new tank

[mudd152]

just thought it might make the game a little more interesting with a few new tanks.

[Hinfoos]

well..well..well....

if we only had thought of that before

[mudd152]

lol im serious tho there were more than this amount in ww2 but im glad they have so many actual tanks that were used in the war. good game none the less.

[Hinfoos]

lol im serious tho there were more than this amount in ww2 but im glad they have so many actual tanks that were used in the war. good game none the less.

been waiting for a new tank myself since january 08....

think the tiger, churchill was added just before that.

i have only seen a few modified planes

not that that fun planes either..lol

[fxmmauser]

Allies have way more tanks than axis and they are overpower compared to axis:

M10 Tank hunter 45 APHE(HEAT) rounds , 10 HE rounds Top Hatch 50.cal / STUG G 40 AP, 14 HE no lmg top hatch

Sherman 75mm 82 APHE rounds!!!, no AP, 15 HE / PZ IV D only 26 HEAT(APHE), 30 HE, 24 AP

Only two axis armor have HEAT none have over 30 rounds and its quite more difficult to make it detonate plus both guns which fire the HEAT are very unnaccurated due to short barrel.

The panther and the STUG without the armor skirts and the hatch lmg is big hole in this game in terms of balance and realism.

[timmy41]

This thread is irrelevant to this forum.

Stop crying, the german 75mm guns are much better than the allied equivalents, and significantly more accurate.

HEAT is irrelevant since it is worthless in any tank engagement past 500m.

There is no panther in the game, so I don't even know why you say that.

Side skirts would make absolutely no difference in survivability against any round above 20mm, would add weight, profile, and be blown off easily from any explosion.

[narg]

This thread is irrelevant to this forum.

Stop crying, the german 75mm guns are much better than the allied equivalents, and significantly more accurate.

HEAT is irrelevant since it is worthless in any tank engagement past 500m.

There is no panther in the game, so I don't even know why you say that.

Side skirts would make absolutely no difference in survivability against any round above 20mm, would add weight, profile, and be blown off easily from any explosion.

Wait? HEAT is irrelveant because it's worthless in any tank engagement past 500m? So where were you a month ago when I was complaining about how Bazookas could kill at ranges exceeding their historical usefulness. CRS posted a crap load of articles about shaped charges in response.

Or does the shaped charge argument only work for Allied equipment and all Axis equipment is subject to the flaws of declining muzzle velocity. Even though the penetration values for the shell should be exactly the same at all ranges.

The issue with the Axis HEAT round on the 75mm L/24 is the fact that it's an early war HEAT round and is incapable of penetrating the Matty's armour except at the perfect angle if you can hit the matty from a position where you are located above it.

If it was a later war HEAT model, we'd have people whining about how unrealistic it is that the Panzer IV can kill a Matty.

Oh and how come our StuGs and Panzer IVGs don't get the later war 75mm HEAT round? I've often wondered that. Because they were capable of firing HEAT.

[timmy41]

Wait? HEAT is irrelveant because it's worthless in any tank engagement past 500m? So where were you a month ago when I was complaining about how Bazookas could kill at ranges exceeding their historical usefulness. CRS posted a crap load of articles about shaped charges in response.

Or does the shaped charge argument only work for Allied equipment and all Axis equipment is subject to the flaws of declining muzzle velocity. Even though the penetration values for the shell should be exactly the same at all ranges.

The issue with the Axis HEAT round on the 75mm L/24 is the fact that it's an early war HEAT round and is incapable of penetrating the Matty's armour except at the perfect angle if you can hit the matty from a position where you are located above it.

If it was a later war HEAT model, we'd have people whining about how unrealistic it is that the Panzer IV can kill a Matty.

Oh and how come our StuGs and Panzer IVGs don't get the later war 75mm HEAT round? I've often wondered that. Because they were capable of firing HEAT.

Go ahead and lob your low velocity HEAT rounds at me from 1k while I'm putting nice holes in your tank with my high velocity APHE.

HEAT rounds inherently must be low velocity, and inaccurate due to their function; if they spun they would be completely ineffective.

You can also go ahead and spend all day lobbing HEAT rockets at my tank from 500m if you'd like, because before the first round even hits the ground you'll be dead.

Yes HEAT is effective at all ranges when it hits, range is irrelevant to its penetration, but only if it hits.

I don't even know what you're trying to say with that second paragraph, care to actually articulate an actual argument instead, you know, with something to back it up?

Why is it wrong that the 7.5cm l/24 HEAT cant penetrate most of a matty in game? That is exactly how it was in real life; I've already been over this several times, I'm not going to bother posting it again, do your own research. Later war HEAT model? What? Did the laws of physics change during the course of the war? Or do you want CRS to add a hypothetical or round that didn't exist yet to an earlier tier?

The GR 38 (HEAT) rounds for the kwk 40 was horribly inaccurate, and at any ranges at which it would penetrate more than an AP round, it was significantly less likely to hit. It even had less than half the muzzle velocity, just think how slower it would be downrange compared to the more aerodynamically shaped and hefty PzGr. 39 rounds we use now? In the time it takes it to land on a target over 1k away, the enemy will have probably landed 3 hits on you.

So go ahead, ask for the HEAT round, maybe you'll get it in the limited numbers that would represent its incredible rarity (because the Germans realized it was worthless). It wouldn't even be useful against churchills frontally at any range. Any tankers out their worth their salt will continue to use the vastly superior APHE.

[ratatosk]

wow, somebody seems to have stepped on Timmeh's sunburned nuts when he said HEAT was useless was beyond 500m which defies the entire point of it's purpose. Then he got into an accuracy rant, sorry, no save, you said something stupid, no recovery from that.

In the current WW2OL version, the stug and IVD HEAT rounds do not just drift all over the place like they used to. Their effectiveness depends on where they hit and at what angle, but they are only OF MUCH USE at over 500m vs AP.

And the reason that the Matty is indestructible for the most part is that it has spaced armor. That was part of the point of putting skirts on German tanks, they were designed to be torn off.

But, Timmeh, as a former CRS intern who was undoubtedly given all of the horrible details about the CRS modeling framework, please explain why an AP round from a stugB or a IVd has to be ranged in 20% further than an HE or HEAT round? I understand the whole lower velocity thing with the later 75mm panzers where it is exactly the opposite, but this does not compute.

[company0]

But, you have to look at a few other factors. Honestly? Allied tanks seem to beat most german tanks in this ahistorical game we play. Why? Because its impossible to model the disadvantages of the heavily armored matilda, the fast and quick S35. Inversely, it is possible to model the faster but less armored german tanks. Lack of infantry defense weapon on the Stug. The situations that would allow speed to make a difference are not in this game since defenders spawn instantly at their defense, and attackers pretty much drive in a generalized arrow at an objective, time sink wise not being worth to flank.

Copied from the thread in the motor pool for relevance.

[timmy41]

wow, somebody seems to have stepped on Timmeh's sunburned nuts when he said HEAT was useless was beyond 500m which defies the entire point of it's purpose. Then he got into an accuracy rant, sorry, no save, you said something stupid, no recovery from that.

In the current WW2OL version, the stug and IVD HEAT rounds do not just drift all over the place like they used to. Their effectiveness depends on where they hit and at what angle, but they are only OF MUCH USE at over 500m vs AP.

And the reason that the Matty is indestructible for the most part is that it has spaced armor. That was part of the point of putting skirts on German tanks, they were designed to be torn off.

But, Timmeh, as a former CRS intern who was undoubtedly given all of the horrible details about the CRS modeling framework, please explain why an AP round from a stugB or a IVd has to be ranged in 20% further than an HE or HEAT round? I understand the whole lower velocity thing with the later 75mm panzers where it is exactly the opposite, but this does not compute.

HEAT is at a massive disadvantage in tank engagements because of the reasons I already explained, perhaps you ought to read them again. It is INACCURATE, it is SLOW thus contributing to its inaccuracy due to its trajectory, it is no more useful to high velocity guns than an AP round.

Accuracy is an enormous factor in the effectiveness of guns, to say that it is stupid is to only show how delusionally ignorant you are of basic concepts of a gun. The goal in eliminating an enemy tank is to hit first, hit harder, and hit more often; two of those three can not be done without accuracy and precision.

The HEAT round only gives an advantage to low velocity guns like the L/24, which is not designed for fighting tanks. It is designed to lob large HE shells at fortified positions. In order to pack as much HE in to a round as possible, one must compromise on the thickness of the walls of the round, and thus the amount of stress the round itself can take when firing, thus the round must have a lower firing velocity. The same concept is plainly visible in many guns.

This would also explain why the AP round is so inept; it is much heavier (about 40% heavier), the barrel is very short giving little time for the gas to expand to its maximum efficiency, and the charge can not be made much larger for the size of the gun, in fact it probably was not any larger at all. The AP round travels more slowly, only about 380m/s. Guess what, that's about a 16% difference! WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED?

Again, fighting tanks was not in any way the objective of stugs or even early IV series pzs, they were meant to support infantry in close combat. The HEAT round was added to their arsenals (in very limited numbers, less than we are given in game currently, in fact it was upped from an accurate number to what we have now some time ago) so that these tanks could combat other tanks when the Germans learned that they would inevitably run in to other tanks. HEAT only has an advantage in guns that are not high velocity, and that is only because the AP rounds of medium to low velocity guns have abysmal performance to high velocity guns (did you learn how much velocity factors in to kinetic energy in class yet?). Adding the GR38 to the L/43 and 48 would not give them any advantage at all, those guns are already better than their allied counterparts, the situations in which they would offer an advantage would be so few that an overly massive majority of the time the rounds would do nothing but take up otherwise useful storage for the superior pzgr. 39, and hopefully by then, pzgr. 40.

The skirts were not designed to counter HEAT rounds, the Germans had barely encountered any HEAT rounds by then, I have never even read anything regarding that except one anecdote by a veteran out of hindsight while still admitting they were not even concerned about it. They had however learned that the Russian ATRs and small ATGs could easily make a bad day for the thin sided Panzers, so they begun to, like the crews of every nation that used tanks, modify and add on armor. The Germans just managed to take it a step further and standardize the practice for a relatively brief period. There is little evidence to even show that they were effective against HEAT rounds for two reasons; Documentation of panzers equipped with skirts being hit by HEAT rounds is so negligible one could not make a conclusion either way, and the skirts were mere millimeters thin, so thin they would not have even triggered HEAT rounds from cannons.

[fxmmauser]

What piss me off is why does the sherman 75mm has only APHE rounds?! why no AP!(the sherman tanks had AP-T rounds when they landed on D-Day) This is not realistic and not balance the PZ IVD has only 26 HEAT rounds and the sherman has 82 APHE?! the PZ IV D due to short barrel will miss most of the shots and even if he hits it must be at an angle to detonate and then it must hit any crew, the AP rounds are useless most will just bounce and will not penetrate dunno why we have so many of them.

HE - LOL we can't even blow up a cp or building by using all HE rounds ! XD, you can also land a HE 1m away for an ei it won't do **** so the game can't even model the purpose and efficiency assault guns had.

With a PZ IV D you are grey you will be seen easily, you have only 26 rounds that can kill an ET but at medium and long ranges 70% will not hit the target a player using the D must advance very slow must be always scanning the battlefield and must think before shooting and maybe not even shoot at all and if HEAT depletes he must retreat.

While the sherman 75mm can shoot as much has he wants his rounds are all deadlier than all axis AP rounds, I never have run out of ammo while playing has a sherman tank, it can take out frontally the gunner of every axis tank can easily taken out the gunner frontally with APHE, your tank is hard to spot since your green is the same has all bushes and trees, you tank is not noisy.

[timmy41]

While the sherman 75mm can shoot as much has he wants his rounds are all deadlier than all axis AP rounds, I never have run out of ammo while playing has a sherman tank, it can take out frontally the gunner of every axis tank can easily taken out the gunner frontally with APHE, your tank is hard to spot since your green is the same has all bushes and trees, you tank is not noisy.

The front of the turret of a 4G is only 50mm thick, that is not very much at all. The front of the hull is 80mm thick. Both are within 10 degrees of vertical.

The 75mm M2 L/31 APCBC (What we call APHE) can penetrate 50mm well past 1.5km. It will not however penetrate that front hull past 1k, and only that at a good angle, just a 15 degree offset of the frontal armor lowers that to 600m.

The 7.5cm KwK 40 L/43 PzGr. 39 APCBC (labeled AP in game) can penetrate the effective 68mm of frontal armor on the M4A2 out past 1.5k, and at minimum 1k at the worst angle one would reasonably shoot the front instead of the side. The 50mm front plate is at 47 degrees. The turret on a sherman has far superior armor compared to a 4G; not only is it thicker, but it is very well rounded. One must be within 600m and have a good angle to penetrate the turret of a sherman with this gun.

Obviously the 4G was not the crazy awesome tank later in the war that the history channel and other jokes claim it to be; it was mediocre. The sherman was a significantly better tank than it has a reputation for, it was actually a good tank, and better than the 4G in quite a few ways, and became a contendable counterpart to things as powerful as the tiger by late 44.

The 4G does have some other great advantages though; it can effectively fight at ranges far beyond the shermans own effective range. Its optics are superior, the ranging is superior, and the gun has better accuracy and penetration. The L/43 and /48s are better guns than the best tank mounted guns the allies have to offer currently, only the 17lber, a very large easy to spot and destroy ATG, is significantly better, and even that is not as good as the PAK40.

The 4G has the ability to make a sherman, even a sherman 76, fight on its own terms; but only if the tanker is smart enough to do it. When the sherman is able to get within its own effective range, it becomes an even battle.

[timmy41]

What piss me off is why does the sherman 75mm has only APHE rounds?! why no AP!(the sherman tanks had AP-T rounds when they landed on D-Day) This is not realistic and not balance the PZ IVD has only 26 HEAT rounds and the sherman has 82 APHE?! the PZ IV D due to short barrel will miss most of the shots and even if he hits it must be at an angle to detonate and then it must hit any crew, the AP rounds are useless most will just bounce and will not penetrate dunno why we have so many of them.

HE - LOL we can't even blow up a cp or building by using all HE rounds ! XD, you can also land a HE 1m away for an ei it won't do **** so the game can't even model the purpose and efficiency assault guns had.

With a PZ IV D you are grey you will be seen easily, you have only 26 rounds that can kill an ET but at medium and long ranges 70% will not hit the target a player using the D must advance very slow must be always scanning the battlefield and must think before shooting and maybe not even shoot at all and if HEAT depletes he must retreat.

I've already explained why there are so few HEAT rounds for the IV and stug, go read the posts. I've also already explained why they are so inaccurate. I've also already addressed the issue of adding rounds that were not in use yet or would be fantasy.

[mudd152]

wow not what i expected to see this morning lol it was just a friendly suggestion not a thread about me whining that one sides tanks are biased and better than the other...i just thought that a little more diversity would be good for the game.

[Hinfoos]

wow not what i expected to see this morning lol it was just a friendly suggestion not a thread about me whining that one sides tanks are biased and better than the other...i just thought that a little more diversity would be good for the game.

its not you, its like usual..

you should see the regular forum.

guess you can only see some of it

[fxmmauser]

I've already explained why there are so few HEAT rounds for the IV and stug' date=' go read the posts. I've also already explained why they are so inaccurate. I've also already addressed the issue of adding rounds that were not in use yet or would be fantasy.[/quote']

You continue to avoid by real questions and facts!

- You haven't explain why there is no AP for the Sherman 75mm ? and why so few HE rounds?

- Why every bush has the same color like the sherman or Churchill(the Stug was suppose to be camouflage tank but with the new bushes that does not occur at all)

- Why the M10 ( tank hunter ) has a defence lmg and the Stug G doesn't.

What I want to say is that PZ IV D and STUG D have no role on this game has anti tank and almost none against Inf expect for the PZ 4D due to lmg therefore if the game can't implement their role in the game maybe they should adjust their role has a tank vs tank for now by adding more HEAT and taking out AP and HE.

I don't know if you play axis but It's impossible to penetrate the front turret of a sherman and kill the gunner or disable his gun at 200m at least this is purely based on playing the game, the game has no tools that allow me to know what range it was or what angle so I can't give you facts but I don't remember killing sherman gunners at front turret at short, medium and far ranges I must always hit them from sides always!

I'm not complaining about the panzer IV having less turret armor than a Sherman I'm simply giving the facts and putting into perspective that show that the sherman is way to overpowered compared to what the axis had to counter with and do not represent the challenge a sherman faced.

And the sherman didn't really struggle with PZ IV G it struggled with Tiger, STUG G(late), Panther, Jadgpanzer, hetzer and the panzerfausts.

Most of the axis footage on france after d-day show the late STUG with armor skirts and above all the defense lmg which already would improve the efficiency of this tank.

Edited December 19, 2011 by fxmmauser

[timmy41]

wow not what i expected to see this morning lol it was just a friendly suggestion not a thread about me whining that one sides tanks are biased and better than the other...i just thought that a little more diversity would be good for the game.

None of those posts are directed at you, but this thread isn't in the right forum. However some people insist on calling their own experiences from incompetence fact, then decide to come here to whine about it, and whine even more when they are corrected. Don't become a victim of the simpletons.

[timmy41]

You continue to avoid by real questions and facts!

Wrong, you are attempting to justify your beliefs by nitpicking with anecdotes and your own experience; both of which would be at the very bottom of the value if information in any kind of actual study of the information. I have corrected them with facts.

- You haven't explain why there is no AP for the Sherman 75mm ? and why so few HE rounds?

I've already explained the AP part here. I don't disagree with the ineptness of the larger HE, it should be done better. But it is very important that you realize that historically, HE rounds below 120mm were inept and ineffective, often less effective than a hand grenade. I have to leave in a few minutes so I'll not bother searching for the study, but ask scotsman or search his posts for the study on the effectiveness of HE rounds and you'll have all the information you'll need. The L/24 HE round is notably different because it was low velocity, thinner walled, and thus had much more HE than a normal 75mm round.

- Why every bush has the same color like the sherman or Churchill(the Stug was suppose to be camouflage tank but with the new bushes that does not occur at all)

That is an issue that should be fixed, and is significantly better with the new color pallets involving more brighter greens and lighter browns. Back in 2006 the colors of the bushes and trees were very ideal for the German tanks, they changed.

- Why the M10 ( tank hunter ) has a defence lmg and the Stug G doesn't.

This is also something that should be fixed, if you ever bothered to even search anything related to stug and lmg on this forum I bet you'll find plenty of posts regarding that, many of them dating back years from me alone.

What I want to say is that PZ IV D and STUG D have no role on this game has anti tank and almost none against Inf expect for the PZ 4D due to lmg therefore if the game can't implement their role in the game maybe they should adjust their role has a tank vs tank for now by adding more HEAT and taking out AP and HE.

The 4D and stugD were NOT MEANT FOR FIGHTING TANKS. They are extremely good at fighting tanks when used properly, the stug can even resist a shot from a 2lber as close as 100m!

I don't know if you play axis but It's impossible to penetrate the front turret of a sherman and kill the gunner or disable his gun at 200m at least this is purely based on playing the game, the game has no tools that allow me to know what range it was or what angle so I can't give you facts but I don't remember killing sherman gunners at front turret at short, medium and far ranges I must always hit them from sides always!

It is possible, go test it. Create a second account, go to the training server, and test it.

I'm not complaining about the panzer IV having less turret armor than a Sherman I'm simply giving the facts and putting into perspective that show that the sherman is way to overpowered compared to what the axis had to counter with and do not represent the challenge a sherman faced.

It is not overpowered, they are equal fighters below 800m, and the sherman has an advantage in urban fighting due to its turret speed and several other minor factors.

And the sherman didn't really struggle with PZ IV G it struggled with Tiger, STUG G(late), Panther, Jadgpanzer, hetzer and the panzerfausts.

Most of the axis footage on france after d-day show the late STUG with armor skirts and above all the defense lmg which already would improve the efficiency of this tank

Tell that to the tank crews who fought against 4F2s in Africa.

[fxmmauser]

Wrong, you are attempting to justify

...

Tell that to the tank crews who fought against 4F2s in Africa.

You just agree with everything I said timmy41, it's not based on only my experiences it's based on hundreds of players experience I witness in more than 5 years and even playing 1.5 campaign allied to make sure I was not wrong.

Stug D can be killed at 0 to 2000m just by hitting the deployed turret and kill the gunner XD.

AP from Pz IVD and Stug D have no effect on tanks except scout cars

Africa and France post d-day is completely different.

I'm lobbing for players ability to see the damage model post sortie and I was also resuming all axis tank problems vs allies so this new member can have more knowledge of the current situation, plus CRS has too much work on theirs hands so bringing this problems once in a while will at least make sure they don't forget them.

Has I mention in the first post

Panther and Late STUG G would be a welcome addition can't remember the last vehicle axis got, must have been at least 5 years ago while the Allies got the US P-38F this year.

It would be awesome if we got them in a new last tier, allies could get maybe a slightly increase in their tanks while we got a hand of those panther or any other toy like the hetzer, puma, jagdpanzers would all help revamp this game and increase tenacious(epic) attacks and defenses

But again if we couldn't spawn those tanks on all cps there would only promote camp fests which would be more damaging for the axis and would not revamp the game.

According to CRS those new tanks will only come after they fixed 1.34 and improve the UI which I think is a must before we get those new tanks, according to them 1.35 will be about improving the handling and make more user friendly using tanks/guns and vehicles, maybe they will add some then or after 1.35.

(think that is your answer there)

Edited December 19, 2011 by fxmmauser
reply to timmy

[timmy41]

You just agree with everything I said timmy41, it's not based on only my experiences it's based on hundreds of players experience I witness in more than 5 years and even playing 1.5 campaign allied to make sure I was not wrong.

Stug D can be killed at 0 to 2000m just by hitting the deployed turret and kill the gunner XD.

AP from Pz IVD and Stug D have no effect on tanks except scout cars

Africa and France post d-day is completely different.

I'm lobbing for players ability to see the damage model post sortie and I was also resuming all axis tank problems vs allies so this new member can have more knowledge of the current situation, plus CRS has too much work on theirs hands so bringing this problems once in a while will at least make sure they don't forget them.

Has I mention in the first post

Panther and Late STUG G would be a welcome addition can't remember the last vehicle axis got, must have been at least 5 years ago while the Allies got the US P-38F this year.

It would be awesome if we got them in a new last tier, allies could get maybe a slightly increase in their tanks while we got a hand of those panther or any other toy like the hetzer, puma, jagdpanzers would all help revamp this game and increase tenacious(epic) attacks and defenses

But again if we couldn't spawn those tanks on all cps there would only promote camp fests which would be more damaging for the axis and would not revamp the game.

According to CRS those new tanks will only come after they fixed 1.34 and improve the UI which I think is a must before we get those new tanks, according to them 1.35 will be about improving the handling and make more user friendly using tanks/guns and vehicles, maybe they will add some then or after 1.35.

(think that is your answer there)

I didn't agree with all of that, your reading comprehension is abysmal.

Of course a turret with an open hole in the front can be penetrated, there wouldn't even be anything at that point to stop the round. But go ahead and test it for viability; test under perfect conditions how many rounds one must fire on average from 2k with a 2lber at a stug B with an open sight hatch in order to kill the gunner, then you'll have a comment worth saying.

I've already explained the AP of the L/24, stop beating a dead horse, again you're making a fool of yourself.

Of course they're completely different, but my example worked perfectly.

There are plenty of pictures of the damage models that one may find with half a brain and some effort. With just as much effort one can do their own testing and find the best ways to destroy any unit with different guns. Whether or not CRS is willing to release in depth pictures of every vehicle is something you would bring up with them, not me.

The h87, g6, f1, f2, spit 2b, hurri 2b, pak 40, 3 inch atg, 17lber, m4a3, and quite a few other weapons have been added in the past 3 years.

[fxmmauser]

Of course a turret with an open hole in the front can be penetrated, there wouldn't even be anything at that point to stop the round. But go ahead and test it for viability; test under perfect conditions how many rounds one must fire on average from 2k with a 2lber at a stug B with an open sight hatch in order to kill the gunner, then you'll have a comment worth saying.

...

The h87, g6, f1, f2, spit 2b, hurri 2b, pak 40, 3 inch atg, 17lber, m4a3, and quite a few other weapons have been added in the past 3 years.

Tell me who in his perfect sense would drive a Stug B frontally with no ability to fire, with only 24 heat, 100m way from a 2lb XD, you think the atg would keep firing on the same spot knowing the Stug B wont be able to open fire since his turret is not deployed, what are you a zombie did you ever use a stug B on the battlefield and killed anything with it more than once? (this is what you were saying!!)

3 Years ??! Only those aircraft were added, when this game was launched on Europe I'm pretty sure every current tank/truck/gun was already in game.

Stop trolling, achieving something on test server is not the same has on live and if you think that lag, packet loss.... has no influence on your AFV vs AFV gameplay you don't seem to play this game. There is a reason why the damage model is not accessible to players & it's because they are surely some flaws or some poorly Damage models, if there was a visual DM for the players it would end so much bias, trolling, reduce learning curve for rookies and increase subscriptions, teach some facts about those vehicles and so on...

Edited December 20, 2011 by fxmmauser

[sssnake]

Back on topic, I'd truly love to see a Maus or T100 in game, Just Once, to see how well it did in AFV vs AFV combat.

Thor Mortars and rail guns, other "Superweapons" wouldn't be practical since there were so few, but the ME262, HE163 and other aircraft would be excellent additions as well.

[timmy41]

Tell me who in his perfect sense would drive a Stug B frontally with no ability to fire, with only 24 heat, 100m way from a 2lb XD, you think the atg would keep firing on the same spot knowing the Stug B wont be able to open fire since his turret is not deployed, what are you a zombie did you ever use a stug B on the battlefield and killed anything with it more than once? (this is what you were saying!!)

I'm asking you to test your accusation for viability, if you don't want to, then you have nothing to stand on.

I've destroyed thousands of vehicles in this game, thousands of units with the stugs alone. I was regularly one of the top 3 tankers in the game when I tanked. Questioning my ability to tank further proves your inexperience and unwillingness to do even the most basic research.

3 Years ??! Only those aircraft were added, when this game was launched on Europe I'm pretty sure every current tank/truck/gun was already in game.

This game was launched in europe in 2001.

Stop trolling, achieving something on test server is not the same has on live and if you think that lag, packet loss.... has no influence on your AFV vs AFV gameplay you don't seem to play this game. There is a reason why the damage model is not accessible to players & it's because they are surely some flaws or some poorly Damage models, if there was a visual DM for the players it would end so much bias, trolling, reduce learning curve for rookies and increase subscriptions, teach some facts about those vehicles and so on...

You claim that since something is possible in testing it must be messed up, but now you say that if something is possible in testing, it isn't the same?

I've already accounted for combat conditions in my examples and the possibilities under the most ideal conditions. You have not, only throwing as much drivel out as possible hoping some of it sticks, sad really.

I've already addressed the rest of what you have said in posts in this thread.

Trolling? How is showing your foolishness, trolling? Or perhaps you've reached the end of your pitiful argument well so now you're down to fallacies.

Edited December 20, 2011 by timmy41

[sssnake]

I used a StugB yesterday killed 2 ET's and an ATG with it before having to despawn because a sapper was on me and i was detracked. Except for the lack of an MG, the StuG is a decent weapon.