Trucks should have no timer on placing FRU's

[GOPHUR]

Daisy chains of FRU´s is a great idea - but I see two things that you would need also when implementing that:

- Multiple FB´s that can be placed by players

- A possibility for ML´s to move their origin to another FB (within a set range of the first) if the one they have in their mission goes down

I don't see these as required to make daisy-chains a good idea. I like them both however.

As it is today many players get "stuck" on missions when the FB goes down (they remain spawned in but the mission is a dead end since no-one else i spawning with them). This would only become worse with daisy chains since counter attacks would quickly concentrate on the one FB to be able to close all daisy chains.

That is in no way different than it is now. Close the FB and all attacking missions are rendered moot.

What you want here is #2 where you could pick a new origin and if need be a new target and have your "mission" members (or more correctly your group) stay together. Thus "missions" no longer ever b3ecome invalid, they just change objective.

So lets get mobile FB´s in there together with this concept and let the missions remain a focus point even if the FB goes down by letting ML´s move their origian to another open FB.

Let's kill missions completely and get multiple options for choosing your origin. But at the end of the day I have to be able to end your attack abnd that, for now, still means FBs.

[GOPHUR]

well' date=' yes and no, bridges destroyed stop tanks, and greatly limit inf. crossing, one well positioned scout car or even lmg, can easily kill any swimmers, but with fru, one swimmer is all that has to make it across and place fru, call it in and within seconds dozens can be across. Hardly realistic.[/quote']

I can see your point but do not have a better answer to time to battle which is another way of saying customer retention which is honestly another way of saying we get to keep playing.

[hick]

Honestly probably not. The "grid system" isn't really feasible with the current strat system. Besides' date=' when you place an FRU you own that area by the fact that the enemy presence in the area isn't strong enough to put 1 lone bullet into the thing and make it go poof.[/quote']

My main argument in favour of the grid system is that it hard codes a capture and control mechanism that is completely independent of cities and buildings. (of course, a building can be in a grid space and therefore still be "captured").

In response to the idea that the act of placing an FRU implies control, in theory I would say yes, but without some sort of force-strength criteria (such as x friendlies within y distance, something inherent with a grid-based capture system) in practice it has very little correlation with control of an area since all it takes is one infantry "making it through" the enemy's lines while still being within range to deploy.

[jdubya]

I can see your point but do not have a better answer to time to battle which is another way of saying customer retention which is honestly another way of saying we get to keep playing.

I think what I have failed to realize here until just now, is just how serious the need is to build up and keep the player base. "customer retention" , "exit points" and similar statements have come up in threads containing arguments around Realism vs "time to battle" or "exit points" and other reasons new players might become frustrated and stop paying, er.. I mean Playing. Same reason I was told the death cam was here to stay when I complained about pushing an atg or tank out and searching for just the right spot for ambush, only to have him come back in seconds and kill me because he had that circling view of the area after he died, to see where I was. Shoot and move! you say, right, soon as you move and start making noise you are dead. But we must not frustrate the new guy who gets killed and dont know from what, so he wont leave. It took me two weeks just to learn how to run in and hide long enough to stick my head up and see what kept killing me, it was awesome! I guess its just the reality of the shorter attention span of the players you have to try to attract and hold now, I suppose I am in a small minority of players who would just as soon go back to no spawns at all, when you would actually have to load up a bunch of guys in a 251 and come charging up to the door and fight it out, ducking and dogging ea all the way, I miss opel races, *sniff* But if thats the bottom line, then thats just the way its gotta be, were a minority and you gotta pay the bills or nobody gets to play..... sad though.

[ezrelay]

Very good point on the rivers. I'm not sure it trumps the time-to-battle issues that help keep us from gaining new players but it is valid none the less.

How do daisy-chain msp work with that in mind. As you have to advance and hold the territory with a rather large box that can be killed with a single bullet shouldn't that be better?

Bridges stop tanks, not infantry. I can see the argument against that. Especially with FRU placement as it is now where you have to place it close to your taqrget and not your origin (and then from your current FRU placement and so on).

Does everyone get this concept clearly?

I want to talk about that not trucks. Not going back to "must place by truck" as it sits now.

Daisy chain FRUs:

• ML spawn at FB

• ML can place FRU within X meters of FB (say 500).

• ML spawns at FRU1

• ML can place FRU2 within X meters of FRU1

• ML spawns at FRU2

• ML can place FRU3 within X meters of FRU2

• ML spawns at FRU3

• FRU3 is destroyed

• FRU2 becomes active

• ML dies and respawns at FRU 2

• FRU2 is destroyed

• FRU1 becomes active

• ML dies and respawns at FRU1

• FB is destroyed

• FRU1 is destroyed

• Mission is no longer active as origin is invalid

If a player destroys FRU 1, does this effect FRU 2 & 3? Also will the players have a choice of which FRU to spawn into or will it always be the "lead" FRU?

[hick]

If a player destroys FRU 1' date=' does this effect FRU 2 & 3? Also will the players have a choice of which FRU to spawn into or will it always be the "lead" FRU?[/quote']

The way I understand it is there will still only be 1 active FRU per mission. So FRU2 being placed removes FRU1, FRU3 removes FRU2, etc. If FRU3 is destroyed, FRU2 "pops" back up. FRU2 then is destroyed and FRU1 "pops" up. FB is destroyed then whatever FRU is active is gone and the mission is no longer valid (untill dynamic missions are in place, but that's another discussion)

[monsjoex]

I like this daisy chain thing gophur.

However how long will it take before this comes in?

If it takes another year for something like that, i'd rather have trucks have no timer for a while then untill the daisy chain concept comes in.

Also how will dynamic targetting and origin's be worked in this? When looking at the future?

edit: btw when moving up the ML wouldn't respawn at the fru he just placed. Unless he dies but its unlikely for that to happen when close to FB and the attack hasn't started yet.

Edited July 19, 2011 by monsjoex

[GOPHUR]

I like this daisy chain thing gophur.

However how long will it take before this comes in?

If it takes another year for something like that, i'd rather have trucks have no timer for a while then untill the daisy chain concept comes in.

Also how will dynamic targetting and origin's be worked in this? When looking at the future?

edit: btw when moving up the ML wouldn't respawn at the fru he just placed. Unless he dies but its unlikely for that to happen when close to FB and the attack hasn't started yet.

Shouldn't take too long if people seem to like the idea.

[westy]

I like the idea! Could I also request a simple 'overstock' FRU option from trucks as well. Separating a resupply point from a spawn point.

Trucks placing a supply crate set up that does only that... provide supplies. This could also be extended hopefully to transport planes with air drops, transport ships with shore line ammo dumps etc.

Cheers and all the best!

Westy

[monsjoex]

Shouldn't take too long if people seem to like the idea.

Well the idea is good but the numbers will matter.

1. Whats distance between the fru's?

2. Is there a limit on the amount of fru's before the first one dissappears?

3. How will i see where the old fru's are?

4. Whats the timer on placing a fru?

5. Whats timer between fru placements?

6. Whats timer on placing fru after destruction of the last one?

For example if your max range between fru's is 300m.

And FB is 4km from town it will take 12 fru's to get to good range.

12x 1 minute placement = 12 minutes. Nevermind the walking.

So 500m range would be needed, brings it down to 6-7 min. Although you would want a smaller placement timer than the current one of 1 minute.

Also this idea of yours fixes the river aspect of the current FRU, you can place a fru near the river and then the 2nd fru over the river, but as soon as the enemy pushes you back you will have trouble getting over the river again.

Edited July 19, 2011 by monsjoex

[w0rmz]

ok dumb question, if ML makes fru 1, then fru 2 etc etc...then they get destroyed 3-2-1 but the fb is still active, does said ML have to restart a new number 1 fru if ALL his/her fru's have been destroyed?

[jdubya]

I have an idea, lets just make it so only trucks can be mobile spawns, then we could set as many as we wanted, virtually anywhere we wanted, they would be easier to hide than the silly red and white and blue flags on the boxes, which can be seen from space, yeah thats realistic. Oh wait we already had that . It is simply amazing to me how far down the road you are willing to take this rather than admit the fru was not a very good idea.

[monsjoex]

ok dumb question' date=' if ML makes fru 1, then fru 2 etc etc...then they get destroyed 3-2-1 but the fb is still active, does said ML have to restart a new number 1 fru if ALL his/her fru's have been destroyed?[/quote']

Of course.

Why not?

You put up 3 fru's 500m from each other. The enemy pushes to fru3 and kills it, then you spawn at fru2 and fight the enemy who is at the fru3 location now. Fru2 gets killed too and you spawn at fru1. Then if that gets killed you spawn at the fb and the enemy will most likely have spawns at your old fru1 position.

[monsjoex]

It would make it impossible to attack england btw.. at least to set MSPS.

[delems]

Didn't they attack England before FRUs? How?

[monsjoex]

Didn't they attack England before FRUs? How?

You can use paras and the spawnable yeah.

[GOPHUR]

You can use paras and the spawnable yeah.

Paras can't place FRUs AFAIK.

[GOPHUR]

It would make it impossible to attack england btw.. at least to set MSPS.

Yes it would. You'd need to have naval PPOs to do that.

[hick]

Paras can't place FRUs AFAIK.

He was sayin prior to fru's they would either ferry folks and equipment across or para in and cap the spawnable depots.

Sent from my Ginger Nookcolor via Tapatalk

[monsjoex]

A valid point is brought up in an other topic:

What if i place a fru at a location, and i keep placing new fru's on almost the exact spot?

If someone kills my fru the fru will pop up again, and someone will be able to kill the enemy before he can kill all the fru's. Then i will just place the fru again a few times.

This especially in a scenario where 1 side is overpop and the other underpop. The underpopped side then depends on 1-4 guys being able to sneak and kill the enemy fru's. A frontal infantry fight is very hard when underpop.

[monsjoex]

I did some testing and 200m really is too short imo, 300m would be better.

It takes 34 seconds to jog 200m so the deployment timer on the fru's needs to be short, else you have to wait 1 min every 34 seconds..

However this will make you be able to place 10 fru's in 10 minutes or so.. making your fru almost unkillable.

Edited July 27, 2011 by monsjoex

[bigrow]

A valid point is brought up in an other topic:

What if i place a fru at a location, and i keep placing new fru's on almost the exact spot?

If someone kills my fru the fru will pop up again, and someone will be able to kill the enemy before he can kill all the fru's. Then i will just place the fru again a few times.

This especially in a scenario where 1 side is overpop and the other underpop. The underpopped side then depends on 1-4 guys being able to sneak and kill the enemy fru's. A frontal infantry fight is very hard when underpop.

This. I'm thinking a maximum number of FRUs per mission. You could build say 8 max, if they get killed back to #5 but regain control you could then go back up to 8 again.

This would stop you doing circles around town, or criss-crossing 20 FRUs so that they are effectively unkillable.

[bigrow]

I did some testing and 200m really is too short imo' date=' 300m would be better.[/quote']

Not sure about that, 200m would give the attacker a decent chance to stop defenders getting out to setup FRUs behind them...providing they are watching all sides of course.

[monsjoex]

This. I'm thinking a maximum number of FRUs per mission. You could build say 8 max, if they get killed back to #5 but regain control you could then go back up to 8 again.

This would stop you doing circles around town, or criss-crossing 20 FRUs so that they are effectively unkillable.

True but you would like to be able to do some manouvring.

In liege for example you would want to be able to place like 30 fru's since it takes a lot of time to move-cap that town. The Fb is 2,9km from the first depot already.

[monsjoex]

Not sure about that' date=' 200m would give the attacker a decent chance to stop defenders getting out to setup FRUs behind them...providing they are watching all sides of course.[/quote']

Yeah but it takes 34 seconds to jog 200m.

Say there is a deployment timer of 30 seconds.

It means it takes 64 seconds for 200m.

Now I measured liege fb to the first depot and gembloux, both were 2,9km. So minus like 500m you have to move 2,4km. That means 12x64 seconds= 768 seconds or 12,8 minute to start an attack.

If its 300m it takes: 8x64= 512 seconds or 8,5 minute.