy a pak or atg.

Here in this game, it does virtually nothing. Allied side that is.

Edited January 28, 2011 by Spd

[DOC]

Sorry spd but am not interested in "doesn't work on this side" or any of that. Testing, results, well constructed reports that are objective (not subjective) are what we need, otherwise this becomes a complaints forum and that isn't going to get anything fixed faster, easier or with greater efficiency, all of which are things we need and WANT here at CRS.

If it DOEs become complaint orientated over reporting orientated, this will DECREASE the speed and effectiveness of the fixes we at CRS want to make your game better. Follow this lead, it IS important even if you disagree with that response. You have to work with us on this even if the method we employ makes no sense to you.

Anything else will leave you in a worse position than you think you are in now. Trust me I ain't lying.

[mynick]

"Although few will ever accept this the real problem is that you aren't hitting the ATG as effectively as you thought you were. "

I remember placing a sap charge on one of the crewmembers on a 88, and he didnt die.

Edited January 28, 2011 by mynick

[ratatosk]

"Although few will ever accept this the real problem is that you aren't hitting the ATG as effectively as you thought you were. "

I remember placing a sap charge on one of the crewmembers on a 88, and he didnt die.

You can only spread your disgusting fairy dust on ets and buildings, AI won't die either

[fearny]

"Although few will ever accept this the real problem is that you aren't hitting the ATG as effectively as you thought you were. "

I remember placing a sap charge on one of the crewmembers on a 88, and he didnt die.

A Satchel charge isn't the right weapon to be using.

Stick to what DOC asks for guys.

[imded]

Sorry spd but am not interested in "doesn't work on this side" or any of that. Testing, results, well constructed reports that are objective (not subjective) are what we need, otherwise this becomes a complaints forum and that isn't going to get anything fixed faster, easier or with greater efficiency, all of which are things we need and WANT here at CRS.

If it DOEs become complaint orientated over reporting orientated, this will DECREASE the speed and effectiveness of the fixes we at CRS want to make your game better. Follow this lead, it IS important even if you disagree with that response. You have to work with us on this even if the method we employ makes no sense to you.

Anything else will leave you in a worse position than you think you are in now. Trust me I ain't lying.

OK. So outline what the report should look like. An outline for the report.

Then you get what you are looking for.

You may want to STICKY the report outline for all to see and refer too.

Edited January 28, 2011 by Spd