Dispersion

[chiapet]

Have to agree to both sides of the argument on the MP40.

I can pick off ei at long range with single shots almost like a rifle.

This campaign, I stood behind an ei atr firing ~6 short bursts at him from 10ft distance; he had the time to put his atr away, pick up his pistol, turn around, and kill me with one shot vs. my ~18 rounds pointed directly at his back and still firing more as he turned to shoot me??? Dispersion??

this is what im talking about, your like so close theres no way you can miss yet, there it is, everyround does some comical outlines shooting of your target and rounds are literally leaving your barrel at 45 degree angles.

hmmm were we overpop at the time you did this?

Edited August 6, 2011 by chiapet

[Sudden]

Can't remember if we were overpop.

At first I thought the guy must be cheating.

I'm also wondering if it is related to the players stamina bar. If you're low, it makes some sense that you would have difficulty aiming but not at such a close range.

Have to see what it's like in 1.34 I guess.

[dgsbdy]

I've seen this happen with an MP40 crouched in the bunker, taking a test shot at the wall just a few feet away. Short finger taps and aimed the rounds would be widely scattered across a wall just a few yards away. There's been several instances where I was in a high pop area and would miss EI just feet away standing, but others I dropped guys from distances I know I could never hit IRL. I've fired a Thompson and MP40's numerous times IRL on full auto. M4 too. the M4 was by far the worst, but maybe it was me I was much older .

[Kilemall]

In a close urban firefight with moving infantry that don't necessarily render 'in time' sometimes dispersion will give you that shotgun blast cover all your bets help.

I would be much more concerned if there was a discrepancy between where the shots are modeled hitting, and what they actually are doing, or I'm hitting my target but the visual representation doesn't match what is actually there codewise. That's the stuff of nightmares.

[Lob12]

I dont get it. both the MP40 and luger have horrendous dispersion.

I was in offline mode and tested the luger at 20 meters or whatever distance it is to the first set of targets.

Aim dead center, 1/3 of my shots dont land in the circle, another third are everywhere out side the black and the last third are somewhere in the black.

Same with the MP40.

Im in a fight, i got my mp40 at eyelever and im moving(slow aimspeed animation) im trying to hit a dude literally 10 feet away, and im watching as rounds literally hit 10 feet above and to the right of him...WTF???? he was right up against wall and the rounds, i kid you not, hit everywhere, and i mean EVERYWHERE but him!

Im 3-4 meters away for god sakes!!!

dispersion, on the MP40???

its a freaking sniper-smg lol

[hazylzrd]

Made this for a comparison.

All shots were full auto from 20m standing.

Blue = French

Green = Brit

Red = German

[delems]

For me, it seems like when I'm moving and firing (almost always in CP) I can completely miss. I jump through the rubble wall of the CP and see an ei, open fire with full auto literally on him, I miss, I dead.

Sometimes upstairs too, he'll run in and I'll start spraying, he keeps right on going shooting; me dead, he fine.

Often I'll damage them, but a good portion I won't even hit them. I'm always incredulous after that, like what just happened!?

I've chalked it up to either me moving or he moving and lag. It doesn't happen too often, but it does happen, I'll swear something is wrong with the SMG, like there is just no way to miss at that range.

It's one of the reasons I try and avoid direct combat and rather shoot at them indirectly, just to many misses battling one on one for me.

[Sudden]

The guy I was shooting at was not moving. He had the ATR deployed.

I did not shoot from the hip. I was standing and aiming from a few feet back. I did fire bursts and move closer as they had no effect whatsoever.

Allied? Are you seeing any of this with your mg's? In the game not at the range.

It's really frustrating to watch a guy you shot thru and thru just turn around change weapons and shoot you.

The only way to prove/disprove this is if someone happens to film it.

I would like the Rats to look into it further when they have more time.

[Sudden]

Made this for a comparison.

All shots were full auto from 20m standing.

Blue = French

Green = Brit

Red = German

Can you do this at much closer range? Say 3 meters?

If all is well we should see the groups tighten up some.

Also, short bursts. If you have time that is

[Hinfoos]

what i noticed first when i played axis again was the dispersion on the stug.. it have nto always been that bad right?

can remember to do alot of good hits at long ranges but now it goes all over the place.

[gaven]

I did a dispersion test with a bunch of weapons today on the Axis said. The Luger is awful. I was able to hit the 200m 5/8 times on one of my goes from standing. There's barely even a shot grouping at 20m.

I plan on doing a test again, maybe even doing screenshots if anybody wants to join me.

[hazylzrd]

Can you do this at much closer range? Say 3 meters?

If all is well we should see the groups tighten up some.

Also, short bursts. If you have time that is

SMG Fully auto from about 10ft

Blue = French

Green = Brit

Red = German

EDIT: The previous image was a copy of the LMG results saved under the wrong name. The image on the left is the correct one of SMGs fully auto at about 10ft or 3m. I also added the 20m image on the right for better comparison.

Edited August 7, 2011 by hazylzrd

[branko]

10m

20m

Then - Other than whether the difference between 10 and 20 metres is "historically accurate" - there ain't much wrong with this ... is there?

(nice job hazy)

[hazylzrd]

Did some comparison testing with this method.

Blue = French

Green = Brit

Red = German

SMG's first.

Left picture is fully auto. The right picture is careful burst shots.

Both tests done from 20m standing.

PISTOLS

Left is rapid fire, Right is very carefully aimed.

Both tests done from 20m standing.

Edited August 7, 2011 by hazylzrd

[hazylzrd]

Just out of curiosity I tested the LMGs as well.

Blue = French

Green = Brit

Red = German

Left is fully auto from 10ft standing. Right is very carefully aimed bursts at 200m deployed prone.

[frogdeth]

I think 'have you tried with the recoil on the thompson or mas36' would suffice as an answer here.

Was going to say pretty much the same thing but you beat me to it.

As others have already pointed out, it's all about short bursts with any SMG. With a fast mouse trigger you can single fire a MP40 with amazing accuracy, and it retains good accuracy for short bursts as well. The Thompson will also always put your first bullet on target but after that it you're shooting birds out of the sky. As for the MLE, heck it's more dangerous to the user than the target and that's even after CRS made it more accurate (before standard practice was to aim for their feet if you wanted to hit them in the head).

[Sudden]

SMG Fully auto from about 10ft

Blue = French

Green = Brit

Red = German

EDIT: The previous image was a copy of the LMG results saved under the wrong name. The image on the left is the correct one of SMGs fully auto at about 10ft or 3m. I also added the 20m image on the right for better comparison.

Just wanted to say thanks for all the hard work putting this together. Based on your testing all of them are lethal close in and all spread as expected at distance.

Still scratching my head over my in-game experience. Have to accept that it was my movement towards the target that threw my shots off.

Nice work.

[Lob12]

wrong thread lol

[DOC]

yeah the truly objective tests support what we found when we redid them some time back, and part of that "redoing" was to arrive at a point we felt was satisfactory

we did get there, but naturally that doesn't mean there will not always be some claim it is all completely wrong and that we must be insane or brain dead

(or biased like mad)

[Satan]

Made this for a comparison.

All shots were full auto from 20m standing.

Blue = French

Green = Brit

Red = German

This is what it looks like when i spank my monkey.

S!

[Sudden]

yeah the truly objective tests support what we found when we redid them some time back, and part of that "redoing" was to arrive at a point we felt was satisfactory

we did get there, but naturally that doesn't mean there will not always be some claim it is all completely wrong and that we must be insane or brain dead

(or biased like mad)

Sticky? Good tests were done imo.

[Sudden]

Had to add this just for fun

O38a_Bx18RU

[chiapet]

looks to me like the red is all over the place, and looking at the video, seems the mp 40 is alot more accurate IRL then in game, but thats just my opinion.