6pdr vs. Tiger

[bronco69]

Distance 700m

Set up Tiger frontal to 6 pdr

aim for turret

2nd round degunned the Tiger

all rounds penetrate the armor

8th round kills #2 and #3

every round went in very accurate

low dispersion

tried that multiple times. always works

-------------------------------------

Spawn S76 + 50mm PAK

Distance 700m

Set up frontal to 50mm PAK

aim for turret and the "nipples" below the turret

all rounds bounce. no penetration at all

lots of dispersion. aimed for turret and suddenly some rounds hit the ground in front of tank or almost track although i aim for turret

Edited August 21, 2011 by bronco69

[bronco69]

Spawn Tiger + M1 ATG

700m distance

Set up Tiger frontal to M1 ATG

aim for turret

10th round degunned the Tiger

about 50% of all rounds penetrate the armor

15th round kills #2

20th round kills #3

same dispersion like the 50mm PAK

[monsjoex]

So?

m1/6pounder has more penetration than the pak38..

[firebugs]

So?

m1/6pounder has more penetration than the pak38..

not 100mm @ 700m. Not even at 500m.

[monsjoex]

not 100mm @ 700m. Not even at 500m.

Only need 80% for spall?

80mm.

[monsjoex]

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/guns/57-mm.asp

m1/6pounder penetrates 70mm at 1000m

[doch]

As always, Bronco is uninformed and does not understand what he is doing.

Firsty, he does not know if the rounds penetrated- that information is not available to the players, and kills caused by spall is just as possible and much more liklely.

Secondly, there is more to this than just spall.

The game works so, that any round that reaches within 80& of penetration will generate spall and thus have a chance to kill crew. Additionally, there is dispersion, which does not only concern left/right, but also high/low. If you think a bit about high/low, you will know that each shot has different energy, just as in RL. The difference in dispersion in this game will add or retract up to 5%.

So, knowing this, which has been confirmed by CRS many times, we can calculate the limit of which any given round will have a chance to kill vrew though spall.

A round that penetrates 80mm at say 700m hitting 100mm armor will do what?

In some cases it will do nothing, because the dispersion "said" low energy shot, so the round will do only 76mm penetration, and thus not reach the spall limit. The next shot will penetrate 84mm and thus cause spall and possible kill crew.

Looking at the m1´s penetration, its about 78mm at 700m, 30 degree. The tiger armor is flat, so if we convert those 30 degree to 90, we get around 97mm.

Now, this is roughly the default penetration. Now we add the 5% dispersion, because some shots will penetrate more than the default penetration, and we get 102mm (5% added).

Then we look at spall, and how thick the armor needs to be to be sure the round doesent penetrate. Ohh, that would be around 125mm armor.

So, to be absolutely sure you will be safe from the m1/6pdr frontally at optimal angle and against the turret at 700m, you need to have at least 125mm armor. Does the tiger have 125mm turret armor frontally?

No, so should the m1 have a chance to kill crew by generating spall?

I think so. The hull will be even more at risk.

You need to understand these things before complaining.

[bronco69]

As always, Bronco is uninformed and does not understand what he is doing.

Firsty, he does not know if the rounds penetrated- that information is not available to the players, and kills caused by spall is just as possible and much more liklely.

Secondly, there is more to this than just spall.

The game works so, that any round that reaches within 80& of penetration will generate spall and thus have a chance to kill crew. Additionally, there is dispersion, which does not only concern left/right, but also high/low. If you think a bit about high/low, you will know that each shot has different energy, just as in RL. The difference in dispersion in this game will add or retract up to 5%.

So, knowing this, which has been confirmed by CRS many times, we can calculate the limit of which any given round will have a chance to kill vrew though spall.

A round that penetrates 80mm at say 700m hitting 100mm armor will do what?

In some cases it will do nothing, because the dispersion "said" low energy shot, so the round will do only 76mm penetration, and thus not reach the spall limit. The next shot will penetrate 84mm and thus cause spall and possible kill crew.

Looking at the m1´s penetration, its about 78mm at 700m, 30 degree. The tiger armor is flat, so if we convert those 30 degree to 90, we get around 97mm.

Now, this is roughly the default penetration. Now we add the 5% dispersion, because some shots will penetrate more than the default penetration, and we get 102mm (5% added).

Then we look at spall, and how thick the armor needs to be to be sure the round doesent penetrate. Ohh, that would be around 125mm armor.

So, to be absolutely sure you will be safe from the m1/6pdr frontally at optimal angle and against the turret at 700m, you need to have at least 125mm armor. Does the tiger have 125mm turret armor frontally?

No, so should the m1 have a chance to kill crew by generating spall?

I think so. The hull will be even more at risk.

You need to understand these things before complaining.

Funny

I have 2 accounts up and can hear if a round penetrates or not

I hear audio of the 6pdr account ... and the audio of the Tiger account

[Voodoo1]

This thread should be probably closed for now, till facts are found.

[Kizmet]

It was closed before it was opened. Consider the source.

[bronco69]

tried at 1k distance

3rd round of 6pdr degunned Tiger

[bronco69]

8th round killed #3 in Tiger

at 1k distance

[bronco69]

next round

1k distance

1st hit on Tiger degunned him

4th hit #3 dead

5th hit #2 dead

[DOC]

A tank (even a tiger) can be degunned at any range where enough energy is imparted to the barrel. No tank barrels are invulnerable to the kinetic energy of the 6pdr. shot ... nor should they be.

Additionally, we do not find the 6pdr. rounds to be overperforming according to the data we used to create them, although it is a given that your opinion may not agree with that data.

since this is not actually a report of a bug, but simply a matter of disagreement over how well the 6 pdr. should perform against the Tiger, it is not really nessesary for this thread to remain open in the bug reporting forum simply for ease of arguing about it's performance.