Supply Reduction Issues?

[kamel]

If the supply cut makes inf work that much more important... then surely its time for infantry weapons to be scaled according to effectiveness? Similar to the way tanks, ATG's, etc are done.

It's not like they're identical. Far from it.

So if a Matilda or Char b1 bis is more expensive, and therefore in lower numbers than Pz4 and pz3's... surely the infantry should be similar.

[mrcheapydd]

More 88s will die being placed then 25mm and 47mm, 30 Pak36 is required due to the fact that it can't just shoot at the turret and kill the gunner.

Less tanks for Axis too which is fine, the problem is that they need a few more A13s .

[Kilemall]

If the supply cut makes inf work that much more important... then surely its time for infantry weapons to be scaled according to effectiveness? Similar to the way tanks, ATG's, etc are done.

It's not like they're identical. Far from it.

So if a Matilda or Char b1 bis is more expensive, and therefore in lower numbers than Pz4 and pz3's... surely the infantry should be similar.

I don't think they have ever put combat values on the infantry.

I did an infantry point system once upon a time, I think it would work with their armor and air valuations.

[hick]

Moved this to the bug forum for Rat attention.

[bronco69]

Best change for a long time by cutting supply about 50%

80% is a bit harsh imo

but allied players now threatening CRS again to unsub if they wont reset it ??? lol

remember that we (LW) had to live with the borked 109s for 3 months ?? just to name 1 example

this campaign is a blast so far. overall less tanks which is imo good. infantry has become more important than ever. tactics are now coming in as main objective... not like before where allies only spawned tanks ... tanks ... tanks ... tanks ...

testing this setting for 1 campaign is good. an intermission wont give you a good enough overview about it.

[groog]

If your squad plays tanks, and you have more squaddies than tanks, what do you do? Play a different game? Play a part of the game you don't like?

[branko]

If your squad plays tanks' date=' and you have more squaddies than tanks, what do you do? Play a different game? Play a part of the game you don't like?[/quote']

Different issue than the OP.

The OP needs looking at if numbers appear to be so out of whack.

Unless someone is going to side switch ... or dual account ... and do a rear-town survey - And that is not a quick and easy job - then either DOC needs to turn up and say, "ppffftttt, it's all good" or the BIG SPREADSHEET needs a re-airing so that we can all crawl through it.

On the Rare Kit issue (groogs post quoted above).

This is going to be a real problem. Long gone are the days when we accepted it and drove tanks up from rear towns to (over) compensate.

Many players do seem to play for - and with - a particular piece of kit. If that piece of kit is made too rare, then there is a problem.

Yeah, the enjoyment of the many probably should out weigh the preferences of the few ... But that's a tough call to make when it's cash-money on the line.

Some tough choices for RATs to make. I'm in the great-change camp, myself - there is (almost) always a rifle - but I understand why many are not so happy.

[pictboy3]

I'm happy with the supply reduction in general, I'm not happy that what was billed as a 50% across the board reduction seems to have hit the french disproportionately hard.

[dubane]

The french brgs are totally undermanned - not just in atgs but armour also, an inf brg gets a total of 6 pieces of armour, yet an axis inf brg gets 8 232's not counting the pzs too.

Im thinking someone at CRS is very axis biased or needs to go back to school to learn mathmatics. Sort this out fast - the allied side and playerbase are getting frustrated with nothing in supply to fight with. I mean come on 5 x 47mm atgs axis get 10 88s and 30 paks.

S! Frustrated Dubane

[monsjoex]

-edit-

Edited September 9, 2011 by monsjoex

[monsjoex]

British:

French:

German:

[monsjoex]

So conclusions to make:

British:

Lost 10 more grenadiers than other sides.

Lost 10 fewer small AA guns than other sides.

Lost 60 atg's, 20 less than a 50% decrease.

In overall armor gets reduction of 50%

French:

Loses 2-3 sa34's fewer than a 50% decrease.

Lost 20 sa37's, a 50% decrease

Lost 7 more panhards than 50% decrease

Lost 8 more R35's than 50% decrease

Lost 3-4 more H39's than 50% decrease

Lost 1-2 more chars than 50% decrease

In overall armor gets a reduction of 61%

German:

Loses 12-13 pak36's fewer than 50% decrease.

Lost 30 88's, a (almost) 50% decrease.

Lost 3 more 38t's and 1-2 4d's than 50% decrease.

Loses 2 stugs and 12 232's fewer than 50% decrease

In overall armor gets reduction of 45%

The strength of the axis armor doesn't really change though, only the 12 232's are excessive. The 4d/38t changes are traded for the stugs.

Edited September 9, 2011 by monsjoex

[bigrow]

Thanks for posting the numbers mons.

I like how the brit grenadier numbers get nerfed, while lmgs conveniently only get a 33% drop

And yes, the french got well and truly shafted on this one.

10 88s in an infantry flag to deal with 6 'tanks'...of which only 2 can't be killed by ATR easily lol.

FWIW i'm not accusing CRS of bias. I think they may listen to the axis whine brigade too much, and there certainly seems to be some bad decisions here, but i'm sure they will rectify them soon.

[monsjoex]

Well as a note yes: french numbers get tweaked a lot.

Most changing supplylist if you ask me.

Its just because its so different.

british is simple with only 3 tanks and 1 atg.

[DOC]

As of this morning, rifles in all infantry brigades were boosted 20%

All ATGs with the exception of the German 88 and French 47 were matched because apparently the variations that were meant to accomodate the differances between countries caused too much concern.

All infantry and armour brigades now have identical numbers of tier 0 "base" ATGs.

No other changes are planned.

[monsjoex]

Why did french lose so much armour DOC?

Lost 7 more panhards than 50% decrease

Lost 8 more R35's than 50% decrease

Lost 3-4 more H39's than 50% decrease

Lost 1-2 more chars than 50% decrease

74 tank-ish units for them now while 50% would mean 95. Tweaks to supply are of course needed but this is quite a lot.

[stankyus]

So conclusions to make:

British:

Lost 10 more grenadiers than other sides.

Lost 10 fewer small AA guns than other sides.

Lost 60 atg's, 20 less than a 50% decrease.

In overall armor gets reduction of 50%

French:

Loses 2-3 sa34's fewer than a 50% decrease.

Lost 20 sa37's, a 50% decrease

Lost 7 more panhards than 50% decrease

Lost 8 more R35's than 50% decrease

Lost 3-4 more H39's than 50% decrease

Lost 1-2 more chars than 50% decrease

In overall armor gets a reduction of 61%

German:

Loses 12-13 pak36's fewer than 50% decrease.

Lost 30 88's, a (almost) 50% decrease.

Lost 3 more 38t's and 1-2 4d's than 50% decrease.

Loses 2 stugs and 12 232's fewer than 50% decrease

In overall armor gets reduction of 45%

The strength of the axis armor doesn't really change though, only the 12 232's are excessive. The 4d/38t changes are traded for the stugs.

All that works well Mons if the whole division is attacking another whole division. Unfortunately that just is not happening 99% of the time.

[canukplf]

As of this morning, rifles in all infantry brigades were boosted 20%

All ATGs with the exception of the German 88 and French 47 were matched because apparently the variations that were meant to accomodate the differances between countries caused too much concern.

All infantry and armour brigades now have identical numbers of tier 0 "base" ATGs.

No other changes are planned.

current brit list includes for INF brigades

1 matty

3 a13

10 vickers

current french INF brigade list

1 b1bis

1 S35

1 H39

1 R35

2 panhards

Current axis INF brigade list

8 232s

2 stugs

2 PzIVD

1 PzIIIF

1 Pz38T

1 pzIIC

LMAO........

So, Brits have 4 tanks vs. 6 (15 - 15 overall.........but vikki as an equal.......please)

Not counting 232, pz2 and vikki, even though a 232 in the right hads will own a A13

Fench 5 vs 6 once again not counting 232, pz2 and R35. (6- 15 overall)

Frikkin ridiculous.

[DOC]

All these numbers are experrimental to some degree, and constantly monitored and tweaked if it becomes nessesary. Lots of people have very diffeent opinions what they should be, and most do not agree with each other. Drawing the line that gets drawn could be argued 15 different ways from Sunday, there is no "right" answer there is just everyones opinion. We don't change things just because someone has an opinion. We hacve to look for solid reasons and have a clear idea of what those things are seeking to do for the game, not the individual. Without the game working as it should, individuals would have no game to play in the end.

For example, the numbers posted in this thread do not represent the numbers as they are today. It's a constant process of refinement to get them to where they represent what ALL criteria suggest is the best compromise, and that means that most opinions not taking all the criteria into consideration will naturally differ from what we arrive at.

Germans have 88s, no one else does. French have the high performance 47, no one else does. British have the very flexible 2 pdr. that is in some respects superior to both. No one else does. 232's and Panhards are both scout cars but they function totally differently in game and have totally different roles. they are not both effective at the same things. Vickers are tanks but they perform a scout car role, no one else has that but the Germans have the PzKw.IIc which is kind of like that, but better. Players tend to insist on "everything the same for all 3 countries" and they struggle to understand why we can't really do that (because the equipment is not the same) AND balance the game at the same time. Variations MUST exist to accomodate those differances.

If anyone wants to form the perception that we do any of this to be unfair to one country or side or the other, they will. It won't be true however, because we don't favour ANY country or side fighting in the game. We want all of them to have a fair chance and to enjoy themselves, and that is what the game needs to work.

Playing favourites is not what we do, because that would never work and most people can grasp probably why that is.

[stankyus]

current brit list includes for INF brigades

1 matty

3 a13

10 vickers

current french INF brigade list

1 b1bis

1 S35

1 H39

1 R35

2 panhards

Current axis INF brigade list

8 232s

2 stugs

2 PzIVD

1 PzIIIF

1 Pz38T

1 pzIIC

LMAO........

So, Brits have 4 tanks vs. 6 (15 - 15 overall.........but vikki as an equal.......please)

Not counting 232, pz2 and vikki, even though a 232 in the right hads will own a A13

Fench 5 vs 6 once again not counting 232, pz2 and R35. (6- 15 overall)

Frikkin ridiculous.

LOL !!!

1 b1bis

1 S35

1 H39

1 R35

That means the Tiger is not going to be the only rare AFV on the battlefield.

That means only 7 French players are going to enjoy tanking...

IMHO if this is the way its going to be, might as well drop the brigade spawning and reset the town supply like we had before so atleast you had to the option to drive up tanks.

I have to tell you though if not they should allow for the HQ's that we use to overstock brigades now, just be allowed to overstock with no percentage limit. The only limitations would be if the overstock brigade was moved.

[DOC]

Those numbers do not represent the evolution of the change. The numbers in the post directly above represent an infantry brigade and we have made infantry brigades almost free of tanks, as anti-tank wepaons. This was because the majority of players wanted to see how infantry brigades without tanks would be to play.

Have a look at them on Friday afternoon for example. No great disparity exists that we can find. Yeah, the lists are not all the same but they do look pretty fair.