Albert-Bapaume Fb bugged can't be destroyed by PARAS

[fxmmauser]

Today was trying to destroy fb with a couple of paras rifleman and smg but it would not take damage initially it did take on VEH but not inf.

Took a opel to rearm paras but again no damage despite the number of satchels placed spawned engineer to try to see if it was from paras but got first 20033 and 40110 or something like that and was forced to disconnect.

[bigrow]

I don't think this is a bug.

Paras have a HEAT satchel. Engineers now use HE satchels, removing their use as a AT unit.

So FBs are, i think, now only intended to be destroyable with HE satchels.

It's a shame that paras have lost this ability, but the reverse side is that engineers should be more readily available now that they aren't used to hunt tanks.

[fxmmauser]

I don't think this is a bug.

Paras have a HEAT satchel. Engineers now use HE satchels, removing their use as a AT unit.

So FBs are, i think, now only intended to be destroyable with HE satchels.

It's a shame that paras have lost this ability, but the reverse side is that engineers should be more readily available now that they aren't used to hunt tanks.

You are wrong ! Paras have a HE satchel only atr para has a HEAT satchel

[bigrow]

Ok i didn't know that.

I guess that's another unit that can't kill tanks then

[company0]

Or the para satchels are Mis-labelled.

[fxmmauser]

Still looking to know if it was a problem from FB or satchel from paras.

HEAT and HE satchels should both damage equally a fb in my opinion.

[GOPHUR]

Only HE satchels can damage FBs. HEAT cannot.

[fxmmauser]

Only HE satchels can damage FBs. HEAT cannot.

1 - Why?

2 - Why can't Heat destroy both FBs and Tanks?

Having ATR only being able to carry one satchel and para only one too is already a big penalty to make players choose engineer for FB bust, allowing HEAT to blow tanks and FBs would just create more content and PARA FB busting the content that it generates is too great to be simply discarded.

FB's will always need to be destroyed in order to attack or improve defense(=content) so giving more ways to take down fbs with penalties of increasing time and player requirements will just multiply the potential content generation. Paras need to be able to SAP FBs [period]

Edited December 6, 2011 by fxmmauser

[actrade]

Only HE satchels can damage FBs. HEAT cannot.

Any rationale behind this change? Dropping paras on an FB that is heavily defended and just needs a few more charges, especially at night, was quite fun and I hate to see it go.

[DOC]

We'll have to test this out to make sure it is not being misreported.

Points to consider:-

Paratroops carry HEAT satchels to mimic the gamon bomb/anti-tank mine loadout that they frequently jumped with in reality.

We made FB's damaged by HE only (as in ENGINEER class) because we are changing the game in this aspect to create an engineer role we can expand upon.

ie: specialisation

Whenever a change is made, and the final goodness of such change is never visible if incremental steps are made towards that goal while we are still at the first step ... however change always means those who liked the way it was before the change will be unhappy. One could argue that if EVERY infantry type could destroy FB's that this would be better, but it wouldn't allow us to build on any specialisation of the class that has this role.

Perhaps what you are really asking for is paratroop engineers, originally the decision was made to not have paratroop engineers for some (we thought) valid reasons.

PS: you can still blow the "invisible FB tent" (veh) if you place the satchels on the ground where the tent would be if it were not invisible (you can use the map for this) ... it is in effect there it just isn't drawing. We are debugging this as I write.

[GOPHUR]

1 - Why?

2 - Why can't Heat destroy both FBs and Tanks?

Couple reasons. First, realism says that HEAT weapons aren't demolitin charges.

Second the ATR's job is to kill tanks and the engineers job is to build and destroy things.

Having ATR only being able to carry one satchel and para only one too is already a big penalty to make players choose engineer for FB bust,

Engineers are supposed to be chosen for FB bust.

allowing HEAT to blow tanks and FBs would just create more content and PARA FB busting the content that it generates is too great to be simply discarded.

There's a reason there isn't a para engineer. But we're kinda getting off topic here. There is a bigger picture plan to expand the engineer role and the AT INF role. Those roles do not cross pollinate.

FB's will always need to be destroyed in order to attack or improve defense(=content) so giving more ways to take down fbs with penalties of increasing time and player requirements will just multiply the potential content generation. Paras need to be able to SAP FBs [period]

There's a good case to be made for that. Would you trade their tank killin ability (heat satchel) for a demolition charge or would you add a weapon to another unit or another unit?

[GOPHUR]

Pfft. What DOC said.

[actrade]

As designed and taking a fun aspect of the game away I think is the real question here. Many heroic FB busts have been done with paras. I've also been involved in many glider attacks with sapper/engineers. If as intended, just hate to see the last ditch, para FB bust go, that's all.

[calwatta]

I'll just need to conjure up some more epic glider assaults.

I personally think though that whether or not HEAT is meant for demolition..they're just tents.

Perhaps different tiers of FB could be 'constructed' That would negate the HEAT ability to topple over a few tents as it 'historically' ( realistically) should do.

All this goes back to my blah blah blah posts about different types of specialist brigades and battalions attachable to divisions and brigades.

ie: if the division occupying the town has a engineer brigade attached to it or the brigade has a engineer battalion attached to it then an improved FB would be automatically placed accordingly at all viable positons blah blah..

[fxmmauser]

I don't want a para engineer nor did I intend to state every inf class should be able to destroy a FB no need to go extreme with what I said.

I WANT 1.33 SATCHEL FOR PARAS (dual purpose satchel) according to:

To take out an fb with PARAS on 1.33 was already hard(or Very hard) you need at least 12 PARAS to LAND Safely and place satchels on all correct places the chances of this happening is already very low, By adding Bofors on the fb, EA, a Bad pilot(doesn't turn engine off, drops too far or too high) and that most PARAS are noobies and considering this is an undamaged FB the changes for success are less than 1%.

In some cases it's impossible to destroy an FB with Engineers when there is enough supply, FB is set on an open terrain and has active defenders, in this case paratroops may be the only chance.

Why there should be no specialization on the paratroopers? And why a generalization and future customization is preferable.

Army and Paratroopers need to be seen differently first to really have paradrops you need a player pilot then you need paratroopers (below 5 paras the drops are useless.)

An enemy can see were paras landed and can head to that position therefore paratroopers needs to have more weapons to improve at least their survival, we must remember that a player after landing on the ground already wasted time waiting on the plane to leave and still endure the flight to actually see any action, giving the same equipment as army will just make him die easily.

So having more weapons will at least improve his odds currently the reason why there are usually a good number of recruits on paradrops is because good players know that its hard to get any kills already therefore its better and more enjoyable staying on ground.(Not enough incentive to join)

I believe if you ever are able to customize your load ups this would be reserve only for paras with no discrimination of rank and on the army it would be only allowed to high ranked players. (It would be more attractive to go PARA and it would be also realistic)

Realism (I know CRS knows this its only to force them into perspective)

Paratroopers were better train had more equipment one soldier could have a smg, nades and panzerfaust/explosive among other equipment and usually carry more supplies and ammo. They had all of this because they would usually be unable to be supplied by other means or would face enemy with superior numbers that could consist of enemy infantry, tanks and fortifications.

- Placing a HEAT satchel on a real life wooden pole would destroy it!

- Placing a HEAT satchel on a ten would open a hole and probably start a fire

What I want is 1.33 SATCHEL FOR PARAS(dual purpose satchels) or if that's hard to do, make HEAT Satchels damage FBs maybe reduce the number of engineers per brigade think its 50 and set it to 30, engineer would still be the chosen equipment because of its 4 satchels but in case the list was empty ATR could help finish the job despite being harder to .

In the years I played this game I seen recruits subscribe and praise the paratroopers and is one of the gems of this game cutting one of their roles: FB busting from their abilities will just substrate some of those WOW unscripted moments that makes this game shine.

Please take some more time to reconsider this change on the office

FXM

[GOPHUR]

We don't have dual purpose satchels anymore.

Each satchel has a name. FBs only take damage from one named object. That object is now a demolition charge.

Have to pick.

Edited December 7, 2011 by GOPHUR

[fxmmauser]

We don't have dual purpose satchels anymore.

Each satchel has a name. FBs only take damage from one named object. That object is now a demolition charge.

Have to pick.

FEGELEIN!

Add a HE satchel to para then, he would carry now a HEAT and HE this will resolve this issue and avoid ATR being able to sap FB's while making Paratroopers more useful.

[calwatta]

FEGELEIN!

Add a HE satchel to para then, he would carry now a HEAT and HE this will resolve this issue and avoid ATR being able to sap FB's while making Paratroopers more useful.

Id say that about sorts it out.