damage/kill model; inf vs. WTF

[jizzz]

Can someone please explain the $hittily-hosed damage model for the Bedford vs. German infantry rifle/sniper rounds?

I was a German sniper & came to a Bedford that had just parked. 5 rounds through the left passenger window into the HEAD of the Bedford driver at point blank range & it only gave me a damage & NO KILL. No one else had hit him to get a kill credit before, I found him first, I killed him first, but....nada zip ziltch........seriously? I made him despawn & that helped for our defense of the city, BUT, overall a KIA takes it out of their supply. He was close enough to their spawnable that he got to RTB instead, which means he could just respawn & go off in another direction. So you see, this isn't just some minor piss & moan complaint, this has both gameplay & Campaign ramifications.

Seriously, if realism is the goal as is always touted, then, um, yeah, simple formula here: Multiple rifle rounds + fired into the head + at point blank range = Kill. Pretty simple, pretty basic. This & the infantry vs. ATG/AAA damage/kill models have been in need of attention for awhile now.

[vonbreur]

Indeed, the transport truck damage models... Ack Ack damage models... ATG damage models... all need a serious review.

I opened up on a Bofors crew with an LMG and nothing happened. From 100m's... seeing all my shots hit its two crew members... it merely wheeled around and blasted me. This happened twice on two separate nights.

Realism is not this game's forte... gotta remember that... 'cause they've gone so far as to nerf certain units to placate the whiners of yesteryear.

[panzer5]

I wish to give NO support of the current damage model but I may be able to offer some light on why you only got damage.

I was in a 3F and was under 50m from an ATG. It had just spawned in a depot that I was watching and I was the only one to fire at it. I opened up with my turret and hull mgs and of course I thought it best to avoid the gun shield and instead fire at their exposed heads. Hundreds of rounds went through ther heads. The ATG killed most of my crew but the hull gunner kept firing 'til it despawned. My AAR? Damaged ATG...not kill. HUH?

After some forum searching and Training server testing it was determined that what you see is NOT what you want to shoot at. Infantry head and necks are actaully triangles with point of the triangle at the top. The avatar's "face" is not the actual part you want to damage...it's the invisible triangle or, the "hit box" and the top of the head is actually a triangle point...very hard to hit.

So how do you take you infantry or drivers? Aim for the chest! If not...at least aim for the neck where the triangle "hit box" may be a bit wider.

Now if CRS will return to their damage model, crica 3/13/2011, where a grenade will actually do damage through 10mm of armor, I'd be a happy camper.

P5

Edited April 3, 2011 by panzer5

[dertod]

Last night, i shot laffly 5 time in head of driver with sniper and few sec later he spawn fru ...wow , the ei spawned and killed me.

[Voodoo1]

I been getting similar experiences, but im allied.

[mrfancyp]

Why would you shoot 5 times at the same spot in this game? If you shoot at chest, buttocks, head, legs and arms you are sure to get a kill.

[GOPHUR]

I did some pretty thorough testing on these just now and there are some basic conclusions.

• heads have helmets so it takes several shots there
  
• the whole head acts like a helmet due to the low poly count damage model
  
• this is the same for all crew likely
  
• body shots can kill on the first shot of exposed crew
  
• crew in cabs almost always bleed out from the first shot but it takes time due to the reduction of joules from the bullet passing through the vehicle body
  

All in all I can't find anything particularly wrong. I might question the heads as helmets thing but it could go either way. The real answer is to replace all the crew which is a ticketed task.

I find no bug.

[vonbreur]

Of course there's no "bug"... it's the way coding has been since Day One pretty much.

The ATG model should have audio files assigned to it when it's moving and when it is deploying. Furthermore, and dependent upon the ATG type, ATG deployment times should be increased as necessary to better equate with historical figures if possible. Lasty, the "whole head is a helmet thing" is no longer acceptable (in terms of gameplay). I realize all that CRS has done to this game... but reworking ATG damage models should have been addressed when attrition was done to this game (i.e. years ago).

Here we are today where a single ATG is being attacked by multiple ETs and it shrugs them off only to kill one or more of the ETs.

As to the "shoot not at their head but at their torso" argument... some of us do just that and have been doing that for years. We learned long ago that ATG crew "heads" are impervious to damage (ref: Gophur's statement that ATG crew "heads" are "helmeted" thus implying they should have larger damage thresholds before any effect is seen...

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[delems]

Hmm, I always aim for the head (pilot, truck, tank commander, ATG, etc.) as to me a head shot is a sure kill..... hmm, going to have to rethink that.