Trucks should have no timer on placing FRU's

[bigrow]

nvm

Edited July 27, 2011 by bigrow

[weiker]

well' date=' yes and no, bridges destroyed stop tanks, and greatly limit inf. crossing, one well positioned scout car or even lmg, can easily kill any swimmers, but with fru, one swimmer is all that has to make it across and place fru, call it in and within seconds dozens can be across. Hardly realistic.[/quote']

I can see your point but do not have a better answer to time to battle which is another way of saying customer retention which is honestly another way of saying we get to keep playing.

How is time to battle an issue in whether FRUs can cross rivers? If they can't, the mission leader drops it on the attacker's side, and then the soldiers that spawn immediately have to fight their way across the river. That's a pretty short TTB. Less than normal, if the bridge is defended. If the bridge isn't defended, but is destroyed, they'll spawn engineers and fix it. Now if they can get a truck across the river, they should be able to spawn their FRU from that on the other side, just like a truck could have crossed and set up an MSP.

You talk a lot about control. I say if a side can't control a bridge well enough to keep it up and get a truck across it, then they don't really control it. Let them fight for the bridge, with the short TTB I mentioned above, until they either secure it, or are driven back.

***

About the daisy chaining, why don't you just have the ML choose a spot on the map and have his soldiers all spawn there? You've abandoned the idea of having to fight your way into an area, why not go whole hog? Or do you really think that FRUs are set up after an attacker has taken control of an area by force, instead of by some jackass low-crawling through the bushes, afraid to stick his head up because the people that actually control the area would blow it off?

No, of course you don't believe that, because you're not stupid. But that's what you're arguing, and it makes your listener think you believe they are stupid.

So let the attacking ei spawn wherever the ML wants. The TTB won't be ****. It won't make much difference to the defenders, because they can't see the low-crawling infantry setting FRUs now, and they won't see the inactive FRU locations in the daisy chain that are invisible under your proposal. When EI start to come from random directions? Won't remark on it, because the same thing already happens. Just the next logical step in the Game Start>MSP>FRU>future chain.

You know, the Planetside 2 designers are talking about speeding up their game too, and just like here, they're also getting pushback from their original customers. But that's the MMO industry these days. No one does anything different, they just try to ape the most profitable product. Happens in fantasy games, happens in sci-fi, and happens with FPSs. 'Course, aping hasn't proved to be a particularly successful strategy, but that hasn't stopped anyone yet.

- Weiker

[monsjoex]

So let the attacking ei spawn wherever the ML wants. The TTB won't be ****. It won't make much difference to the defenders, because they can't see the low-crawling infantry setting FRUs now, and they won't see the inactive FRU locations in the daisy chain that are invisible under your proposal. When EI start to come from random directions? Won't remark on it, because the same thing already happens. Just the next logical step in the Game Start>MSP>FRU>future chain.

You're talking nonsense here.

The current system allows you to place a fru everywhere. Daisy chain will stop that, not increase it.

To set up a fru close to town you have to set up a fru every 200-300m(tbd) from the FB. So you can't place a fru in the middle of nowhere, you have to work towards that spot. Nowadays its very easy to flank around town and set up a MSP, but with daisy chain this will become much harder. You can't just set up a msp anywhere, you have to work towards a spot.

If the enemy forward base is west, and the defenders hold an area thats 200m width from the N to the S, no msps can be put up east of town. Because you can't just sneak an infantry unit through, you have to build a fru every 200m. Also flanking around quickly with a truck won't be possible.

[elegance]

No matter what they will come up with we will manage to game it to the extreme.

[monsjoex]

No matter what they will come up with we will manage to game it to the extreme.

of course.

[weiker]

You're talking nonsense here.

The current system allows you to place a fru everywhere. Daisy chain will stop that, not increase it.

To set up a fru close to town you have to set up a fru every 200-300m(tbd) from the FB. So you can't place a fru in the middle of nowhere, you have to work towards that spot. Nowadays its very easy to flank around town and set up a MSP, but with daisy chain this will become much harder. You can't just set up a msp anywhere, you have to work towards a spot.

I see enough decent FRU locations in the terrain to render that argument moot. The infantry are going to end up at the same place as before, only now they'll have some invisible fallback spawnpoints to boot.

If the enemy forward base is west, and the defenders hold an area thats 200m width from the N to the S, no msps can be put up east of town. Because you can't just sneak an infantry unit through, you have to build a fru every 200m.

That's a very nice solution for a drawing board, but it would take a lot of manpower to pull that off on most actual map locations, even assuming the 200m that's most friendly to such a plan. Let one mistake happen or one sector be compromised or your defense be too slow to set up, suddenly they are past you and the FRU near the exclusion zone is now invisible. Like a virus they are inside and one infantry is now spawning a dozen, as the original probably just pulls a circle around the town laying new FRUs. In tightly contested areas it may be an improvement, but in most cases I don't imagine such control over the terrain will be possible.

Also flanking around quickly with a truck won't be possible.

No, if the FRU build times are long, the ML won't ride a vehicle at all. I bet that will change after MLs start complaining about how long it takes them to leg it into town. The same smacktards that the system is designed to accomodate aren't going to want to spend a half-hour of their time setting up a chain, I'm sure.

I don't agree that the change will stop unrealistic gameplay (well it won't, since the change doesn't involve removing FRUs). The slowdown on FRU deployers reaching their desired area is overbalanced by their gift of free fallback spawnpoints. Now you can kill every single damn ei that spawned and roast their FRU, and they'll just be back in a minute from their next super-secret hideout X meters away. You could call in a squadron of 111s and carpetbomb the entire area between the town and the firebase, and it wouldn't get rid of them. *sigh*

- Weiker

[monsjoex]

I see enough decent FRU locations in the terrain to render that argument moot. The infantry are going to end up at the same place as before, only now they'll have some invisible fallback spawnpoints to boot.

I don't agree that the change will stop unrealistic gameplay (well it won't, since the change doesn't involve removing FRUs). The slowdown on FRU deployers reaching their desired area is overbalanced by their gift of free fallback spawnpoints. Now you can kill every single damn ei that spawned and roast their FRU, and they'll just be back in a minute from their next super-secret hideout X meters away. You could call in a squadron of 111s and carpetbomb the entire area between the town and the firebase, and it wouldn't get rid of them. *sigh*

- Weiker

You forget the whole thing that the fallback fru is 200m from the killed fru.

So you know approx where the future fru will be, easy to track.

if an infantry sneaked through your lines .. kill the msp once .. then move 200m to the west and you can kill the msp again.

[GOPHUR]

"How is time to battle an issue in whether FRUs can cross rivers?"

It isn't.

1) Truck only Infantry MSP's are no longer an option

2) MSP's have no concept of across the river

[GOPHUR]

A valid point is brought up in an other topic:

What if i place a fru at a location, and i keep placing new fru's on almost the exact spot?

If someone kills...

It would seem you wouldn't want to let players do that.

[fxmmauser]

I agree monsj here.

You take the risk and efforts to drive a truck to place a fru. You cant defend, you are big, you are noisy and destroyable by everything. WHY not give to trucks a more than reasonable FRU posibility?

I also agree with monsj this is safer and easier to implement rather than chains fru's.

It also tries to bring the fast mobile assault to the battlefield , *a player sees a truck park behind a hill after 1min a whole squad pop us advancing to objective.*

With daisy chains fru's there will be an enormous amount of fru's in highly participated towns.

And for the looks of it the blow that the defender can make on an attack is seriously reduced.

[monsjoex]

Kicking this topic up.

Now there is an overall timer of 8 minutes on placing fru's, it's just too long.

For gameplay sake the timer should be lowered a bit, 5 minutes or so, speed up the game, trucks shouldn't have timers and you shouldn't keep the timer when you switch missions.

[david06]

I'm really not seeing why this has been neglected for so long.

The way infantry spawn in a FPS is kind of important.

[tomppeli2k]

i think it would be better if we dont have fru at all, the teamwork and communicating and planning would come better like of course it was before fru... only thing is then that new players thinks i need to run 10km to die, i hate this game... lol... it needs teamwork!! give a ride to infantry by trucks and tanks or boats or planes!! do not die! and also it would look like more cool if there is coming first 60 players sitting in trucks and then set up "camp" to woods... then make a plan... split them to 2 or 3 pieces and go on work!

or... that would really see 60 players assaulting in same time and then the last few guys is asking reinforces and then there comes many again and then go as friends to die

thats what i got bad on fru... it would be cool if in every attack there is form and then moving to place etc etc...

[david06]

i think it would be better if we dont have fru at all, the teamwork and communicating and planning would come better like of course it was before fru... only thing is then that new players thinks i need to run 10km to die, i hate this game... lol... it needs teamwork!! give a ride to infantry by trucks and tanks or boats or planes!! do not die! and also it would look like more cool if there is coming first 60 players sitting in trucks and then set up "camp" to woods... then make a plan... split them to 2 or 3 pieces and go on work!

or... that would really see 60 players assaulting in same time and then the last few guys is asking reinforces and then there comes many again and then go as friends to die

thats what i got bad on fru... it would be cool if in every attack there is form and then moving to place etc etc...

The defender is way too overpowered for truck-transported infantry to work. Attacker vs defender is a separate issue though.

The FRU timer was put in place because of complaints about infantry sneaking by and setting spawn points. You are not sneaking anywhere in a truck so you should not incur the same penalty when you set a FRU with a truck. There won't be an endless stream of truck-placed FRUs because all a player has to do is kill the truck(rather than hunt a lone infantryman).

[GOPHUR]

It was set to 7 minutes a looooong time ago. I can see the pros of shortening it some.

People wanted it longer so that you had more benefit from destroying one.

unfortunately I don't have a mechanism to differentiate who places them. It's all based on the object not the placer. The trucks advantage is it can travel faster while the inf advantage is that it can travel more stealthily.

So with that limitation what are the pros and cons of changing this timer?

[fxmkorp]

I would say I partially agree with this.

Fru's made by trucks are more dangerous first because the enemy can hear you, a truck is more easy to spot than a infantry and the quality of fru placement is inferior so... having no fru timer would be balanced with the how easy the ability to kill it is

Advantages

When fru's were implement there was no timer which would add a great deal of fun and immersion for the attackers and defenders since the enemy could almost instantaneous switch from attack direction this would contribute to some legendary attacks and defenses but I do agree it was kinda of unbalanced.

What I think would be better:

-The return of mobile spawns - trucks would now be able to turn again in MS and would have a squad limit equipment 1 Sappers, 1 Mortar , 1 lmg, 2 Smg and 5 riflemen .

What would this do for players and the battlefield.

-This would add that component of mobile warfare/infantry from suprise squad based attacks from a wide of directions.

-Immersion for example: on singleplayer games you see trucks with squad of enemy troops drop them near you this looks great and it would be similar on BGE "a soldier sees a truck park behind a hill he gets there and see 10 soldiers spawning out of the truck".

-The main bulk of enemy spawn would still be fru's but MS would force the defenders to really defend.

-This would be the updated version of hot drops safer in terms of fun since a lonely ei could not destroy completely or annoy the entire squad.

Still my view ...

Trucks go fast to a location you placed fru then you spawn and walk with infantry and replaced it in a better position, from this point the entire re-positioning of the FRU is done via Infantry not by truck..

So currently good FRUs are not really driven or placed by Trucks they simply are used to place the first stage of the MS.

With more MS via trucks you give more content to air, facilitate tows and rides to new recruits, it also provides a more realistic and populated Battlefield.

BTW Welcome back GOPHUR

My current reduction of the timer by object only would be:

- Reduce FRU replacement including closing the fru (without enemy destruction) to 3mins.

(We need MLs to close more times their FRUs and moved them to better locations)

Edited February 25, 2013 by fxmkorp

[tomppeli2k]

Exactly' date=' the first FRU by truck makes bridges and rivers somewhat important. Maybe No FRUs allowed within 2 Km of any downed bridge.[/quote']

exactly! but i think its maybe better without FRU at all... but then we will see that no one left in game because they cant wait for truck and drive it 2 - 5 minutes into near the town and regroup there and go on...

that is what i would love to see which we once had... before we had FRUs