Dear CRS

[thief]

Bionic ears are still here. So it's back to work for you.

Also. Stat system is a mess if you haven't noticed yet.

Thank you for you attention.

[majhavoc]

try not to be so specific next time

[thief]

Ok. My bad.

There's a bug in this game.

Edited March 23, 2011 by thief

[Witzig]

Stat system is a mess. I .reported it to XOOM a couple of days ago. I would like to see a complete audit of the stat system and yes that means how kills are awarded.

[gutted]

Bionic ears are still here.

Depends on what you're flying.

[chiefjr]

Depends on what you're flying.

This x100 - Jester

[DOC]

Actually I just did a mini audit with Ramp and stats are much more accurate than might at first be relalized.

That doesn't mean 100% reliable but it's much higher than most (including myself) would have believed.

What goes awry is generally falling into 2 main categories:

1) Host stamped data that gets recorded and presented through the database queries as "stats" is sometimes missed or dropped by the host as you get transferred from one host to another within the cluster, or or those you interacted with suffer the same fate. The "host" of course is actually a server farm of multiple servers forming several "hosts" and you can only exist on 1 host at a time, even though to make the complexity of Battleground Europe work on all it's many levels you are required to exist on several hosts for different purposes. If the data is not passed off or gets dropped for any reason, the database cannot present that to you later through CS&R.

We are continually working to find bugs in this system and we kill them as we find them.

2) People think they know what a stat represents or how it is calculated and can't make what they see reported jive with this understanding. Not counting snafu's that occur as a result of point 1) above; often the understanding they have of how scoring is calculated is actually incorrect so it will never be able to jive with what they expect even if the data gathering and reporting is 100% correct.

We're not saying it's perfect, but it's actually, as a result of the mini investigation I did this week with Ramp, much more robust than I had thought. I tended to think it was completely borked too, but in fact I was incorrect on a few of the things it is calculating and it's much better at doing it's job than I would have reported before we took a look at it.

That being said, we're going to completely tear it apart and rewrite it all sometime this year. Big job, but a good chance to change how some of it works and fix some things that definately don't work as intended.

If you experience "bionic ears" you're going to have to be really specific because we cannot find an instance of this since the new sound engine went in with v1.33 ... maybe you're hearing something you think you should not but is actually functioning correctly, many people have different opinions what is and what should not be.

ie: you'll have to be specific before we can make any valid comment

name your specific example, with eviodence we can investigate, and we'll be able to comment and perhaps even fix it in those cases where the cause is found

eg: we pulled all of Thiefs (the original poster) sortie data and CS&R is reporting exactly what that data says it should be reporting, not including data he may have thought was recorded but actually wasn't, of which we have no record. This should not be a very high number of incidences, but if it wasn't reported is also completely unable to be tracked/checked unless a seperate record exists that we can compare it with, which we don't have and the host is unable to produce (ie: it would have to be recorded by the user as it happens)

further eg: Top 100 K/D reports K/D as the result of all kills of a given (specific) persona (say, pilot in one country in this case) divided by all deaths while playing that persona. Deaths does include critical kill hits that the pilot survived but his aircraft did not, even though no death was recorded in the sortie AAR in the UI. This is actually incorrect functionality (not what we intended) but is how CS&R works.

However, Top 100 Fighter Pilot filters this data to only incluse kills made on other fighters and fighter bombers (which are fighters after they drop their bombs) and deaths suffered from other fighters and fighter bombers. So K/D reported in that section of CS&R (Top 100 Figher Pilots) can differ from K/D reported in the Top 100 by pure K/D alone, since the data is being filtered to not include the exact same data.

This often explains why people think it's wrong when it is not. That notwithstanding, sometimes the HOST does not write data out to the database that it is supposed to, and we work all the time to find and eradicate why that happens. After a sortie sample of 50 consequetive sorties made to determine the frequency of this happening, not a single instance occured.

So we're not saying it never happens, but it doesn't happen very often. If we can eradicate any errors we certainly will, but we haven't got there yet.

[SNIPER62]

good post DOC, thnx

That being said' date=' we're going to completely tear it apart and rewrite it all sometime this year. Big job, but a good chance to change how some of it works and fix some things that definately don't work as intended.[/quote']

would we be able to get added in the sorties page somthing that has "Factories Hit: #" so we could have some sort of "Top FBR bombers" either on CSR or else where?

[ramse888]

Actually I just did a mini audit with Ramp and stats are much more accurate than might at first be relalized.

That doesn't mean 100% reliable but it's much higher than most (including myself) would have believed.

What goes awry is generally falling into 2 main categories:

1) Host stamped data that gets recorded and presented through the database queries as "stats" is sometimes missed or dropped by the host as you get transferred from one host to another within the cluster, or or those you interacted with suffer the same fate. The "host" of course is actually a server farm of multiple servers forming several "hosts" and you can only exist on 1 host at a time, even though to make the complexity of Battleground Europe work on all it's many levels you are required to exist on several hosts for different purposes. If the data is not passed off or gets dropped for any reason, the database cannot present that to you later through CS&R.

We are continually working to find bugs in this system and we kill them as we find them.

2) People think they know what a stat represents or how it is calculated and can't make what they see reported jive with this understanding. Not counting snafu's that occur as a result of point 1) above; often the understanding they have of how scoring is calculated is actually incorrect so it will never be able to jive with what they expect even if the data gathering and reporting is 100% correct.

We're not saying it's perfect, but it's actually, as a result of the mini investigation I did this week with Ramp, much more robust than I had thought. I tended to think it was completely borked too, but in fact I was incorrect on a few of the things it is calculating and it's much better at doing it's job than I would have reported before we took a look at it.

That being said, we're going to completely tear it apart and rewrite it all sometime this year. Big job, but a good chance to change how some of it works and fix some things that definately don't work as intended.

If you experience "bionic ears" you're going to have to be really specific because we cannot find an instance of this since the new sound engine went in with v1.33 ... maybe you're hearing something you think you should not but is actually functioning correctly, many people have different opinions what is and what should not be.

ie: you'll have to be specific before we can make any valid comment

name your specific example, with eviodence we can investigate, and we'll be able to comment and perhaps even fix it in those cases where the cause is found

eg: we pulled all of Thiefs (the original poster) sortie data and CS&R is reporting exactly what that data says it should be reporting, not including data he may have thought was recorded but actually wasn't, of which we have no record. This should not be a very high number of incidences, but if it wasn't reported is also completely unable to be tracked/checked unless a seperate record exists that we can compare it with, which we don't have and the host is unable to produce (ie: it would have to be recorded by the user as it happens)

Hearing planes outside your own aircraft while your own engine is on at ranges 500-1000meters. You can look left and right and hear planes at certain sound settings. But i think sound beyond 1000 meters is gone, can someone confirm?

[DOC]

Are you sure ? Do you have controlled testing that proves your perceptions are correct ? Can we see those results ?

See, the issue we have is that we cannot replicate what you say you are hearing. We'd like to, because otherwise we'll be at odds with you, but it just isn't happening here so without your help we can't do anything about it at all quickly.

We aren't saying you're lying, we're saying that just saying it isn't helping us to fix whatever the issue is.

[teetwo]

Squadron data would be nice as well.

[DOC]

This isn't a "what we'd like in the future" thread, putting that stuff in here will make fixing any current issues harder, and you don't want that to be the case.

Put that stuff in the "suggestions for new scoring" thread that will accompany the actual work of rewriting scoring, which we are not undertaking immediately.

[angriff]

It is not the same as it used to be but I will give you a hint. Actual direction of the 109 is no longer possible to determine but for those that are not tone deaf then they can detect a 109 while searching and determine proximity to your area.

Edited March 24, 2011 by angriff

[DOC]

I edited out the completely pointless and personal rant portion of your response because it was a poor working example of how to go about this stuff.

Your hint while trying to help, really doesn't. Like for example, are you saying if I was in an non-109 I could hear a 109 XXX meters away from me with my engine running ?

How far is XXX ? Is this from any direction ? Or is that a specific part of the replication method ? Does altitiude factor into this at all ? (it's all about covering relative directional aspects not all of which may be identical in behaviour) Hey if I experienced in testing/evaluation what you're talking about, I wouldn't be asking you how you get it. Your hardware/software and settings is important too.

Keep it to controlled test functions. Otherwise it's just more rant. Rant doesn't fix anything. We like to fix stuff for you but you gotta go along with what that takes.

[Solono]

I'll add something that may, or may not, be useful:

Whenever I look toward the right wing in a Spit V or IX (I think the II as well but not sure), something strange happens with the sound, I still hear the engine but I get a faint background sound that sounds very faintly like a 109 engine.

If I look left, straight or any other direction but right and the sound will not be present, it also does not occur regularly but occasionally . Uncertain if it is a bit of creeping bionic ears or just sound strangeness on my end.

[mdundee]

I've been getting very large differences in sound volume and type when I move my head in a truck and plane. I'll post stats on my gear tonight.

[SNIPER62]

This isn't a "what we'd like in the future" thread, putting that stuff in here will make fixing any current issues harder, and you don't want that to be the case.

Put that stuff in the "suggestions for new scoring" thread that will accompany the actual work of rewriting scoring, which we are not undertaking immediately.

good point, new thread made http://forums.battlegroundeurope.com/showthread.php?t=358232

[romzburg]

In real life in the war when a pilot was flying didn't he wear headphones for radio comms?

And when wearing those headphones which would dampen external noise, coupled with the volume of his own engine(s) just a few feet away from his ears, what would/could that pilot realistically hear, aside from his own engine?

I have no idea what the answers are here, I'm not doing a socratic thing. I'm completely ignorant of this stuff.

But I'm thinking that when a plane's engine is on, the game should *not* be sending sound cues to that player, except for bullet hits on the plane (for gameplay reasons even if not always realistic), and AA explosions, and bombs.

Instead of being process oriented and making the game's sound engine do all this stuff, just be results oriented and say "Ok, you can't hear hardly anything, you are sitting next to a screaming engine with earmuffs on."

And also apply all that to tanks when buttoned up. Don't let them hear footsteps. That's crazy.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

jw:

If you're going to argue with Romz, do your homework before you post. He gets it, and you can't teach common sense, you have to be born with it.

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[nrwo]

In real life in the war when a pilot was flying didn't he wear headphones for radio comms?

And when wearing those headphones which would dampen external noise, coupled with the volume of his own engine(s) just a few feet away from his ears, what would/could that pilot realistically hear, aside from his own engine?

I have no idea what the answers are here, I'm not doing a socratic thing. I'm completely ignorant of this stuff.

But I'm thinking that when a plane's engine is on, the game should *not* be sending sound cues to that player, except for bullet hits on the plane (for gameplay reasons even if not always realistic), and AA explosions, and bombs.

Instead of being process oriented and making the game's sound engine do all this stuff, just be results oriented and say "Ok, you can't hear hardly anything, you are sitting next to a screaming engine with earmuffs on."

And also apply all that to tanks when buttoned up. Don't let them hear footsteps. That's crazy.

____________________

Talk about ego being stroked.

You got stroked and then got about 4 blow jobs.

[speed]

tank crew also had headsets to comm each other.Couldnt hear a monkey crackjacking beside them.......go figure....

[dabar0n]

I know one of my squadmates still has bionic ears DOC. He is going to get some info together for you. It is ridiculous what he can still hear. About the same time they go grey circle he was telling us what it was just by the sound.

[DOC]

Well some genuine information would be very useful. Gophur and I both make no bones about it, when we are flying, we never hear an aircraft bouncing us. I flew 50 straight sorties on the live server to test some scoring related stuff and I hear my engine, my guns, maybe another plane if it's right next to me (and I know that what people would say is that I shouldn't hear that either, but I can't "turn that off for planes" so that's just the way it is right now, and I mean right next to me so if I was being bounced I'd already be hit before I heard them) ... but I find no evidence of "bionic ears that allow me to hear myself being bounced" and I ask you, why would I lie about this ?

So obviously some people claim they have a different experience, and since I cannot have their experience, or react to what I cannot experience myself when testing ... they either help with good solid stuff to look for or at, or they don't.

It's that simple.

No one should ever take an explanation such as this as a reason to think we aren't interested in the subject or anything negative on the basis that I am just clarifying the situation. So they can maybe help us a little. It's not a crime.

[gutted]

I haven't checked every single plane, but this is my experience from Spit vs. 109 testing:

In the 109, i cant hear spits at all anymore no matter which way i look. But in the spit, Looking directly left or right in i can hear 109s approaching.

The spits engine in 1st person is quite abit lower in volume than the 109 on my system.

Edited March 24, 2011 by gutted

[Witzig]

I haven't checked every single plane, but this is my experience from Spit vs. 109 testing:

In the 109, i cant hear spits at all anymore no matter which way i look. But in the spit, Looking directly left or right in i can hear 109s approaching.

The spits engine in 1st person is quite abit lower in volume than the 109 on my system.

So a solution would be to make sure the base sound for all aircraft are the same. Is there a place in the game files where we can check what (if) there is a base engine noise for aircraft?

Edited March 24, 2011 by Baer

[nkelly]

Well some genuine information would be very useful. Gophur and I both make no bones about it, when we are flying, we never hear an aircraft bouncing us. I flew 50 straight sorties on the live server to test some scoring related stuff and I hear my engine, my guns, maybe another plane if it's right next to me (and I know that what people would say is that I shouldn't hear that either, but I can't "turn that off for planes" so that's just the way it is right now, and I mean right next to me so if I was being bounced I'd already be hit before I heard them) ... but I find no evidence of "bionic ears that allow me to hear myself being bounced" and I ask you, why would I lie about this ?

So obviously some people claim they have a different experience, and since I cannot have their experience, or react to what I cannot experience myself when testing ... they either help with good solid stuff to look for or at, or they don't.

It's that simple.

No one should ever take an explanation such as this as a reason to think we aren't interested in the subject or anything negative on the basis that I am just clarifying the situation. So they can maybe help us a little. It's not a crime.

Im same as you DOC,deaf as a **** beetle,i only hear em when their 50 mts or closer.

P38 and the hawks are the same

Many maps ago,i had excellent bionic ears in the spitfire,i could hear a 109 far enough so too avoid his bounce,but thats the only plane.