Scoring tests

[thief]

Did some testing. Me flying 190. Squadie shooting a bofors at the FB.

2 major changes:

1. When you take a critical hit and crash - camera goes to 3rd person view - kill awarded even if you pull the plug at that point.

When you take a critical hit and and DON't crash - camera still 1st person view - no kill awarded if you pull the plug. So plug pullers get away with it still if they pull the plug before crashing, downside for them is we see the plane "floating away", but their stats are saved.

That includes flying on flames

Flying with 1 wing

Flying with KIA pilot

Pretty much what happens all the time.

2. Plink kills are gone. BUT WAIT that's not the main thing. It's not dependent on any timer. I took 3 hits (not critical) on 3 runs over FB, every time I crashed the plane within 15 seconds, every time bofors got NO KILL. Last run I even lost prop, still bofors did not get credit.

So this tells me the kill system is really messed up. You could crash your plane after the first hits and voila, no killer. I've seen it first hand flying to. Hit the ea bad, he goes in, no kill. At first I though "we'll someone else must have plinked him before".

First is a slight improvement but still not a fix for the problem. 2nd is a huge bug (NO WAY this can get to the live game)

Does the readme's "scoring basics now in but not working" mean that I don't have to worry about those things or are those features actually intended?

[petie]

Had this in vliss Yesterday, when af camped by infantry

Pilot kia from atr - no kiler awarded

Plane plinked on af i suicide into EI dropping bombs , they received no kill

Plane Blown up on AF to Shrek, pilot dead / plane on fire - they got kill

[DOC]

message me when you are online

if I'm on I want to do some testing

I cannot say exactly when I will be on, each day is a chaotic mass of things to get done, and the targets are always moving and the rules of engagement change every hour

[thief]

I'm online now for another ~2 hours

[GOPHUR]

Confirm plink kills broken, ticketed.

Test 1

• p1 german plane
  
• p2 allied inf
  
• p2 shoot p1
  
• p1 crashes
  
• p1 kia
  
• p2 does not get the kill
  

Expected functionality is that if you shoot a plane and they crash then you get awarded the kill if it happens within X seconds.

X seconds is broken, known issue, other bug.

[thief]

Ok, simple bug for the second thing. Good to know.

However for many people, including me, the first problem is much bigger. We HOPED this patch fixes and finally rewards players who play honestly. If kill credits are introduced the way I saw in the testing, NOTHING changes. Plug pullers stay plug pullers.

We absolutely need back the instant kill credit after critical damage has taken. Think about it, who cares about landing with one wing or burning plane to save stats. How often does it happen? Not often. Get rid of it when you can't get around fixing the problem otherwise.

The only way you can keep the current system is when you register a critical hit and whenever AFTER the crit is taken, someone looses connection - kill credit is given. Right now it's after crashing, WHY OH WHY can't it be after crit is taken (like it used to be).

[GOPHUR]

I'll look at ti. AFAIk kills are always rewarded on despawn and there has never been a way around plug pullers.

What I probably can do is find a way to identify repeated plug pullers and do something to them.

What I can't do is detect plug pullers from the host. Is this really taht big an issue or are we seeing UFOs? How many plug pullers are out there?

What a pain in the ass for such a little grief to be a plug puller. Some people...

[Lithu]

I'll look at ti. AFAIk kills are always rewarded on despawn and there has never been a way around plug pullers.

What I probably can do is find a way to identify repeated plug pullers and do something to them.

What I can't do is detect plug pullers from the host. Is this really taht big an issue or are we seeing UFOs? How many plug pullers are out there?

What a pain in the ass for such a little grief to be a plug puller. Some people...

Plug pullers are a big issue for the airwar. You will lose, have lost, many subs because of this. It's silly, but it enrages people that "nothing" is done. Can you not make it that if someone is hit, and they lose connection, they will receive a kill credit against them no matter what?

[DOC]

Currently no, we cannot do that. The work to make that possible is taking second seat to getting scoring to work right, at all, without new work. Understand that when you yank the plug, there is nothing to work with regarding "scoring" your actions. You cease to exist.

PS: we don't even have current functionality yet, and host debugging is on going and urgent at the moment. Designing a way to process a player that no longer exists (as far as the host is concerned) is not possible at this moment in time. Most people probably think it's something simple, but as Gophur already hinted, it is not. Plug pulling is a total piss off partly because it removes the ability of the system to do ANYTHING with you as part of a punishment/reward process.

[thief]

1.I'll look at ti. AFAIk kills are always rewarded on despawn and there has never been a way around plug pullers.

2.What I probably can do is find a way to identify repeated plug pullers and do something to them.

3.What I can't do is detect plug pullers from the host. Is this really taht big an issue or are we seeing UFOs? How many plug pullers are out there?

4.What a pain in the ass for such a little grief to be a plug puller. Some people...

One at a time:

1. Before the bailing patch, whenever crit hit was made, kill was rewarded. Intermissions showed the crit message. I can find you a homemade video of it if you don't believe it.

2. OH PLEASE DO. Right now the plug pullers are known. GMs have busted them but you won't ban them will you? They are paying customers and you don't want to ban anyone anymore ... So basically you wont ban anyone and wont fix the BIGGEST ****ING CHEATING problem in the game that shouldn't even exist.

3. Can a host detect a crit on a plane? Can a host detect a connection loss from a player? Put these 2 together and think: 1 after the other=plug puller - how much more simple can it get?????????????????????????????

" Is this really that big an issue?"

Is this a serious question?

4. Yet those griefers are here, in every top100. Everyone knows who they are, because they were stupid enough to get caught. Every map. Pissing of honest players. And you let it go on because you absolutely have no clue whats going on in this (air)game anymore. This post shows how clueless you really are.

Bring back crit=Instantenious kill credit and lose the almost useless rtb system we have right now. How many times do you think one rtbs with one wing??? or flaming plane??? And think how much forum/game hate you can save with it.

[GOPHUR]

1) Ticketed those for a look Thief. You're right on the immediate transport of the kill message. That's why we see inf killed messages in beta when the guy is still crawling around. He's GONNA die but not dead yet.

Not sure how we send those and take them away on RTBs.

2) You must have more intimate knowledge of the GMs than I do. I don;t believe you bluntly. But I believe the issue needs resolution.

3) No.

4) Thanks. You're my 100th post read today! I'm at ticket number 6000. What I need is players who can inform me of issues and help me find solution. If all you've got is piss and vinegar I don't have time for you.

[bogol]

3) No.

To which part of his question did you answer No? Just to make sure, are you saying that host cannot detect a player that has lost connection, i.e. said player cannot be identified AFTER the moment his connection is lost?

[Tigger6]

Just to make it clear- the issue is not that pulling plug should be critical damage. This can be hard to do, I understand that. The issue is that pulling the plug *after* critical damage has been awarded can still result in no kill being awarded if the target doesn't properly despawn. What side does the check if the target's mission ended in RTB?

I know this is unlikely, but wouldn't it suffice to change the mission result code after pulling the plug to MIA be a sufficient solution? A mission that has been ended by disco has "RTB" as mission result. If it's only the code that is being checked to prevent kills on airplanes that RTB, this should be the solution.

[docattak]

GOPHER

Am I correct in assuming that you have a test server, programmed to allow tests on variable changes and 'incidents' etc.etc. (no real planes, armies etc.) - i.e. a simulator. This would be normal so that you could create a crit and pull the plug situation or almost any other situation and try to deal with it. As an ex-games developer I always had a test rig running alongside the current rig, with extra routines for simulating anything that was needed. Perhaps this is not possible here. I know the the smallest things can lead to an amount of work that a non-games programmer would never believe

[Lithu]

1) Ticketed those for a look Thief. You're right on the immediate transport of the kill message. That's why we see inf killed messages in beta when the guy is still crawling around. He's GONNA die but not dead yet.

Not sure how we send those and take them away on RTBs.

2) You must have more intimate knowledge of the GMs than I do. I don;t believe you bluntly. But I believe the issue needs resolution.

3) No.

4) Thanks. You're my 100th post read today! I'm at ticket number 6000. What I need is players who can inform me of issues and help me find solution. If all you've got is piss and vinegar I don't have time for you.

I guess what we have a problem understanding is that in the beta when someone pulls the plug, we would see a message stating that person had alt-f4'ed. Also, when you would kill someone, you would receive the message, instantly, that you killed so-and-so. If you can receive a message stating that someone "pulled the plug", also that someone has been killed, why can't this be tracked when you score a critical and they decide to "pull"? You guys are underestimating how annoyed people get with this in the air.

[binky]

Cache the critical damage on the shooter's client. When the shooter despawns, reconcile the victim's sortie with the cached result on the shooter's client. Of course it can't be an immediate compare, but you get the idea.

Edited November 15, 2011 by binky

[DOC]

We don't underestimate it at all. We just _can't_ post despawn score process someone who didn't despawn. A despawn is required to process score (even a death or a crash into the ground is a despawn if you ever really thought about it, that's why you have to click "ok" to exit the gameworld even when you die) ... pulling the plug kills all processes related to you as a login. Changing that would be a large amount of work and rebuilding, because it goes so deep into how the host/client relationship exists.

I get what you are saying Binky but that's a rewrite of rather large proportions compared to how it is actually processed here (the current client/host cannot do that kind of thing at all) and in reality, I know how much other stuff the guys have to write that is far more critical than this is. It's just prioritization, and it's a beatch.

[binky]

I assumed stats were stored in a distinct database accessed via csr and could be manipulated outside the game.

Ah well, doesn't bother me a whole lot personally, so not thinking too hard on it.

[GOPHUR]

To which part of his question did you answer No? Just to make sure' date=' are you saying that host cannot detect a player that has lost connection, i.e. said player cannot be identified AFTER the moment his connection is lost?[/quote']

No, the host is not notified by the client when you disconnect so it assumes you're just lagging out until you've gone on long enough and then it just kills your connection. Since your kills haven't been resolved there's nothing for the host to resolve.

[GOPHUR]

Just to make it clear- the issue is not that pulling plug should be critical damage. ... The issue is that pulling the plug *after* critical damage has been awarded can still result in no kill being awarded if the target doesn't properly despawn.

Understood. This is also an issue with INF in reverse.

I know this is unlikely' date=' but wouldn't it suffice to change the mission result code after pulling the plug to MIA be a sufficient solution? A mission that has been ended by disco has "RTB" as mission result. If it's only the code that is being checked to prevent kills on airplanes that RTB, this should be the solution.[/quote']

Possibly but solutions aren't what we're after. Defning the problem (see above) is more important. Specifically though, no it probably wouldn't be fixable that way.

[Lithu]

No' date=' the host is not notified by the client when you disconnect so it assumes you're just lagging out until you've gone on long enough and then it just kills your connection. Since your kills haven't been resolved there's nothing for the host to resolve.[/quote']

I don't understand this. How is it that in beta can tell you when someone has alt-f4'ed?

[cavalier]

I don't understand this. How is it that in beta can tell you when someone has alt-f4'ed?

probably (and I don't really know) because Alt-F4 closes down the WWIIOL client application whereas a disconnect just stops all data packets being sent mid communication (ie and the client application is in effect still running not that the servers knows that).

[thief]

In the past, when crit was scored it was immediately recorded on the shooters computer and/or CS&R. The crit message showed it. People who pulled the plug after death had an RTb with killer still there.

What does it take to record the crit on host again? How much do you have to work to change back to the old system? Or to change into something in between (to allow for flaming planes to rtb like now).

[bogol]

Never gave scoring too much thought so if I am wrong please correct me.

A)So before we had a system where critical damage was immediately awarded to the killer and the info was stored on his side and passed straight to the host and crs (stats page).

B)Now we have a system where a kill is awarded at despawn of the critically damaged plane and the info about the damage is only stored on his end. If he drops connection that info is forever lost?

Two main questions about this:

1. Is the only reason for this change from system A) to system was to allow planes that were critically injured a chance to get RTB with no killer if they made it to a friendly AF?

2. Why is it not possible that the info about the critical damage is passed also to the host at the moment it occurs? Have it stored there, until a despawn hapens. If said de-spawn happens on a friendly AF, fair enough, ignore the critical damage and make that sortie as an RTB with no killer. If said despawn happens due to prolonged LAG (as in plug pulling, losing connection, chitty weather outside, dog ate my homework type of situation) then tough luck, said sortie will have a killer recorded against it.

The current system is funny in the sense that the potential thiefs (no not you thief, the pullers) are also made the policeman and at the same time sole whiteness. Killing the witness (plug pulling) is so clean then, as there will be almost no traces. Unless you were foolish enough to kill others prior to your antics with the connection.

[DOC]

no that isn't correct, that isn't how it used to work, your assumptions give you false expectations

it's pretty obvious we are aware of your concerns and that we would love to cater to them

at what point do you figure out that if it were as simple as you think it is, we would just do what you suggest ? You think we resist because we don't want to change this ?

come on, think about it for a moment, what would be better for us than fixing what is bugging you so much ?