Elegance's Axis Gun Killing Guide

[shdwnoob]

Sad work. It explains why that first darn camo gun just will not die unless its to sustained tank fire from multiple directions.

MANY people would complain as they unsub about the ATG model - IF THEY KNEW...but this has been moved to Bug Reports to help 'hide it' I guess.

That no-headed PAK is a straight cheat/feature for the Axis against all tanks - I'd spawn that over an 88 and have better results based not on skill, not on caliber or ability to hide in deployment...just wins based upon CRS willing to have a hidden weakness in the game.

Publish this on the Wiki and the customers will get upset...and I bet the priorities change. Keep it quiet enough that only grognards know the real reason...and the newbies will just wonder why their skills honed in Afghan hills and Iraqi wadi's don't work.

Realism...game play... this is /neither/. This is: It isn't openly known how much it sukxs and so we prefer that it not be openly known so that...no one will complain...and then we will change it...later...

FML. just delete me. I'm disappointed that CRS could let the game have this. so write me a sad panda face.

[chiapet]

Sad work. It explains why that first darn camo gun just will not die unless its to sustained tank fire from multiple directions.

MANY people would complain as they unsub about the ATG model - IF THEY KNEW...but this has been moved to Bug Reports to help 'hide it' I guess.

That no-headed PAK is a straight cheat/feature for the Axis against all tanks - I'd spawn that over an 88 and have better results based not on skill, not on caliber or ability to hide in deployment...just wins based upon CRS willing to have a hidden weakness in the game.

Publish this on the Wiki and the customers will get upset...and I bet the priorities change. Keep it quiet enough that only grognards know the real reason...and the newbies will just wonder why their skills honed in Afghan hills and Iraqi wadi's don't work.

Realism...game play... this is /neither/. This is: It isn't openly known how much it sukxs and so we prefer that it not be openly known so that...no one will complain...and then we will change it...later...

FML. just delete me. I'm disappointed that CRS could let the game have this. so write me a sad panda face.

No you wouldnt, current K/D ratio is 1.9 the 88 is 2.1 so youd still do better to spawn the 88.

[GOPHUR]

Wow. That is some awesome testing. We probably can;t do too much without a rebuild of the art for these but I'll take a look at them tomorrow. Again. DOC has done this countless times but that level of testing really shows that the damage model names are just screwed up.

Still, awesome testing.

[GOPHUR]

Elegance can you send that to me as a pdf?

I really need this done for all guns.

[caydel]

+1 for awesome response to this post.

Also, shows that if we hand the Rats testing data on a silver platter, it makes it easier for them to fix bugs given the somewhat cramped number of man hours available to them...

Since I have it handy, URL for download of that PDF: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6715356/ATGKillSpots.pdf

Edited September 15, 2011 by caydel

[GOPHUR]

I started with the Flak 30 since that is the one that is oldest. I can confirm that in the data files the names of the objects match the names of the art files. And the names of the art objects are on the right objects.

I'll focus on the gunner head.

Heads are heads in art not legs. Heads are named right in data BUT when you shoot the gunner head you get a legs message. The damage logs even say that the damage was applied to the head.

So it appears in this case that the only problem is you're getting the wrong message.

I'll run my own test:

Test 1

Attacker - US Rifleman

Target - Flak 30 Gunner Deployed

Shoot: Gunner Head

Message: Crew member 2 hit in legs

Logs: damaged gunhead

Result: Took 7 hits to kill (thickness 0.4)

Shoot: Gunner Torso

Message: Crew member 2 hit in torso

Logs: damaged guntorso

Result: Took 2 shots to kill (thickness 1.2)

Shoot: Gunner arms

Message: Crew member 2 hit in head

Logs: damaged gunarms

Result: took 1 shot to kill (thickness 1.0)

Shoot: Gunner legs

Message: Crew memger 2 hit in arms

Logs: damaged gunlegs

Result: took 4 shots to kill (thickness 1.0)

A couple things stick out.

1) The messages are wrong a lot.

2) arms and legs seem to have different amounts of damage needed. This could be testing inconsistency so I'll run this test 4 times on the arms. It could be differences in the damage levels of the components so I'll check that out. It could be something else all together. We'll see.

Test 2-5

Shoot arms and see how many shots to kill. Perform first 2 tests same angle as test 1 and last 2 tests from varied angles.

2:kill 1 shot

3:kill 1 shot

4:kill 1 shot

5:kill 1 shot

Looks like I'll need a coder to look at this further. I want to concentrate on the Flak 30 Gunner because if we find that one we might find the others.

This is honestly a tough one to get prioritized but I'll see what I can do.

[GOPHUR]

As a side note my US Rifleman just died when a flak30 deployed on top of him!

Thanks for the pdf link.

[caydel]

Shoot: Gunner Head

Message: Crew member 2 hit in legs

Logs: damaged gunhead

Result: Took 7 hits to kill (thickness 0.4)

I am sure you noticed this as you wrote it, but it wasn't marked in your 'things that stick out' list. The head shouldn't take 7 hits...

Assuming that the logs are correct, what you have now is:

gunhead: 7 hits

guntorso: 2 hits

gunarms: 1 hit

gunlegs: 4 shots

It should be more like:

gunhead: 1 hit

guntorso: 2 hits

gunarms: 3 hit

gunlegs: 4 shots

I figure you probably realize all this, but just highlighting it in the 1% chance you didn't. For the record, fixing this would be a definite boost to the inf game, as it's currently much more difficult than it should be to kill an ATG as inf.

[AHWULF]

Looking at this right now. Bugged me for years as a player too, usually I shoot every atg in the butt.

[AHWULF]

I think this is a right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing problem. The code that determines what you hit in your client and the code that gets that value from the host and determines what to damage combined with the order the hittable components are defined can get confused.

Fixing this will be interesting :-) Sorry to break your nice Killing Guide...

[GOPHUR]

This should be going into beta this week. Nice work Wulf. Also thanks for the guide. It was the needle in the hay stack we needed.

[elegance]

Some needles still left. have a look please at the misaligned damage and visual models on pak38.

[AHWULF]

They're not misaligned, most of the moving parts of the crew are separate damageable components which exceed the limit of 4 so many of them are ignored and with the bug I am fixing the end result was unpredictable. What I have to do is figure out how to combine all those hands and hips and things into 4 virtual components. The 6lber and 57mm have the same or similar issues. It's the articulated crew models for these that cause the problems.

[GOPHUR]

Yeah these are aligned pretty good.

[sarchet]

Great guide - but you can just sneak up and drop a 'nade... then they don't have time to despawn AND enemy forces can't pick out what direction you attacked from.

[GOPHUR]

I redid my test and am calling this fixed. This could really stand an test audit though. Maybe in Open Test we can do that. Going to sticky this as a reminder to do that.