Kill credit, but not dead

[chayne]

I have shot several ei and gotten a kill credit, just to have that ei kill me then go kill a few more people. Just now i was in game and was shot, and the shooter got the kill credit, but i went on to kill someone else before another player shot me.

[GOPHUR]

This is a war simulation and not an arcade shooter. You know this as you've been here for a while. One of the differences is that we use a military style vehicle kill system.

Kills are not deaths.

When you shoot a plane's wing off and the pilot parachutes to safety your high command awards you a kill for effectively removing that enemy (plane) from battle. You get to paint a hash on your cockpit wall.

For infantry this tends to translate a little odd and we're working on the presentation but the effect will be the same.

He got a kill on you because he mortally wounded you. The simulation looked at your bleed out rate and brain oxygen and a whole bunch of other factors and determined that if this we're real life and you couldn't spawn out then you were going to die. Or at minimum be critically wounded, out of the fight, in triage.

The enemy gets a kill on you.

Whether or not you actually die is irrelevant.

[uglyboy]

Luckly the kill credit on chat is just for intermissions ( i hope it still will be ) because it's very misleading, if there wasn't a kill credit you would check or make sure the target is dead, imagine you are a perfectly concealed sniper, get a kill credit on someone and relocate just to be shot by that same guy, or worse when you get a kill credit on a tank, and he just continue to fire HE shells and using machine guns ( not the hull one, the gunner one ) and that's just stupid, even if the gunner is badly injured he is still 100% functional apart form a slight reduced view. Or maybe kill credit on alive tank gunner is a bug alltogheter.

[chayne]

Ok Gophur is this something new? As you said i have played for a while and this has never been so noticeable. As INF you are either dead or you are not, there are not degrees of death. Very misleading.

Edited November 16, 2011 by chayne

[dotsie]

This is a war simulation and not an arcade shooter. You know this as you've been here for a while. One of the differences is that we use a military style vehicle kill system.

Kills are not deaths.

When you shoot a plane's wing off and the pilot parachutes to safety your high command awards you a kill for effectively removing that enemy (plane) from battle. You get to paint a hash on your cockpit wall.

For infantry this tends to translate a little odd and we're working on the presentation but the effect will be the same.

He got a kill on you because he mortally wounded you. The simulation looked at your bleed out rate and brain oxygen and a whole bunch of other factors and determined that if this we're real life and you couldn't spawn out then you were going to die. Or at minimum be critically wounded, out of the fight, in triage.

The enemy gets a kill on you.

Whether or not you actually die is irrelevant.

Theredoes seem to be a problem Gophur.

-Im seeing ei freezing (and kill message) after taking massive fatal damage. They hold for a few seconds then collapse into death animation.

-Im also seeing the same multi hits + kill message and the eis walking on as though damaged. The thing is the initial shots are multi LMG "poofs" or an ATR hit which is usually very fatal.

fwiw.

PS. sorry i forgot in the first instance when eis freeze they sometime just dissapear and not go to death animation.

Edited November 16, 2011 by dotsie

[GOPHUR]

OK dots I'll look for that. Actually, RAMP is in testing and he'll see it and he's the INF guy.

[chayne]

Anything new on this? The problem is still there, especially with rifles.

[mrblue]

Anything new on this? The problem is still there' date=' especially with rifles.[/quote']

Gonna have to get pics of hits and then the ei still standing there. otherwise 'its our problem because we dont have enough RAM' or some other excuse. The best is you hit them with a nice burst of lmg fire, see the hits, and then he shoots you like 3 seconds later or he just disappears or runs away..

[company0]

Gonna have to get pics of hits and then the ei still standing there. otherwise 'its our problem because we dont have enough RAM' or some other excuse. The best is you hit them with a nice burst of lmg fire' date=' see the hits, and then he shoots you like 3 seconds later or he just disappears or runs away..[/quote']

This is extremely useful information in the testing and bug center. Picture's wouldn't show much so you would actually need a video, but its a server side issue as acknowledged by CRS in another testing thread mentioning this type of bug. Read Before Bashing Please.

[marcus33]

TBH this thing has happened to me since I play this game.

Sometimes you get shot and you're bleeding slowly out while still alive, yet some guy gets the kill credit.

Happens more often with rifles of course.

[GOPHUR]

TBH this thing has happened to me since I play this game.

Sometimes you get shot and you're bleeding slowly out while still alive, yet some guy gets the kill credit.

Happens more often with rifles of course.

That is correct functionality. Kills do not equal deaths. He got a kill on you because you received a critical if not treated, mortal wound. The fact that you crawled around a bit more doesn't change the fact that you are a casualty of war and your getting a purple heart.

This reflects how kills are awarded in the military. Most arcade shooters have 1 to 1 k/d and we could do more to explain or show how we do ours but for now this is expected functionality.

[vasduten1]

I've also noticed this phenomenon, but not in the way Gophur stated. That's just game play to me, and expected.

I believe the complaints start rolling in when you effectively spackle an EI with a G43 or SMG, and they turn around and shoot you once and you die.

I'm talking half a magazine to the torso, and they shoot you back within 3-4 seconds after having their boiler room perfed many times. That's odd.

I have noticed that the G43s are less effective than the standard K98, (historically inaccurate as it may be,) but I don't think I'll ever meet someone who can withstand two medium to high velocity rifle rounds to the lungs and then shoot you back.

FWIW, I still prefer the K98 when creeping in search of eFRUs. EI still die rather quickly with one shot of THAT round. The 8mm was indeed potent, as was the Russian 7.62X54R. Very ouch.

Still, I will say this on the record: I don't like how an EI can stand there and take 12-15 rounds from my SMG before collapsing. Even the relatively "puny" 9mm parabellum is a pretty deadly round up close, and this game should reflect that. Hell, I don't see too many complaints about the .45ACP not doing it's job.

The 9mm was running at around 1240FPS, where the .45ACP was doing a good 930FPS. That's a considerable difference in velocity, but they tend to even out when the weight of the .45ACP projectile is considered.

Having said that, the SMGs and G43s need to be given a little more effective shock and killing power when hitting the torso. That's my Christmas wish.

Also, I haven't found and evidence as of yet to support the use of a less powerful 7.92X57IS round being used in ANY semi-auto rifle the Germans had at that time. Why would anyone design a limited production 8MM rifle that DIDN'T use the same ammo as a standard issue rifle? The Russians used the 7.62X54R in both the MN91/30 and the SVT40, and the US used the 30-.06 in Springfields as well as the very deadly M1 Garands.

I only mention this because I've heard quite a lot of talk about the G43s being nerfed down due to a "lighter" round being used for them during WWII. Ya know, can't believe what you hear...

Is it true? Why?

[GOPHUR]

I only mention this because I've heard quite a lot of talk about the G43s being nerfed down due to a "lighter" round being used for them during WWII. Ya know, can't believe what you hear...

Is it true? Why?

Bullsh. They both use the exact same round. All in their head.

Still, I will say this on the record: I don't like how an EI can stand there and take 12-15 rounds from my SMG before collapsing.

Some server lag. Some you lag. Some him lag. FWIW from a direct server connect cross town we see deaths in milliseconds from the fire event.

[vasduten1]

Ah, thanks for putting the "G43 lighter round" myth to rest, and server lag explains that scenario pretty well.

Glad we had this talk.

[GOPHUR]

Always glad to help when I can.

[DOC]

There is a problem with some KIA (victim) reporting MIA at despawn. This is not due to the "kill awarded to shooter does not always equal a death to the victim" scenario (which is correct as Gophur notes) but is instead something broken in the despawn score update.

Still investigating.

[bronco69]

This is a war simulation and not an arcade shooter. You know this as you've been here for a while. One of the differences is that we use a military style vehicle kill system.

Kills are not deaths.

When you shoot a plane's wing off and the pilot parachutes to safety your high command awards you a kill for effectively removing that enemy (plane) from battle. You get to paint a hash on your cockpit wall.

For infantry this tends to translate a little odd and we're working on the presentation but the effect will be the same.

He got a kill on you because he mortally wounded you. The simulation looked at your bleed out rate and brain oxygen and a whole bunch of other factors and determined that if this we're real life and you couldn't spawn out then you were going to die. Or at minimum be critically wounded, out of the fight, in triage.

The enemy gets a kill on you.

Whether or not you actually die is irrelevant.

lulz ...

sorry had to laugh

[DOC]

why ?

[fox403]

ok just played panny at fb bitsburg,,ei came running at me mg fired him seen blood splats he lay in grass 10 secs later got up started running so finished off my mg round into him lay down again ,,,then got up started running again all the time blood splats,, next 3 inf mg them and they died the way they should but first one 15 feet away shot him for over a min so not lag...got the kill on all 4,,thoughts

[fox403]

just to add to it ,,as was getting mg fire on him he moved from left right and switched his run pattern wasnt just shadow ghost run ( traveling on after death cam) Lnc Corp Collywob

is dudes name

Edited December 2, 2011 by Fox403

[branko]

That is correct functionality. Kills do not equal deaths. He got a kill on you because you received a critical if not treated, mortal wound. The fact that you crawled around a bit more doesn't change the fact that you are a casualty of war and your getting a purple heart.

This reflects how kills are awarded in the military. Most arcade shooters have 1 to 1 k/d and we could do more to explain or show how we do ours but for now this is expected functionality.

Then you need to look at it in some detail, GOPHUR.

You can receive a very bad - but not critical - wound as inf (rifle), have the kill credit given to the other player, but not be in danger of dying. You can play permanently with the slightly red/greyed screen.

I did this on a couple of occasions during the BETA (NOT Axis v USA event).

NOTE: I think the game may have always behaved this way, but in the beta you are alerted to the fact that someone killed you via text-chat ... In the live game version you only know you have been killed when you despawn ...

... Worth checking to see whether the BETA "killed you" messages were correct and/or whether there is an issue with bad, but not life-threatening injuries getting kill rewards.

[chayne]

As INF dead is dead, and wounded is wounded.

[mrblue]

Maybe the Rats server needs more RAM..