AWS doesnot work

[smythes]

it may take a RAT being online to see if anyone is in a square we suspect is actually empty when a bomber raid comes through, or putting together a raid for testing purposes.

Defo - only way to tell - otherwise showing maps and watching patterns unless you and your tester are the only known players on the map is extremely problematic.

[clone9cz]

How do you know those squares don't have EA?

Unless we can:

Check the servers to see if players are up

Confirm no air is there at the airfields

Confirm no missions are up

Thats a whole lot of variables on that suggestion before it can be fact.

when you kill 1 ea and all squares turn off simultaneously?

is the built in innacuracy enough to trigger squares to light with nothing in or adjacent to them? ie, not a bug?

YOUR QUESTIONS ARE NOT GOOD, BETTER ONE: IS POSSIBLE LIGHTING UP AWS AT SAME TIME FOR 30 minutes in this example. HOW it is hard, if it is possible

Sorry, this inaccuracy is not inaccuracy, but sabotage !!!

[boman]

I'd have to test to answer that. From the read me:

- EWS will still show bombers that have been reported as sighted near towns

- EWS does not show fighters

- AWS may not be interdicted, it is the culmination of several types of signals and intelligence

- AWS mat not be avoided though the system is not 100% accurate

- AWS does not differentiate between types of aircraft

Maybe this will IN-lighten you...

Your doing it all wrong!

hold on one second...

[thief]

How do you know those squares don't have EA?

Unless we can:

Check the servers to see if players are up

Confirm no air is there at the airfields

Confirm no missions are up

Thats a whole lot of variables on that suggestion before it can be fact.

Because the frontlines are 10 squares away yet still you see a yellow pop in and out of existence over nowhere. And it's always below the actual TRUE yellow.

There's no ea there, simple. It's a bug.

Pretty amazing that some regular flyboys still haven't figured it out.

[GOPHUR]

@thief

I need to be able to replicate this. Any ideas or suggestions where to start? Other than just flying around which I'll do today for a bit.

[groog]

Gophur, This is a serious issue. If you want to encourage large + escorted bomber flights, the "forced inaccuracies" must be removed. As it stands, it encourages lone bombers to go in hoping for the best because squares will bounce all over randomly throwing off attackers.

Also, a few weeks back Veruca and I were going to intercept a set of bombers RTBing. we were near eindhoven when the square moved S instead of east, so we vectored to intercept. The square stayed in place for about 3 minutes, then suddenly vanished and reappeared over geel. This AWS skipped an entire column without being recorded. And, no, there was no squares nearby that could have moved into this square. Also, there were no active AOs that far north at the time.

Edited August 23, 2011 by groog

[clone9cz]

aws-echo-133.mp4 (3MB)

Nice video with minigame.

[GOPHUR]

Don't know why I'm not getting updates on this thread. I'm going to test this next week. Check my method:

• Machine 1 - fly lone allied plane around map
  
• Machine 2 - as axis watch ews
  

Expected Bug: Random squares will light up where the plane is not.

Is that what I'm looking for?

[stopiv]

clone AWS with RDP

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/K46DkN8-WNja9uHyQ0fYQw?feat=directlink

[stopiv]

test AWS Clon

https://picasaweb.google.com/103967033029657594769/BattlegroundEurope2?authuser=0&feat=directlink

[thief]

Don't know why I'm not getting updates on this thread. I'm going to test this next week. Check my method:

• Machine 1 - fly lone allied plane around map

• Machine 2 - as axis watch ews

Expected Bug: Random squares will light up where the plane is not.

Is that what I'm looking for?

Yes. That should do it. Random yellow is always below the actual yellow. It's happening on live server non-stop.

[thief]

Like this. From the live map. The only real yellow is the knokke one. Both S ones are fakes/bugs:

And then the ea at knokke moved W:

[thief]

And if the bug is found/fixed can you please lower the number of ea to trigger the red square?

5 ea was a bit low. 20-25 ea is clearly too high - you never see the red square anymore.

7-8 would be perfect in my opinion.

Thank you.

[GOPHUR]

I'll do the red alert change ASAP. Need to talk to DOC.

I tried testing for this on beta today but AWS is borked. When it gets fixed maybe this will too.

[veruca]

Gophur, I love you.

Also, Groog is right, If the idea of AWS was in increase the chances of finding your enemy for a fight, the inaccuracies are only hurting those chances. Think of the green tags! Those poor fools don't know that those yellows in the south are absolutely nothing. When we chase shadow yellows, we create yellows, so people come looking for us, and by the time we RTB we have a random allied pilot chasing nothing. It's doing the exact opposite of it's intended purpose.

Edited September 27, 2011 by veruca

[Fabao]

Thanks for doing that, Gophur.

[fxmmauser]

20 People play this game often and know that 10 is about right since 15 EA is already a considerable high number of Air units ingame and can be seen more often than those 25

I seriously had no idea the 10 was the most voted answer seems alot of players share the same ingame knowledge .

[Chief]

I don't see the option in the poll to have it removed.

Flawed poll.

[Raus]

AWS should be gone. Period.

[SNIPER62]

if this did get changed, may i ask what did it get changed to?

[GOPHUR]

AWS should be gone. Period.

Why?

Pros:

• prevents RDP bombers skirting the map to avoid play

• stands in for a variety of systems from spotters and spies to rudimentary radar

• encourages players to combat each other

Cons:

I leave these to you though I have a few on my list.

[rwkeen]

A few cons that come to mind:

Transports and bombers that are already massivley vunerable to all fighters are shown by the AWS, and rarely make it to target or survive, and thus less players actualy bother to try.

It removes the need to actualy fly combat patrols over the front as you in theory know exactly where the enemy is. Basically people log in, look at AWS map, if nothing apparently is lit up they log, or don't fly. NOT good for the air war!

This also removes almost all the need to actually LOOK when flying, as most pilots just have the map up, if yellow you look out, if not, fly straight, etc.

As for the AWS simulating radar, spotters, etc, well for BIG raids, thats vaild, but for small numbers of dispersed planes, not really. If you could find a way of doing it ONLY over your own side of the lines, then more people might buy the spotters/radar argument.

Comparining the air war today to that of pre-AWS times, it seams a lot less enjoyable one.

[Fabao]

• prevents RDP bombers skirting the map to avoid play

That was the only thing it should do, as proposed. Ie: covering areas without the old (and better) EWS system. Now, if the front is in Antwerp, you can see a yellow square comming from England, Le Touquet or even Frankfurt.

[Fabao]

A few cons that come to mind:

Transports and bombers that are already massivley vunerable to all fighters are shown by the AWS, and rarely make it to target or survive, and thus less players actualy bother to try.

It removes the need to actualy fly combat patrols over the front as you in theory know exactly where the enemy is. Basically people log in, look at AWS map, if nothing apparently is lit up they log, or don't fly. NOT good for the air war!

This also removes almost all the need to actually LOOK when flying, as most pilots just have the map up, if yellow you look out, if not, fly straight, etc.

As for the AWS simulating radar, spotters, etc, well for BIG raids, thats vaild, but for small numbers of dispersed planes, not really. If you could find a way of doing it ONLY over your own side of the lines, then more people might buy the spotters/radar argument.

Comparining the air war today to that of pre-AWS times, it seams a lot less enjoyable one.

This.

[GOPHUR]

Edited by me.

Transports and bombers ... are shown by the AWS' date=' and rarely make it to target ... thus less players actualy bother to try.[/quote']

Very fair. I can argue that they should take escorts but if there's no one there then what. I want bombers bombing factories and fighters hunting them. Any AWS is going to hurt that to some degree.

Unfortunately getting rid of an alert system isn't a great answer. Giving these guys a fire control director (which I can now do) or AI gunners (which I'd like to be able to do but can't yet) is a better answer. Not happening today.

It removes the need to actualy fly combat patrols over the front ... people log in, look at AWS map, if nothing apparently is lit up they log

This is more interesting. CAP as current is crap. There isn't a good reporting mechanism. That needs to be there.

This also removes almost all the need to actually LOOK when flying, as most pilots just have the map up, if yellow you look out, if not, fly straight, etc.

Yeah OK. I guess it starts depending on if you want the sim to be about fighting or flying around looking for a fight. Both have their audience. One is substantially bigger I believe. But ultimately you want to be able to have both. Well, I want to have both anyhoo. I need to have "jump in and go here and dogfight" abilities as well.

As for the AWS simulating radar, spotters, etc, well for BIG raids, thats vaild, but for small numbers of dispersed planes, not really. If you could find a way of doing it ONLY over your own side of the lines, then more people might buy the spotters/radar argument.

Right so...

• have AWS over squares where I own all of the towns (no front or foront?)
  
• have AWS on squares where there is nobody (figure out how to handle the seas)
  
• allow players to report enemies to the AWS system
  
• no auto AWS over enemy territory
  

If I can do that is that good?