FEEDBACK - RPAT Testing

[GOPHUR]

Use this thread for feedback on RPAT testing. Please be familiar with these weapons from testing or combat experience in beta before posting.

[fxmmauser]

The panzershrek is perfect no complaints its now easier to use and aim. (do not change anything about it pls sight is good now)

-It's impossible to flame/blow up or kill the gunner on a sherman by hitting the rear at least twice, I wonder if this is realistic? In BF 1942(kinda arcade game) tanks will always blow up with one rear shot I'm sure there will always a good number of this players attempting to do the same rear shot and expect a kill at least by the second hit (CRS should take this in account).

The bazooka is somewhat more difficult to hit tanks at medium range 90m-140m the tank is almost near the end of the sight I believe it should be slightly adjusted.

In the ammo category 4 rounds seems like the right number you will have 4 attempts to kill a tank and even an unskillful player will have a higher chance to kill one than he currents have with sapper, in the end the learning curve to kill a tank as Inf is reduced at no cost of the game realism.

It took me between 1.25 - 2.5 rounds to kill an enemy tank, sometimes a second hit was necessary in order to kill the gunner.

I would just request that the british and french full armor list be moved to the town where the stress tests occurred to see how would the rest of allied armor(Churchill, crusader, matty, char, s35, h39 ....) hold against the panzershrek.

Conclusion

There is still much room for a tank survival having a notion of your surroundings and enemy position with the help of your commander scanning the horizon with his binos and keeping a distance over 100m on a ground that presents few hiding spots for EI will still make a tank almost invincible to raw infantry.

Overall this weapons are looking great and will have some fans GJ!

[fxmmauser]

The bazooka is somewhat more difficult to hit tanks at medium range 90m-140m the tank is almost near the end of the sight I believe it should be slightly adjusted.

I have retested both the bazooka and panzershrek with more measurable distances and both anti tank weapons are very accurate and easy to aim at 150m for me both seem to be a finish at least on the aspect of firing/sights & hitting a target.

[GOPHUR]

Thanks fxm for the feedback. I need to play with them some more this week but I agree, they're probably as right on as they can be without live server real use feedback.

[DOC]

A note on the new BACKBLAST effects:

We know that there is an issue with spawning on the second floor and it not working until you have reached the ground floor, not sure what that is yet but we're looking at it. Fairly minor in that as soon as you leave your second floor spawn to hunt tanks they do work as intended, but anyway:-

We tried to code it so that at ranges 0-3m from a wall behind you, you can be killed or injured by backblast. We wanted to make it so that to be killed you had to fire several rounds without moving to a safer distance, but as it turned out 0->3m for 100% to 0% damage is a pretty steep sliding scale and the shooter does not see much variety, even though it is there.

We'll see what the feedback says. We could make the damage lighter at 0m range from wall. that would make all ranges to 3m less likely to hurt you. You might never be killed from your own weapon, which is probably what would be more popular.

Feedback to the shooter of what is happening is still awfully lacking and we're trying to figure out what we can do about that without a bunch of new code because we are just totally out of time to add more and experiment with it.

SO PLEASE TEST THE FUGG OUT OF THIS AND TELL UWS IF IT IS TOO MUCH AS IS, about all we can do at this stage is reduce it's lethality and that's it.

[sssnake]

Used the Bazooka and Shrek in Beta, both to me were historically accurate, easy to use. Only question is effectiveness-the Shrek made 1st and 2nd rd kills fairly easily, while the Bazooka seemed to be much less effective in game-4 side hits Or 4 rear hits to a StuG3 did not kill the vehicle. I got a kill, but the engine was still running both times, though smoking. I sure wouldn 't run in Front of it either time.

Shrek on the other hand, it was K-kill both times i used it in the Beta and very effective against AI's as well.

Bazooka against Ai's was again less effective, taking 3 shots for a tower vs 2 for the Shrek. relative effectiveness?

I tried to make sure i aimed exactly the same, but anything's possible.

[DOC]

shreck round much bigger boom, and more effective as a tank killer compared to bazooka, historically this is both to be expected and we try to make it so in game while not being "unfair" hope you understand what a clusterfugg that is to do to everyones satisfaction

[shdwnoob]

Real "Backblast" is painful burns and often permanent scars + you are out of the fight for skingraft surgery. But this type of penalty is not modeled much in our game except sapper charges you placed yourself/your own grenades.

So not a must have unless: You have the same ear ringing effect and use the sapper pain audio and atp drop from your own sapper charge too close/grenade. That would be consistent usage throughout game.

Contra argument: PIAT wont have any. Not sure if non-grognards would understand why (i.e. firing mechanism).

Also, mix your battery wires or other dumbfark moves (there's one in every platoon, let alone brigade etc.) and you will fire into the wall in front of you, or straight up in the sky, etc.

I would default to easy and fun and consistent. Prolly means no damage per my own analysis, but my grognard side wants damage.

[DOC]

There will be damage, even death under circumstances where the wall is right behind you (standing next to it) ... the "concussion effect" we have to go along with the injury event isn't as good as we'd ultimately like, but we will improve it as much as we can, and eventually maybe build a new one with some better feedback to the shooter what is going on.

For now, the shooter might injure themselves, and is capable of killing themselves in some cases. PIATs of course (when we finish them) will not do this.

[GOPHUR]

Oh it came out perfect! Just tested the new release (.47). Nice work Doc and Martini!

[fxmmauser]

Got this Ode INTERNAL ERROR 1:

Assertion "bNormalizationResult" Failed in ../../include\ode/odemath.h:314

It happen when enter the world(0.46 practice offline) with US anti tank aimed at opposite window with RPAT on the second floor of inf barrack, then click to shoot and got the ode error freezing the game.

[Di11on]

I trust that the 'schrek and the bazooka inflict historically accurate damage... however, what about the effect on balance.

Removing 3 satchels from both sides (1 kill per satchel on all vehicles) and you replace it with:

Germans: Schrek = 4 rounds, 1 kill per round

Americans: Bazooka: 0.25 kills per round

I hate sappers and think the sooner they are gone the better (1 kill per stachel on anything, to a satchel a Panhard is the same as a Tiger )

However, I'm concerned about the greater effectiveness of the schrek and the impact it will have on the game.

[Di11on]

I've posted this on another thread before I saw this one...

The Bazooka crosshairs look very cartoonish to me. I was quite taken aback when I saw them first. Apart from that - everything is great (apart from possible side balance concerns?)

[DOC]

Germans: Schrek = 4 rounds, 1 kill per round

Americans: Bazooka: 0.25 kills per round

I don't believe this is an established baseline. Myself and most players I encountered in controlled testing situations obtained quite a different set of data.

Have you compiled that data from your own (or anyone elses reported) controlled testing, where did those numbers come from ?

PS: the bazooka gunsight might look cartoonish to you but have you looked at a real bazooka gunsight ? We used that as our guide to creating this one.