Bazooka/panzershreck aiming pictures

[monsjoex]

[zeppoli]

looks like an easy fix for the panzershreck, obviously its broken, but Im sure the rats can fix it pretty easily

[monsjoex]

Why exactly is it broken?

[firebugs]

looks like an easy fix for the panzershreck' date=' obviously its broken, but Im sure the rats can fix it pretty easily[/quote']

Nothing broken about it. It's sighted for 150m. You have to aim low up close, otherwise you would have to aim so high you wouldn't see the tank, just the blast shield.

[matt6767]

Why exactly is it broken?

He probably means the schreck since rockets go way above the intended spot on the tank at 50m. Isnt it funny though that the schreck only works well at point blank yet it has a sight made for 150m?

Edited August 10, 2011 by matt6767

[wolfboy]

He probably means the schreck since rockets go way above the intended spot on the tank at 50m. Isnt it funny though that the schreck only works well at point blank yet it has a sight made for 150m?

ummmm, not to be picky here but 150m is point blank

[swiftcut]

looks like an easy fix for the panzershreck' date=' obviously its broken, but Im sure the rats can fix it pretty easily[/quote']

the sight is lowered so the tube is raised to hit its target at 150m. Just because it says its rocket propelled anti tank does not mean the rocket is propelling it the entire way thus it should be a straight line. The rocket charge is already 90% burnt off before it leaves the tube thus accelerating to 110m/s being a dumb rocket. Think of it like archery of a compound bow. If you shoot far you set the site pins low thus raising the trajectory of the arrow.

Edited August 10, 2011 by swiftcut

[kamel]

If they set the sight line to the same as the Bazooka, you would totally obscure the target when attempting to aim at 100m or more.

By all means... make it the same.

[zeppoli]

does the panzershrecks rocket have wings? I don't know, but when I tried it, I had to AIM DOWN, almost at the ground for the thing to go right..

Doesn't make any sense and I highly doubt thats normal.

[DOC]

no it IS correct, because you look down the tube for sight rendering (as they are not adjustable in terms of relative to your point of visual referance) and you cannot percieve that the barrel is pointing up when it looks like it isn't ... we only do this for the benefit of your rendered sight picture

think of it this way ... the rocket is going up when you think the tube is pointed flat, because the "flat" point of impact is 150+ meters away, so at closer ranges like 50m ... this requires you remove the parabola the rocket would make on a long range shot (and hits where the tube points when it is "flat" to your aiming eyepoint) ... you "remove" that parabola to make the short range shot by pointing the tube down (in your eyepoint) although it is really flat in reality

it's a compromise caused by having a 150+m "bullseye" setting with a hugely parabolic trajectory AND the need to provide you with a usable sight picture where the target is not obscured at ranges as short as 50m AND as far as 300m

without the ability to make the sight picture adjustable

even if you don't undertsand the explanation, it is correct in it's content

[firebugs]

does the panzershrecks rocket have wings? I don't know, but when I tried it, I had to AIM DOWN, almost at the ground for the thing to go right..

Doesn't make any sense and I highly doubt thats normal.

IDK how far your education went/has gone, but I assume you know what a parabola is. If not google it.

All projectiles fly in a parabolic arch, from rocks to intercontinental ballistic missiles. They go up, they level off, then they go down (think throwing a football), or if you fire it straight, it just goes down (kicking a rock off a cliff).

Considering the low velocity of the panzerschreck round, think of it like a football. You have to throw the football up to get it to go 30-40yd, right? No wings on a football.

The exact same thing happens when you set your sights to 2000m on a tank/ship gun, it's just that the tank round is flying 15-30x faster than the panzerschreck round.

Here's a little MS paint drawing to show what's going on. The sights are exagerated to show that the rear sight is higher on the tube than the front sight. Where the Line of sight and trajectory meet is 150m with the schreck.

Edited August 10, 2011 by firebugs

[Sepa]

Why was this moved to testing? I think it was posted in the Barracks as a learning tool.

[DOC]

Because it's reporting/feedback on an RA unit not a campaign unit, and we can't get more done if it's spread across more places.

When these are in the campaign game, then would be the correct time to have feedback we need to read NOW for the current development, in the barracks forum.

[Sepa]

Because it's reporting/feedback on an RA unit not a campaign unit, and we can't get more done if it's spread across more places.

When these are in the campaign game, then would be the correct time to have feedback we need to read NOW for the current development, in the barracks forum.

Thanks for responding, was just wondering. I love the pictures, and I can't wait for someone to make a youtube video to show how to use em.

[zeppoli]

IDK how far your education went/has gone, but I assume you know what a parabola is. If not google it.

All projectiles fly in a parabolic arch, from rocks to intercontinental ballistic missiles. They go up, they level off, then they go down (think throwing a football), or if you fire it straight, it just goes down (kicking a rock off a cliff).

Considering the low velocity of the panzerschreck round, think of it like a football. You have to throw the football up to get it to go 30-40yd, right? No wings on a football.

The exact same thing happens when you set your sights to 2000m on a tank/ship gun, it's just that the tank round is flying 15-30x faster than the panzerschreck round.

Here's a little MS paint drawing to show what's going on. The sights are exagerated to show that the rear sight is higher on the tube than the front sight. Where the Line of sight and trajectory meet is 150m with the schreck.

Nice drawing.. so you're telling me the sights on the tube are angled that way? correct? It just doesn't look like that from the games perspective.. It looks as if the tube and sights are inline with each other... Which is why I questioned it..

The allies are true through out the tube and sights, yet the panzershrecks are angled the way your drawing is, correct?

Also, out of the many games I've played and from the pictures I'm looking at online, its completely different from how this game has made it.. Why have all the other games failed to know this?

Edited August 11, 2011 by zeppoli

[DOC]

it's easier for your perception to line up with what is happening on the bazooka because it's boresighted for 50m

the longer 150m boresighting of the schrek makes it seem more "wrong" to your eye even though it is functioning correctly from a ballistic perspective, if the bazooka was bore sighted for 150m it would probably be even more "wrong" to your eyes than the schrek is, because it has a lower muzzle velocity, causing an even more extreme parabola as it's trajectory

now some have said that we should make the schrek the same as the bazooka, but then you would never be able to sight the longer ranges the skilled users will appreciate because you'd have no sight picture at long range, at all

this is because the sight picture for each is completely different (historically too I might add) and because the germans DID set their bore sighting for 150m, and the Americans used 50m

300m was considered by both sides as perfectly doable on tank targets, and quite a bit longer for buildings ... so we have to ensure you have 50->300m as your functional range variation

Q: how have all the other games got it wrong ?

A: They don't use parabolic trajectories like we do (well they may have SOME parabolic to them, I bet it varies) ... basically they have totally unrealistic muzzle velocities so their RPATS shoot almost flat. We just couldn't be that unrealistic since that has been the cornerstone what we do, realism is a hard sell but we will continue to work harder so that we can have fun AND as much realism as the market can bear.

[zeppoli]

it's easier for your perception to line up with what is happening on the bazooka because it's boresighted for 50m

the longer 150m boresighting of the schrek makes it seem more "wrong" to your eye even though it is functioning correctly from a ballistic perspective, if the bazooka was bore sighted for 150m it would probably be even more "wrong" to your eyes than the schrek is, because it has a lower muzzle velocity, causing an even more extreme parabola as it's trajectory

now some have said that we should make the schrek the same as the bazooka, but then you would never be able to sight the longer ranges the skilled users will appreciate because you'd have no sight picture at long range, at all

this is because the sight picture for each is completely different (historically too I might add) and because the germans DID set their bore sighting for 150m, and the Americans used 50m

300m was considered by both sides as perfectly doable on tank targets, and quite a bit longer for buildings ... so we have to ensure you have 50->300m as your functional range variation

Q: how have all the other games got it wrong ?

A: They don't use parabolic trajectories like we do (well they may have SOME parabolic to them, I bet it varies) ... basically they have totally unrealistic muzzle velocities so their RPATS shoot almost flat. We just couldn't be that unrealistic since that has been the cornerstone what we do, realism is a hard sell but we will continue to work harder so that we can have fun AND as much realism as the market can bear.

Cool, I appreciate the information, I'm glad if this is the way its supposed to be, that it was modeled this way!

I'm going to play with it again tonight, but I was probably looking at the sights only when aiming.. I forgot, but I thought you could see the barrel of the tube when sighting, which is why I thought it was wrong..

looking at the original picture (in this post) it looks like you do NOT see the tube at all while aiming, which now makes complete sense!

Thanks again!

[monsjoex]

Good explanation, especially the picture.

It wasn't where the post was for, more just to aid when people are beta testing but ok .

I got a question though: whats the range on the bazooka when aiming straight on? If panzershreck has 150m.

[DOC]

50m or less (it's not precise, these aren't bullets) ... our main concern is having a usable 50m -> 300m range of usability within current render/art limitations, while we can all dream we're talking about what we can do right now, this instant, with respect to current implementation

PS: the greatest concern for most is that the schrek seems backwards, but this has to do with where the extremely slow lob trajectory originates (end of your barrel) and the fact that when "aimed flat" at 150m it isn't "flat" at all, it just seems it is because you have this mortar round lobbing out of your firepoint 30 degrees up

to make 50m->300m a usable sight picture with this game system, you need to learn the sight picture and use of it as shown in the screen shots at the top of this thread, any other method under the current system would give you a sight picture useability range of about 50m, max, because we have your eye clamped to look through the front and rear sight even though you're really looking at it like it was just a front sight, relative to how the weapoin is working ballistically

so your sight picture is false really, because you never move the tube relative to your eye looking through both sights, your eye is always lining up both sights ... which we are stuck with modeling right now given the other factors which would make the sight picture unusable any other way with it's long "standard" sight setting ... if we used a shorter default sight setting with this system, you'd see nothing at longer ranges

think of it as a front sight alone with an angled up tube (even though you don't see the tube being angled) and it makes sense and isn't so unintuitive, so in Firebugs neat picture you are looking at both sights lined up but using them like it is just a front sight. Then it makes sense

ranges less than the 150m default, sight goes down as you lower the tube relative to the target eye (seen as sight going down) and ranges longer than default 150m the sight will go up relative to the target, because you aren't really lining up a front and rear sight, that's just what it looks like when the target is perfectly at the set default range of 150 (approx.) meters

your pivot point is 150 meters away, with the bazooka it is almost point blank really, so the crossover can be confusing

the bazooka is not angled up much at default sight setting because it is set so much shorter, we can do that only because it has a full screen sight picture allowing you to see through the "bottom of the sight picture" ... so it doesn't seem so "backward" to coin a phrase. If we did that to the Schrek there would be no target in the picture, it would be hidden by the shield

[romzburg]

Will you please make it so we can spawn tanks (etc) offline with full damage models, and leave them sitting there while we spawn a boomzooka to shoot at them.

Better yet, give us a ".benchremagen" type command that will put a dozen tanks out there, like 3 tanks at 50 meters, 3 at 100, 3 at 150 and 3 at 200.

".practicemathilda", ".practicesherman", etc.

Thanks.

____________________

motormouth:

Much as Romzy's posting style can give me headaches (and the fact that he's "NEVAR WRONG!!"), that post pretty much nails it on the head.

sgtchief:

romz you['re] my damn hero

sydney:

Ya know, at first Romsburg, you rubbed me the wrong way and I wasn't a fan. But over the past 12 months, you have really grown on me. You're precise, well spoken and although you are sometimes a little harsh, you are most often correct and in proper context with your responses.

irelandeb:

indeed he's one of the few voices of common sense on these forums

jw:

If you're going to argue with Romz, do your homework before you post. He gets it, and you can't teach common sense, you have to be born with it.

pete, linc & julie:

I can't say [any]thing else [than] that the ban was justified considering that you have an 'impressive' TOS history....

owilde:

The only thing worse than being talked about is *not* being talked about.

[DOC]

good idea romzburg but no, we can't do that at this time

it's a wishlist thing (been on my wishlist for 10 years)

[speed]

I think you should reconsider the 150 meter calibration of the axis zooka.Being this a internet game,realism and historical data sometimes prevents "most"people to properly use equipment.

If we could adjust the sight of the zook,then it would avoid all the complaints that for sure will come along,when released in the RA.Most will aim,shoot&hit nothing.

Equal sights for both zookas for the sake of balance,if one has 50 meters,let the other have it too.

Having the aiming point set to 150meters,without being able to adjust the aiming sight,already makes the experience frustrating and gives our enemies a better chance for survivability at close range.

Axis already are going to lose the sappers,IMHO a bad call really.Please review the range for the German zook,please!

This is not a rank,complaint or whine,just an opinion,shared by many players,believe me.

S!

Speed

[dotsie]

I think you should reconsider the 150 meter calibration of the axis zooka.Being this a internet game,realism and historical data sometimes prevents "most"people to properly use equipment.

If we could adjust the sight of the zook,then it would avoid all the complaints that for sure will come along,when released in the RA.Most will aim,shoot&hit nothing.

Equal sights for both zookas for the sake of balance,if one has 50 meters,let the other have it too.

Having the aiming point set to 150meters,without being able to adjust the aiming sight,already makes the experience frustrating and gives our enemies a better chance for survivability at close range.

Axis already are going to lose the sappers,IMHO a bad call really.Please review the range for the German zook,please!

This is not a rank,complaint or whine,just an opinion,shared by many players,believe me.

S!

Speed

NOOOOO! why not just put a fu*kin javlin in eh? The weapon will take skill and time to master. I was making 400m kills before beta came down in testing. If you want to play Arma2 go play Arma2.

[monsjoex]

I think you should reconsider the 150 meter calibration of the axis zooka.Being this a internet game,realism and historical data sometimes prevents "most"people to properly use equipment.

If we could adjust the sight of the zook,then it would avoid all the complaints that for sure will come along,when released in the RA.Most will aim,shoot&hit nothing.

Equal sights for both zookas for the sake of balance,if one has 50 meters,let the other have it too.

Having the aiming point set to 150meters,without being able to adjust the aiming sight,already makes the experience frustrating and gives our enemies a better chance for survivability at close range.

Axis already are going to lose the sappers,IMHO a bad call really.Please review the range for the German zook,please!

This is not a rank,complaint or whine,just an opinion,shared by many players,believe me.

S!

Speed

If you put it to 100 you gonna have people, who don't know wtf they do, missing shots at 50 and 150m...

So how is changing the aiming sight gonna help it? You still have the loop wich this game has in contrary to games like cod.

You won't be able to kill tanks at 200m anymore because the sight will block out the tank. I say keep it at 150. Panzershreck got more penetration and a wider angle so it will even out.

Edited August 12, 2011 by monsjoex

[DOC]

@speedbird

If we did that to the Schrek there would be no target in the picture' date=' it would be hidden by the shield[/quote']